E28 powerhouse generator parts

[Jembow]

Just broke my generator. As this an early pre Oct 28 5 brush unit, this part is probably unobtainable. Guess I have to try a repair.

[Steve Plucker]

I have used Super Glue to repair these parts and have had no problem since!

Just make sure everything is 100% lined up when reassembling as you only get one chance!

Pluck

[jrelliott]

UV setting epoxy also works. Very Quick 5 seconds setting.

[Jembow]

Thanks for the encouragement, I will give it a go this week

[Jembow]

Super glue worked, but now it won't charge. I had been trying to reduce the charge from 10amps 'cos I knew that would boil a lead-acid battery and I am running an Optima and had no idea what excessive charge would do to an Optima. Can't see what I've dome wrong on re-assembly, think I'll wait till my electrical genius mate John visits: there's lots of other stuff I can be doing before it is on the road.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Should have left it and found a way of putting a load to reduce the charge. When I used to run old Fords daily, I would turn the lights on for a long daylight trip to save the battery from cooking.

[Kurt in NJ]

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I have had a 14 amp rate for the last 25 years or so, got 16 years out of last optima, I turn on the lights (halogen bulbs,14 amps gives me a +1 amp with headlights on, 50% of my driving is at night)--- no maintainer, no charging except by driving
Your charging rate has to be set for your use,

[Jembow]

Yes, that's what I used to do, set the charge so it matched the headlamps. Right now the project isn't finished, no headlamps yet!

[Seabees]

Mine is broken also, it's been "repaired" with some sort of epoxy, but it is misaligned. I am going to see if my son can make me a new one out of some heavy duty plastic. He's a machinist, which for me has been great! I'll post of pick when he gets it done.

[Seabees]

Damn, didn't do a spell check on that one. I will post a pic when he gets it done. There, that's better.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Seabees

Mine is broken also, it's been "repaired" with some sort of epoxy, but it is misaligned. I am going to see if my son can make me a new one out of some heavy duty plastic. He's a machinist, which for me has been great! I'll post of pick when he gets it done.

Maybe have him make some out of Delrin?? If I can ever get to revisit the archives at Benson, I have the intent to lookup and find the print for that brush holder where I can draw it in CAD and then 3D print some to replace the ones I have that are damaged.

[Synchro909]

That part of the Powerhouse generator is quite fragile and I'm sure many of them have ended up in the scrap because someone broke it. An idea for a small cottage industry just occurred to me. If you were to superglue it back together, why not use it as a pattern to scan, then print new ones, assuming the new ones would be stronger. I don't know enough about the materials available for 3 D printers to know that one.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

That part of the Powerhouse generator is quite fragile and I'm sure many of them have ended up in the scrap because someone broke it. An idea for a small cottage industry just occurred to me. If you were to superglue it back together, why not use it as a pattern to scan, then print new ones, assuming the new ones would be stronger. I don't know enough about the materials available for 3 D printers to know that one.

Several thoughts on your suggestion.

Gluing a piece back together and then using it as a pattern is often referred to as 'Reverse-engineering', ...and quite honestly is not the best way from my perspective. It has been done many times in the past with many Model-A reproduction parts, -and generally there is some type of issue with the item. Therefore, the best way is to go find the Engineer's drawing for A-10050-A and then find the individual drawings that make-up that assembly. Then draw them as per the original print where the machining can be 'exacting' in detail. In addition to this, the person that researches this must also ready to read & study many of the Engineering Information cards to understand the evolution of that piece to determine what time-period and design needs to be reproduced. Some items were changed to reduce Ford's production costs -and as such are not the strongest or best.

Second, 3D printing is the most cost-effective method for me, ...but maybe not for someone else who has a machining center. For example, our 3D printer would likely take 10-12 hours (-yes hours) to replicate each brush holder in quality detail. During that time, the unit needs to be monitored somewhat during the printing process. When a customer is paying for that time, it can get expensive. That is why it is used more for prototyping instead of production.

As far as materials, we have some Polycarbonate material that our machine can print threads in for a ¼-24 grade 3 bolt that can be torqued in tight enough where the bolt will break before the printed threads distort and let-go. There are some machines that can even print a metalized filament. I say that to illustrate that it can be printed in a very strong material.

