Need some pre-restoration advice

[Leathernek]

Hey Guys,
I'm about to begin restoring my '29 Tudor (my first FULL restoration) and just wanted to know what books, materials, etc. you would recommend for some pre-restoration study/consultation. I have the model a mechanic's guide already, V1&2 just need to hear what ya'll recommend and to be pointed in the right direction.

thanks,
leathernek

[2manycars]

Lawyers say advice is worth what you pay for it, but here is mine for free. I would suggest the Restoration Guide and Judging Standards, the Paint and Finish Guide revision 3, and the Service Bulletins. I would also suggest studying cars that are restored properly, perhaps at a national or regional show. Good luck on your project. Take lots of photos.

[brianthelion02]

Pics pics pics and more pics!!

[700rpm]

Get Les Andrews's book. And here's some general advice: make drawings with notes in addition to your photos. You will be surprised at how much you forget over the course of a restoration, and the book will be a nice history of your work. Also establish a good system for cataloging, identifying, and storing parts and sub-assemblies. I used to use baby food jars, but have found Zip-Loc bags to be better. You can write on them and they don't break. And if you don't have a generous amount of shelving already,you can get some pretty cheap and sturdy systems at Home Depot or Lowe's, and you will find them very handy for storage.

[Bruce Adams]

Talk to Georgia MAF Club members to establish whether it pays to have the car evaluated by Georgia DMV at this stage, or whether someone might have to see the VIN with the body off, and other State Unique items.
There might also be vehicle value State tax issues that would differ before and after restoration.

[LukeDahlinger]

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Originally Posted by fordgarage

I would throw away the Model A Mechanics books/shop manuals v1,2,3.

+1

Good to see I'm not the only one who thinks the Les Andrews books are over rated.

An original Parts Price List for the period applicable to your car would be worth having, even if you're not going for fine point.

[Roadster62]

If this is your first restoration, I'd recommend that you set you goal as a nice driver, rather than a dead on perfect car. This way you are more likely to finish it and get to drive it is six years or so.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by brianthelion02

Pics pics pics and more pics!!

Make copies of the pics and place them on different media. My son lost alot of his pics when the home computer crashed. Lucky alot of them are on his web site but not all. Some are lost forever.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by 2manycars

I would also suggest studying cars that are restored properly, perhaps at a national or regional show. .

my son and I tried to see the cars up close after judging at the Dallas show but the members were not allowed in the same area as the cars.

[Kevin in NJ]

First answer the question of what is the Model A Ford? I have this silly idea that a restoration first requires one to have some idea of what the original was when it was 'original'.

There are way too many conceptions and wrong ideas floating around by word of mouth and by written word.

Once you have found out the Model A was an everyday car designed to run 60 MPH with precision manufacture of drive line parts you find a different tact in your restoration techniques. You can learn more by reading books such as 'The Legendary Model A Ford', Know Your Model A Ford, and 'Fordlandia'. The Legendary book gives real insight in just how everyday reliable the new Ford was when it was built. The Know Your A book gives an overview of the precision manufacturing used in building the A. The odd book here is Fordlandia. While it is about Fords grossly failed attempt to build a rubber plantation, the author details how Henry's quest for precision manufacturing caused a lot of problems in the change over to the Model A.

The service letters being reprinted by clubs are a nice insight into the sales and parts evolution. I believe it is in the Fargo letters where they urge the dealers to take the car out and show the customer the car can run 65 MPH and demonstrate the brakes and not to baby the car. A far cry from todays idea of not running over 45 MPH.

You have to be careful in believing all that you read. The shop manuals and other books have wrong information or just plain old do not tell you enough information to do the job properly. Seek out advice and look for information based on Ford prints. A quick example is one shop manual tells you that the steering sector is 1.125 in diameter when it is should be 1.1235 and this number had propagated into other places. The sad part is it has not been corrected in the years since the first printing.

As you deal with the nuts and bolts be warned. Ford used higher tolerance threads in many places. Cleaning the threads with tap or die will loosen the tolerance. Ford also hardened some nuts and they may be harder grade 8. Take a file to some of the spring nuts and if they Ford they will barely scratch. Rusty original nuts and bolts may be far better than any modern stuff from a functional view. Do not throw away any original hardware, even if it is slightly rusty. Some repro hardware is no wheres near the fit and function of the original.

