Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2013, 04:02 PM   #141
usered
Senior Member
 
usered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 232
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I had he same problem as couple of the other guys mentioned. The starter jammed into the flywheel and locked the motor up. I thought the same thing as you, the motor had seized. Just unbolted the starter and pulled it out a little and it released. For some reason I don't know why it happen a couple of times and then stoped.

Does anyone out there know why this hppens?
usered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 04:20 PM   #142
El Rat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 260
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Sounds like ring gap, or lack of.
El Rat is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 01-04-2013, 04:29 PM   #143
1937pickup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 586
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I now know why I don't run a filter in May.
1937pickup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 04:41 PM   #144
bluardun
Senior Member
 
bluardun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 298
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Let me take a guess too.
Try and turn the engine backwards. If it's a standard shift, put it in 2nd and push the car backwards.
Maybe with a little luck, you have a nut, or something that was dropped into the engine while assembling.
Let us know what you find.
best of luck
bluardun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 05:09 PM   #145
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 5,613
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Check the date, guys, this problem was diagnosed and fixed over a year ago!

Ran without a filter after the plug fitted for 95% filtration.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 06:08 PM   #146
rgtharley
Senior Member
 
rgtharley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Windsor, MD
Posts: 127
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Piston ring end clearance could be the culprit too. Like JM asks, I too wonder what the piston to bore clearance is, and whether the ring end gap may be too tight. The rule of thumb is .004 per inch of bore. I have witnessed freshly rebuilt engines come to an abrupt halt too, as soon as they get up to temperature.
Good luck finding out what it is, and let us know what you find as you disassemble.
Bob
rgtharley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 06:27 PM   #147
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 6,890
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

This is the biggest fear we builders have. We try to check everything but every once in a while you miss something. The 294 won't be run until late February, and I wonder if I forgot anything. Last year a carb screw came loose and broke a piston in a test engine. Instant bang, but we keep going. Hope it's something simple, take care.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 07:46 PM   #148
Step-down
Senior Member
 
Step-down's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hat City
Posts: 511
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I stopped using silicone caulking on my gaskets on my Harley motors years ago just for that reason... It clogged a oil port ...good by stroker motor......
__________________
"I can't cry as long as I know the Lord has risen "
Step-down is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 10:34 PM   #149
Russ/40
Senior Member
 
Russ/40's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santee, California
Posts: 2,870
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

EVERYONE, look at the date of the posts. This is an old June 2011 thread. Start at the beginning and you'll get the whole story.
Russ/40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 01:07 AM   #150
8CM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 25
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Ford one has it right
8CM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 06:12 AM   #151
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 9,715
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I remember this post well but don't recall a final report from Merc Cruzer saying that he got this engine repaired and back on the road.
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein

Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 01-05-2013 at 03:16 PM.
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 09:07 AM   #152
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 4,426
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbroke View Post
How can you bore it .60 over and reuse the original pistons? Supposed to buy over-sized pistons to match.

Not sure why it siezed, because you haven't said what actually siezed yet. But I know you need to put bigger pistons back in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Rat View Post
Sounds like ring gap, or lack of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1937pickup View Post
I now know why I don't run a filter in May.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluardun View Post
Let me take a guess too.
Try and turn the engine backwards. If it's a standard shift, put it in 2nd and push the car backwards.
Maybe with a little luck, you have a nut, or something that was dropped into the engine while assembling.
Let us know what you find.
best of luck
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtharley View Post
Piston ring end clearance could be the culprit too. Like JM asks, I too wonder what the piston to bore clearance is, and whether the ring end gap may be too tight. The rule of thumb is .004 per inch of bore. I have witnessed freshly rebuilt engines come to an abrupt halt too, as soon as they get up to temperature.
Good luck finding out what it is, and let us know what you find as you disassemble.
Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
This is the biggest fear we builders have. We try to check everything but every once in a while you miss something. The 294 won't be run until late February, and I wonder if I forgot anything. Last year a carb screw came loose and broke a piston in a test engine. Instant bang, but we keep going. Hope it's something simple, take care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8CM View Post
Ford one has it right
The reason for the engine seizier was determined and corrected about a year and a half ago. Guy's-- Wake-up!
__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:33 AM   #153
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,057
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

JM35 Sedan:

As it turns out, I had drilled the passage to put in a full flow oil filter system and then forgot to put a plug in it since I did not use the system. Failed to put that on my check list during assembly. Bottom line I was not getting oil to the rod bearings. When the symptoms started I did shut the motor off and towed the car home (two blocks) and then pulled the pan. That resulted in pulling the engine out again and tearing it down again. The bottom line is the bearings did exactly what they were supposed to do, (not my first engine but it was my first flathead) only damage was to the bearings. I had the crank polished and re-cleaned the block. New set of bearings and I was good to go. It has been great and has all the power it should after a full rebuild...oil pressure 60 lbs. If this post is still helping after over a year then it was well worth the learning experience for me. The bottom two pictures were taken with the engine still in the car.

To my 53' Merc, I say...thanks for the education (which will never end), all in all the tuition was very reasonable....and my love of driving it will only end when I do.

