Optima

[G.M.]

I had 2 Optima failures, one 4 or 5 years ago and one last weekend on a 1150 mile trip. The first one went dead with no signs of being weak, just rolled over and died. The second started about 300 miles into the trip. The engine always starts on the first turn, after lunch it turned three times very slow and I pushed the button again and the solenoid went click, click. I jumped it with the 12 volt battery pack, POS to ground and neg to the starter side of the solenoid. This pack has a switch to energize the cables. I got my wife to turn on the ignition and with the battery pack laying on pillow on the fender I got a hold of the carb linkage and turned the battery pack switch, it turned over, started and I shut the battery pack off. When I needed to get gas I parked at the end pump with the front of the car heading down hill and jumped started it most times, a few times I had to use the battery pack. Continued to Savannah,Ga. running for over two hours with the head lights on and the 6 volt alternator I made showing 7.5 volts in the day light and 7.4 with the lights on. Traveled 625 miles on Saturday. Sunday morning had to use the battery pack, couldn't get enough roll to kick over. Had 525 miles left and the battery was getting worse, I flicked the head light switch twice to let a trucker in and the engine shut off fast twice, the digital volt meter went black and the GPS cut off. So after that I used the hand for turn signals, the GPS worked and the engine never missed a beat the whole trip other then when the load was to great. The alternator charges at idle where the cut out on a generator cuts the generator off at low RPMs so I would never had made it with a generator. I removed the battery and it wouldn't take a charge and turned the charger to 12 volts and the area around the POS terminal got hot. I cut the top off the battery and the POS connection of the lead plates from the cell to the battery terminal arced off but made a weak connection across the arced parts. I measured the voltage from the NEG terminal to the arced ends of the POS plates down in the cell and got over 7 volts, hooked up a sealed beam head light and it lit up bright. I also had the battery that failed years ago but never got around to cutting it apart so we opened it up and the failure was exactly like the second one except as you can see in picture 0097 of the older battery after sittng for years every thing above the cells was corrioded. There was light corrosion on the newer one. There is a vent over near the POS terminal where both battery connections arced off. I haven't checked if it's just a vent or a valve but I think it's only a vent and the air with the acid corriods the lead. These are realy lead acid batteries. The cells look like a roll of paper towels with lead strips rapped in a fabric and soaked in acid. I don't know if the vent is to release pressure but if thats the case a light check valve would do that and keep the air out. The lead parts should be coated above the cells to keep the lead from erroiding. 0104 shows the external POS terminal held firmly in position so it wasn't twisted internaly. 0102 shows where the 7 or 8 plates attached to the POS terminal post arced off, not at the connection but in the area afected buy fumes. I'm not bad mouthing the Optima I still like them and if they last 4 years without acid damage I'm satisfied but I think there is room for improvment. I see the numbers didn't post with the pictures but you can figure them out. G.M.

[35 Woodie]

I guess I'm lucky as I've had a 6V Optima in my '35 woodie since August 2003 with no problems.

[chuck stevens]

I had one die, wouldn't take a charge. They replaced it and the new has been great. I guess they're eather good or junk. Chuck

[rotorwrench]

I've had several Optima batteries and they all failed the same way as your first one. One day good the next day dead. In the helicopters I maintain, we use both regular lead acid and the sealed maintenance free lead acid types. The regular types last just a little longer than the sealed types but the sealed ones cost more. Sealed ones have to be used when installed inside the cabin and no sump jar is provided so in that configuration you have no choice about which one you use.

The Optima gives a very good cranking capacity but I don't know if it's worth the extra money. You just have to get lucky to get a good one that will really last. Kind of like a lot of things now days!

Kerby

[Mr 42]

Since you have had two fail in similar way. Is it possible that the way its mounted lets vibrations thru the positive pole to cause it to break by metal fatigue???

Just a thought....

[19Fordy]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Here's some interesting info about OPTIMA batteries.They have gone south literally and figuratively.
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...mexico-215667/
I have found Walmart batteries to be quite good. There are only a few companies that make batteries - Johnson Controls being one of the major companies.

[gmc1941]

Nice looking engine, Jim what size battery is that and what did you use for a box? Gordon

[G.M.]

42 it isn't a vibration problem, it's the fumes from the acid eating the 7 or 8 lead cell strips that are thin and exposed to the fumes above the wet fabric that is soaked in acid. The oxygen from the vent hole which is near the POS internal connection causes the acid fumes to eat and thin down the lead to the point there isn't enough metal when the load of the starter is applied and seperates the lead plate ends not at but below the connection to the terminal post. Both I took apart were at the POS side near the vent and you can see burnt arc marks where they would carry a light load but arced more under a heavier load. This condition got worse after multible loads such as turn signals were repeated. I think near the end the the load was all carried by the 6 volt alternator. I don't know if the alternator was self exciting after it started charging or if it was getting tickled by the battery. Monday I will run one of the alternators on my test machine with about a 4 amp load which is just above the coil load and disconnect the battery and see if it charges. You can see the construction where the NEG terminal is connected and if the metal is thin there it's not noticeable. I will mic the thickness in that area and see. G.M.

