Babbitus fragmentus!

[P.S.]

The all original 29 Fordor was running super sweet. On the way home from the club breakfast last weekend, it suddenly developed a vibration that got worse very quickly (it normally is as smooth as a 2015 Ford). I shut it down and pulled over. Came home on the metallic magic carpet. Pulled the motor today. See attached.

Center main babbit is completely gone from the cap. Everything else looks perfect inside. No damage to crank, miraculously. Other mains look perfect.

Not sure what caused this in a factory stock motor. It was sure sudden.

The oil looks dirtier in the photo than it actually is.

[DJ S]

Well I mean, it is 86 years old...

[Synchro909]

At what speed do you travel? I shudder at the clams by many on this site that they can cruise all day at 55 mph in their stock Model A. This is what happens when you flog the engine like that. I'm not saying that is what you do/did but the middle main is notoriously weak and won't take that sort of abuse.
A Model A engine will go for a long time if driven within its limits. Too many these days expect modern car performance/life out of a nearly 90 years old design.
IMHO, keep a model A under about 42 mph (with 3.78 diff ratio) or risk walking home. I know I'm going to get some telling me I'm wrong but I have seen it happen too many times to listen to fools.

[P.S.]

I didn't post this to complain, just to show what can happen, and how quickly it can happen.

I was going about 45 mph, as usual. This is an original car (original paint, interior, etc.) and mostly a preservation car, not a touring car. I have NEVER driven this car 55 mph, it's a 45 mph cruiser all day though. I never lugged it, always kept clean oil in it, you name it.

With the disclaimer out of the way now, perhaps we can proceed.

Synchro- I mostly agree with you, but that sure wasn't the case here. I think about 50 mph seems to be the consensus for a stock Model A.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by P.S.

I didn't post this to complain, just to show what can happen, and how quickly it can happen.

I was going about 45 mph, as usual. This is an original car (original paint, interior, etc.) and mostly a preservation car, not a touring car. I have NEVER driven this car 55 mph, it's a 45 mph cruiser all day though. I never lugged it, always kept clean oil in it, you name it.

With the disclaimer out of the way now, perhaps we can proceed.

Synchro- I mostly agree with you, but that sure wasn't the case here. I think about 50 mph seems to be the consensus for a stock Model A.

PS,
If this is a preservation car, the bearings are probably quite old. I'm told they deteriorate just standing there so they won't have been at their best. Yes, failure can go from bad to downright ugly very quickly. As soon as the clearance gets too wide, crankshaft starts to pound the metal in the bearing "squishing" it (don't you love these technical terms?) out of the cap. The clearance get even wider and it's all down hill from there.
You might consider inserts as replacements and if you go that way, I'd recommend an oil filter be fitted.
Good luck with it whatever you do.

[H. L. Chauvin]

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Hi P.S.,

Sad to hear; but thanks for taking time to share with photos.

Roughly how many miles were on your engine since last center main bearing adjustment?

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Roughly how many miles were on your engine since last center main bearing adjustment?

Newbie questions... What's the recommended milage between center main bearing adjustments? Or how do you determine when you need a center main bearing adjustment?

[DJ S]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Newbie questions... What's the recommended milage between center main bearing adjustments? Or how do you determine when you need a center main bearing adjustment?

That's a good question... I have no idea. 20,000 miles? That's just a guess...

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Newbie questions... What's the recommended milage between center main bearing adjustments? Or how do you determine when you need a center main bearing adjustment?

It would depend on how fast you run the engine, how often you change the oil, and whether or not you have a counterweighted crank.

[George Miller]

I had a 1930 Townsedan that had 85,000 miles on it when I adjusted the mains and rods and ground the valves for the first time.It was a original car with the original engine. I might say it was real smooth also. Also no sludge in the engine.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Newbie questions... What's the recommended milage between center main bearing adjustments? Or how do you determine when you need a center main bearing adjustment?

It will let you know when it is time. There is no right answer to your question on how long. It depends on a lot of things. How good was the babbit job, how fast do you drive, was it adjusted right in the first place, do you lug it on the hills, do you use the spark lever correctly and so on.

[P.S.]

Hi H.L.

I don't know. However, the motor was so smooth, quiet (couldn't tell it was running when at idle) and was so strong, I never checked them myself. Now that the motor is out and on the stand, I can certainly check.

I have only driven this Model A about 300 miles. Like I said, it is a preservation car. Just never got around to dropping the pan and checking the clearances. Based on how it ran, it wasn't a priority.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi P.S.,

Thanks for explanation & details in addition to photos.

Great commendable wisdom in choosing to come home on the metallic magic carpet; hence, you stopped in time and saved the crankshaft.

I knew many in the past who would have come home at 45 m.p.h. sounding like a noisy Blacksmith's shop located immediately adjacent to a church with open windows ....... they would have had a whipping crankshaft beating out the front & rear Babbitt like a 40 H. P. gas powered Roto-Rooter.

Please let us what else you may find.

[hardtimes]

Hey P.S..
Bummer , indeed !
I've often wondered how long original poured Henry Ford Babbitt would last in an engine that is driven regularly ? And, I've asked here priorly about what Synchro mentioned, i.e.- does poured Babbitt degrade/deterioriate over time, just because of AGE , whether used or not ?
The 'silver' lining' here, IMO, is that you live near a real good engine guy (Joe) in Turlock !

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey P.S..
Bummer , indeed !
I've often wondered how long original poured Henry Ford Babbitt would last in an engine that is driven regularly ? And, I've asked here priorly about what Synchro mentioned, i.e.- does poured Babbitt degrade/deterioriate over time, just because of AGE , whether used or not ?
The 'silver' lining' here, IMO, is that you live near a real good engine guy (Joe) in Turlock !

I had a 1930 Town sedan It had 85,000 miles on a original engine that had never been rebuilt. Standard bore. I adjusted the bearings and ground the valves. Ran great.

[TinCup]

Yup seen that before. Had a similar experience with my car. Front and rear main looked great but middle main was shot.

[katy]

does poured Babbitt degrade/deteriorate over time, just because of AGE , whether used or not ?

The babbitt thrust washers in Model T rear ends deteriorate w/age. I don't know it they used the same formula babbitt in the thrust washers as is used in engines or not. Anyone know?

[PC/SR]

Try a presurized center main. Dennis Pirano in Tx has a kit, cheap and easy to install. Its a simple installation.

[TDO]

Originally Posted by PC/SR

Try a presurized center main. Dennis Pirano in Tx has a kit, cheap and easy to install. Its a simple installation.

How do you contact Dennis Pirano in TX. ?

[mcorrell]

I've pulled apart many tractors that sat parked for years or decades and the babbit has come off the rods/mains in chunks when disassembled. These were engines that were parked for reasons other than oil or bearing issues and had oil in them. It seems the worst were the ones sitting the longest, like the ancient oil weakend the babbit.