Originally Posted by Carbroke
How can you bore it .60 over and reuse the original pistons? Supposed to buy over-sized pistons to match.

Not sure why it siezed, because you haven't said what actually siezed yet. But I know you need to put bigger pistons back in.

In my case I used a new block and had it bored to match the 60 over pistons from the old block.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0434.JPG (124.2 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0261.jpg (37.4 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0268.jpg (37.3 KB, 79 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0270.jpg (38.2 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN6630.jpg (82.5 KB, 94 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN6631.jpg (75.7 KB, 85 views)

Last edited by Merc Cruzer; 01-05-2013 at 11:25 AM.
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:42 AM   #154
Planojc
Senior Member
 
Planojc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 541
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I second that. Put it in second or third gear and rock the car.
Planojc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 12:44 PM   #155
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 9,715
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Merc Cruzer, thanks for the followup. I'm glad to hear that all ended well and you are enjoying the ride. Reading your original post may have prevented me from doing the same thing with a freshly built 59 series 284 cid engine. I did the 95% FF system and was planning to plug off those rear ports for initial start up.

Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 01-05-2013 at 02:25 PM.
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 02:31 PM   #156
Jim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alto, Tx.
Posts: 298
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

While I understand almost all that has been said in this thread except the part about the plug or connection that has a 1/16 hole drilled in it, where does this plug or connection go? Thanks Jim
Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 03:13 PM   #157
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 4,426
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
While I understand almost all that has been said in this thread except the part about the plug or connection that has a 1/16 hole drilled in it, where does this plug or connection go? Thanks Jim
This is where the oil restrictor hole is on a stock filter setup.

__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 02:26 AM   #158
Bluebell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 720
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

This has been a very good thread.
I will add a half a picture of the fitting used by the Canadians that acted to block the other way while it was being used, and allow normal flow internally through the block when no external fittings (cooler, filter etc) was not connected. This is the one Barlea referred to.
I will show also a picture of the circuit diagram showing a cooler, a bypass valve, and a filter, from a Canadian Ford (Bren)Carrier.

One confusing aspect of this thread is about the two types of filtering systems used on these fords.
The original canister type is a bypass system that bleeds off about 5 to 10 percent of the oil, to filter it, and return it directly to the sump.
These filter elements were a very fine filtering media that removed very fine particles. They had a large surface area, and the oil supply to then was limited by the restrictor. They could stay in service for a long time. The rest of the oil being used to lube the engine before its return to the sump.

The full flow systems (95 or 100 percent.-two variations) used a modern type filter where all the pumped oil is sent through the filter, then goes on to lube the engine before returning to the pump. The variation between the two full flow systems is this.
In the 95% system the oil going to the rear main is not filtered before it goes there. In the 100% system it is.
The 100% system requires much modification. The 95% system requires very little, and what you need to keep in mind is that it(the oil) is already pretty clean as there is a 95% chance it went through the filter before it was picked up by the pump, this time around.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 9085748094_75b99fe6a4_z.jpg (33.2 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg cooler plumbing.jpg (44.9 KB, 101 views)
Bluebell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 09:10 AM   #159
G.M.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida and Penna.
Posts: 4,172
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ View Post
Now Lou. Doncha know a lotta us old geezers have forgotten about the age-old suggestion of simply changing oil every few thousand miles might actually be enough to keep an old flathead from havin' a stroke or seizure? So due to our fading memory we're more or less forced to get anal about dressing up and sometimes plugging up our beloved flatties with fancy plumbing and chrome-plated filters. Geez, I thought all old geezers knew that! 8^)

Jack E/NJ
Jack I have been wondering the same thing if all this foolishness is worth it. I have a bunch of old Fords, some with no filters and some with the old original Ford filters and never had bearing problems. I used good oil and change it once in a while. My 39 convertible with a new Dennis carpenter WW2 engine I installed 32 years ago with the Ford bypass filter that I opened the restrictor hole some has 120,000 miles on it and doesn't burn any noticeable oil, is quiet and runs smooth. Has thousands of 65 MPH 10 or 12 hour driving days and is clean inside. I find that when the engine ran up in the 200 degree range for a number of years the oil got black in a few days and used some oil. After getting the engine cooled with Skips pumps and a pressure cap it ran in the 165 range and stopped using oil. The oil also stays a slightly dark yellow. Still has over 15 lbs pressure at idle and 45 plus at driving speeds. Sounds like these modern filters on an old engine may cause more problems than the good they can do. I also wonder if oil starvation at start ups could be a problem. I know the benefit of filtration but on these engines is it worth it. G.M.
__________________
www.fordcollector.com
G.M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 03:24 PM   #160
Barlea
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 441
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

The Ford Canada full-flow system was tested in quite a few locations including the North African desert, Sicily, Italy, France, Holland and Germany for about five years in the 40s before it was offered as an option on civilian cars and trucks until '51. Some of the testing was probably under even more severe conditions than us codgers can dish out to the flathead. Never heard of a problem caused by the filtration system so it could very well be worth it. ..B.
Barlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:30 PM.