[19Fordy]

Originally Posted by gmc1941

Nice looking engine, Jim what size battery is that and what did you use for a box? Gordon

Thank you. The battery box is a BOB DRAKE repro. bought about 20 years ago.The battery is 10 in long, 6 1/2 in wide and approx 7 1/2 in. tall. It does fit inside the battery box. Bought battery at Walmart 10/22/07. Still works fine. Base cost was $68.48 but then they added on the battery fee of $1.50. Core charge was $9 but I got that rebated when I returned old battery. Then there's 6% sales tax. So final cost of battery was $74.72. Battery is 12 volt and is called MAXX-24S.
Hope this helps. Here's the battery ID.

[PABob]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Here's some interesting info about OPTIMA batteries.They have gone south literally and figuratively.
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...mexico-215667/
I have found Walmart batteries to be quite good. There are only a few companies that make batteries - Johnson Controls being one of the major companies.

Johnson Controls makes about 90%of the batteries on the market today including Optima, Wal Mart, Sears Diehard and inerstate.

[Marv]

They evidently do not make Duralast batteries from Autozone. I have had good luck with them and the other ones mentioned are junk as far as my experience with them. Marv

[uncle buck]

Originally Posted by Marv

They evidently do not make Duralast batteries from Autozone. I have had good luck with them and the other ones mentioned are junk as far as my experience with them. Marv

I believe if you check a little closer you will find that JCI or Johnson Controls does make them and applies their private label for them. They also make a lot of Delco, Motorcraft, and Interstates batteries

[flatmotor40]

I've tried batteries from Autozone and Advance seem to be the same some work fine other last a year or two.Guess the bad ones made on FRi.or Monday

[Frank The Plumber]

4 or 5 years is all you get out of an Optima, after 5 years you should change your battery no matter who's it is or what type. You can maintain til failure or you can maintain to quality of operation, since this is a pleasure vehicle I maintain to operation quality. Put together a routine maintenance schedule so you get to enjoy your toys rather than have them fail on the road. All consumables, including ball joints, tie rod ends bushings bulbs should be maintained this way. Guys who run til failure on these old cars never do seem to smile much. If you have a 7 year old optima in your car you are due.

[Frank Miller]

I believe Johnson Controls is so widespread they have changed their name to Big Johnson Controls. Their marketing slogan, "When it's cold nothing starts 'em like a Big Johnson."

[40cpe]

Battery life is a crap-shoot in my experience. I had a Duralast in my coupe for 11 years and was still cranking fine but showed weak on a tester. On the other hand, I had a 6 month old Duralast die during a 150 mile trip. It was good when I started and when I went to start it after the trip it was completely dead.

[Marv]

I guess i have been lucky. All the Dralasts that i have had, has lasted longer than it was supposed to, but i never buy the cheap batteries. I have not bought any of the other brands for years. Marv

[oldf1guy]

I worked for Douglas Battery for 21 years, and yes JC is one of the bigger manufactures and they (like Douglas) make batteries for other compaines when they can't fill and order. Or they build them all if they can cut the other bids and get the contract, using the Autozone or O'rileys decoration. Another reason the positive terminal lugs could be burning off is that the engineers (prople they pay lots of money to in hopes of saving a little) (I never figured that out, but I'm just a dumb old hillbilly) keep cutting down on the amount of lead in the plate grid= less lead=more money. There is a positive side to this thinking and that is more plates=more plate surface for cold cranking amps. When I worked for Douglas I worked in the Grid Casting Dept. for 11 years. Back then the grids were cast by hand out of molten lead, and were VERY much thicker. One thing that happens when the thinner lugs of today are placed in the mold is called wash out. The pump is running to fast, or the lead is to hot, sometimes the mold has to much insulation and the added lead for the strap takes to long to cool this causes the lead lugs to wash out which makes them thinner. The thinner or washed out lugs can't handel the amps being produced by the plate surface and failure is not far away. Also the thinner plates allow for more plates per cell (more cold cranking power) but also puts them closer together in the battery case. This allows for more chance of an arc between neg. and pos. plates and that ain't good either. JMHO

[tom/illinois]

Thanks for the info oldf1guy. Like all big business they are always looking for ways to make something cheaper and put more dollars in their pocket. Quality is always sacrificed.

[4dFord/SC]

Originally Posted by tom/illinois

Thanks for the info oldf1guy. Like all big business they are always looking for ways to make something cheaper and put more dollars in their pocket. Quality is always sacrificed.

After working in banking for 27 years and surviving several mergers, it was my observation that management was always totally and absolutely committed to providing good products and customer service--just so long as it didn't cost them any more money.