Third, so for it to be a cottage industry, that 'Cottage resident' really needs to be able to have access to a CNC Machining Center outside of his cottage that (s)he can use to fabricate a low-production run as after-hours or evening fill-in work to make them affordable to the average restorer. Finding a machine in that environment is going to be very difficult at best IMO.

[rotorwrench]

It's too bad that those aren't available in reproduction parts. A person could fabricate one from phenolic sheet of the proper thickness but it would take a fair amount of work to do it. This is a link to one type of phenolic sheet stock but other types are available from various sources.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...s/phenolic.php

Bakelite was likely used back in the day and it is a form of phenolic plastic with no internal reinforcing fibers. The modern polymer plasitcs such as used in some firearms like the Glock could possibly be a longer lasting material than that used in the old Power House generators. Companies that manufacture distributor caps could make them but they would likely want to make them by the thousands to profit from it.

The DIY guy could cut the sheet to size and drill the holes needed then use an old power house frame to jig for fitting the struts for riveting to keep the dimensions within reasonable specifications. The phenolic sheet is not easy to cut but it's doable with the right tools. Tubular rivets are available as well as tools to set them.

If the generator quit after repairs, then look for wire connections or insulation problems that may have been damaged or misplaced during the process.

[nkaminar]

Optima batteries are sealed but have a pressure release valve that will pop off to release excessive pressure due to over charging. Under normal conditions the hydrogen gas will recombine with the acid. For a 6 volt battery they recommend not exceeding 7.5 volts and for a 12 volt battery, 15 volts. A volt meter in addition to the ammeter will provide better monitoring of your battery charging.

To make a new part I would tend to go with phenolic sheet or Delrin. Or, if 3D printing is available then go with that with the material recommended by the printer. If the original drawings are available, then use them for the 3D model, as Brent recommended. But if not available then use the best guess from measurements of the original part.

See https://jmodela.coffeecup.com/generator.html

[Synchro909]

Back in 2018, I bought a deceased estate of Model A stuff. Included were a couple of Powerhouse generators and a heap of parts mostly from generators in which that ring had broken. Amongst the parts was a fabricated ring made from some resin impregnated fabric material. It was many years old but perfect. I offered it all for sale and the generators went in a flash and the guy who bought the pile of parts was delighted with the repro ring. So was his autoelectrician who put it all together. (I since have another I want to sell too)
With the CNC machines that ae around these days, I see no reason it can't be done again. The only ? in my mind is he cost.

[nkaminar]

Synchro, the resin impregnated fabric material was probably phenolic sheet because that is what it is. The part could probably be cut out with a water jet at very low cost. Usually many parts are cut out of a sheet of material with one setup. A CAD model needs to be made and then the part is just repeated on the sheet of material. A flat part like that is very easy to make in a CAD program. If someone sends me a good part I will make the CAD model and send the model and part back. Or I can make the CAD model from a good set of measurements or from the original drawing. A DXF file is used to control the water jet which can be sent via email. The company I retired from has the water jet machine.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Synchro, the resin impregnated fabric material was probably phenolic sheet because that is what it is. The part could probably be cut out with a water jet at very low cost. Usually many parts are cut out of a sheet of material with one setup. A CAD model needs to be made and then the part is just repeated on the sheet of material. A flat part like that is very easy to make in a CAD program. If someone sends me a good part I will make the CAD model and send the model and part back. Or I can make the CAD model from a good set of measurements or from the original drawing. A DXF file is used to control the water jet which can be sent via email. The company I retired from has the water jet machine.

That is why I am waiting on the archives to open back up where I can get the print.

While we have SolidWorks, we also have Fusion360 which will write the code internally eliminating CadCam or other conversion programs to write the G-code.

[chrs1961815]

Been waiting for the archives to open up for a while now, doesn't seem like they are in any hurry.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by chrs1961815

Been waiting for the archives to open up for a while now, doesn't seem like they are in any hurry.

It isn't The Henry Ford's fault ...I don't think, .-but more of the Governor(ess) of Michigan is what I have heard. It is apparently considered a non-essential inside venue that has become the issue.

FWIW, I have quit sending membership money. I figure when their donations drop to a point where these closed places start lobbying to their local government about not being able to open, then maybe things will change. As long as I (-and others) continue to fund them without them having to be open, they become complacent and not be motivated to reopen.

[nkaminar]

Brent, the waterjet at my old company just needs a dxf file which flows from Solidworks. Once you are ready I can get a quote for you. I have an in.