Keep in mind I am not pushing for any fine points restoration. I am more interested in getting the car to drive like new and look decent. A fine points car that is just driven a few miles a year does not need to have a well restored chassis from the mechanical stand point.

[Terry, NJ]

Leatherneck, I'm a few months further down this road than you. My advice would be as already stated, Keep all the screws and bolts with the parts they go with or in a marked container. You will lose and confuse some! Digital cameras make it easy to photographically record things and cheap scrapbooks can hold the pics. I'm making some of my own wood so I only disassemble half of the car at once, that way, I can use the other side for a pattern. The books are almost good! But they fall short on necesssary details (At least some of them) Be wary of some drawings. I am looking at a dwg by wescottauto that is full of errors. I need a critcal frame dimension, but I can't trust it. (The drop or bend of the front "Horn". Is it 3 1/2" or 4"? ) Measuring the drop on the frame says 3 1/2, the pic says 4". The pic is wrong on many other things, so who do you trust? Finding reliable info ain't easy! Good Luck!
Terry

[jim1932]

What I have learned so far...and I am new too. Don't throw out anything. take digital pictures and print them on regular paper, that way you can write on the back. Take pictures in the middle of taking it apart, not just before oyu take it apart. (Oh and get a cheap digital that can just sit in the garage and if it gets screwed up you throw away. Try ot make a list of what you need early in the process. You may come across 4 door handles while oyu are focused on the motor, then never see another one when you work on the interior. That way you can also shop around a bit and figure out prices before you have to have the part. Lastley, and this took me a bit to get through my head... it is your car, it isn't a super rare "one of only 5 made". Do it the way you want. IF you don't have the time to get an original part, put on a part from drakes or MAC. You can always take it off later (obviously this does not go for door panels etc). The longer it sits waiting for parts the less fun it becomes.

[glenn in camino]

If you need a tool that you don't have, go buy one. You'll need it again.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I kinda waited on commenting on this topic until I saw some other's answers. IMHO, great advice above (well maybe except for one) but the thing that I often feel is missing from a Restorer's tool box is a "written game plan". In my opinion, you need to take about twenty hours a list out a detailed game plan of where you are going to start, ...and where you plan to end up.

For some of those who have been to my shop have seen where I authored an 1100-plus item 'task list' on a Gantt chart spelling out everything we will need to do on that vehicle's restoration. Just like someone who would be driving their Model A from NE Georgia to the MARC Meet in San Diego, if that person is unfamiliar with the highway system, it might take months instead of days to drive there if they do not have a plan or a detailed route outlining what roads to take, ...where to spend the night, ...or even where to eat or fuel up. The same mindset applies to folks who are doing a Model A restoration. Unproductive time in the garage is often spent because the tasks seem overwhelming to the unintiated and when the Restorer walks into their garage, they have no apparent direction and so that person jumps from task to task, --or on different components and nothing ever seems to get finished.

While I do not wish to share my entire Restoration Task List, I will share a portion of it so someone can understand exactly what I am suggesting:


100..... Axle Assembly - Rear:
101..........Disassemble Rear Axle Assembly
102.......... Clean, Assess, & Order Rear Axle Parts
102.01..... Degrease & Clean Rear Axle Assy. Parts
102.02..... Inspect & Assess Rear Axle Assy. Parts
102.03 ..... Order Rear Axle Assy. Parts
103....... Sandblast Rear End Parts:
104............... Sandblast Rear Axle Housings
105 .............. Sandblast Torque Tube
106 .............. Sandblast Center Housing (Banjo)
107............... Sandblast Radius Rods
108 .............. Sandblast Rear Spring Leaves
109 .............. Sandblast Spring Hangers (Shackles)
110 ...............Sandblast ………..
111 ..... Repair Housing Assembly:
112.. .........Check / Straighten Driveshaft
113 ...........Repair Differential Housing Gasket Surfaces
114 ...........Replace Spring Perch Bushings
115 ...........Replace/Repair Shock Link Balls
116 .......... Repair Axle Housing Gasket Surfaces
117 .......... Repair Axle Housing Hub Races
118 ...........Straighten & Repair Radius Rods
119 .....Rebuild Rear Spring Assy
120 .....Rebuild Speedometer Drive Assembly
121 .....Bodywork Rear Axle Housings, Torque Tube, Radius Rods
121.01 ..........Bodywork Axle Housings
121.02 ......... Bodywork Torque Tube
121.03 ..........Bodywork Radius Rods
122 ..... Paint Rear Axle Housings, Torque Tube, Radius Rods
122.01 ..........Paint Axle Housings
122.02 ..........Paint Torque Tube
122.03 ..........Paint Radius Rods
123 .....Assemble Rear Axle Assembly
124 ............Install New Races & Seals in Axle & Diff. Housings
125 ............Install New Race & Bearings, Assemble Pinion on Driveshaft
126 ............Install New Race, Driveshaft Bearings & Seal in Torque Tube
127 ............Set Pinion bearing pre-load
128 .....Assemble Differential Carrier
129 .....Set-up Differential to Rear Axle Housings
130 .....Install Torque Tube & Safety wire bolts
131 .....Install Rear Spring Assembly
132 .....Install Radius Rods
133 .....Install Speedometer Drive Cap


If a person is willing to take the time to make such a list, and then be disciplined to follow the list and devote/dedicate time to the project, it will be completed before you know it. Let me break this out even further. For my shop to do a thorough restoration on a Leatherback Fordor (including replacing all the wood) will run about 2000 hours. (and, --this type vehicle is WAY more labor intensive than a Roadster or Coupe) If a person were to designate just 20 hours a week towards this project (a couple of evenings and a Saturday) you would complete this restoration in about 100 weeks of your time. That is less than two years from start to finish!! Think about it.

.

[Charlie Stephens]

My advice would be to do the restoration an area at a time. Remove and restore the rear end and brakes, remove and restore the front end and brakes, restore the engine/transmission. If you take everything apart at the same time you will get discouraged and send the project down the road.

Charlie Stephens

[Smokey Pickett]

Great advise from Brent. I don't know how many times I've torn something apart, fixed part, put it back together, took it apart and fixed something else, put it back together and took it apart to get to something else, etc.etc. ( I guess you could argue that it is good practice!)
One more hint along the same line, when you have the body OFF, is the time to check for a bent frame! It is much easier to straighten.

[Steve Plucker]

NOT TO HIJACK THIS THREAD but Kevin in NJ and Terry, NJ both brought up some good points on "mistakes" which have been printed.

I, for one, would sure like to know about not only these, but others also in these Model A Restoration manuals for which are in print and somehow get them corrected before one goes to far with the restoration only to find out they screwed up.

Would this be a good STICKY for this site and if so, just how would one handle it?

OR...would that be "stepping on toes" and leave well enough alone?

Pluck

[Russ/40]

Pluck, I think a catalog of common mistakes or misconceptions would be a very valuable reference. It would definitely have to be policed though, as some folks just like to prove others wrong, rather than contribute. Les Andrews books in my opinion are great for the guy who is just getting his first exposure to the "A", and there are known mistakes that have yet to be put to print as official revisions. A council of experienced reviewers could advise on the validity of proposed corrections. This could be a group set up just like the site moderators.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Russ/40

... Les Andrews books in my opinion are great for the guy who is just getting his first exposure to the "A...

I realize that to the "professionals" in this group, these books may not be the final word. But to a guy like me that hadn't touched a Model A for 50 years, they have been a great help. But at the same time, I have relied on advise received here to help cement and/or correct the gaps/omissions in Les Andrews books.

At the recommendation of several folks here, I have added to my library the "As Henry Built It", the Service Bulletins, the Judging Standards, and have just ordered Victor Page's book (from Amazon). All are good reads, and helpful in "working on my truck".

[George, Iowa]

Get yourself a digital camera and take allot of pictures before taking something apart. During the disassembly and after assembled. Put the pictures a book for a time line. Don't forget to take a picture of everyone that helps you along the way.