Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-05-2019, 02:30 AM   #1
michael a
Senior Member
 
michael a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lone Jack Missouri
Posts: 367
Default Brake floaters

How many of you are using the flat head Ted kit and how do you like it did you notice a great deal in your braking power

Sent from my SM-J701M using Tapatalk
michael a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 03:09 AM   #2
The Master Cylinder
Senior Member
 
The Master Cylinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 232
Default Re: Brake floaters

I had just installed new brakes including new cast iron drums. Everything was new or rebuilt down to replacing the return springs. I was really happy with the way it stopped.

Then after about three months after installing the brakes I won a complete set of Flat Head Teds floaters. Since I got them for the price of a raffle ticket I decided to "try" them. If I didn't like them i could always remove them since you do not have to modify the stock system to install.

I must say I am impressed. The car REALLY stops good now. The pedal feels similar to power brakes.

Just make sure the rest of your system is in good shape because the FHTs kit isn't designed to cure defective brakes.
__________________
The Master Cylinder

Enjoying life at the beach in SoCal...
The Master Cylinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 01-05-2019, 08:07 AM   #3
wmws
Senior Member
 
wmws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Coatesville, Pa
Posts: 506
Default Re: Brake floaters

I agree with what Master Cylinder said. I only have them on the front along with cast iron drums. That combination makes a huge difference. The back brakes I don't feel really need them. I have the brakes adjusted so most of the braking is on the front. The backs will lock up easily enough without added power.
wmws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 08:13 AM   #4
roy green coupe
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 34
Default Re: Brake floaters

I feel i wasted a lot of time messing with the rears. I would just do the fronts if i were to do it again.
roy green coupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 08:22 AM   #5
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 8,807
Default Re: Brake floaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by roy green coupe View Post
I feel i wasted a lot of time messing with the rears. I would just do the fronts if i were to do it again.
Yes, the rears are already floating. Generally speaking, if everything was new in the front and the FHT added later made a huge improvement, then the shoes were not properly centered.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 10:49 AM   #6
Bob Bidonde
Senior Member
 
Bob Bidonde's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,417
Default Re: Brake floaters

I have Ted's floaters on all of my brakes, and the brake operation is way superior to the stock brakes. In my opinion, there ought to be law requiring Flat Head Ted's brake floaters.
__________________
Bob Bidonde
Bob Bidonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 12:17 PM   #7
The Master Cylinder
Senior Member
 
The Master Cylinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 232
Default Re: Brake floaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Generally speaking, if everything was new in the front and the FHT added later made a huge improvement, then the shoes were not properly centered.
I think it has to do more with the "Self Energizing Concept" as described in the article in Model A Times.

My shoes were all arced and centered properly.
__________________
The Master Cylinder

Enjoying life at the beach in SoCal...
The Master Cylinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 03:53 PM   #8
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 4,441
Default Re: Brake floaters

We have been using the floaters that Snyders sells. No complaints from the owners cars we have installed them on.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/brake-floater-kit
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 05:38 PM   #9
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,297
Default Re: Brake floaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by redmodelt View Post
We have been using the floaters that Snyders sells. No complaints from the owners cars we have installed them on.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/brake-floater-kit
On the car I'm putting together at the moment, I modified original style components to get those floaters and I'm putting the longer levers from the back on the front. I'm hoping that will give me a better balance between front and back. Everything is new including CI drums.
__________________
Nobody told me rigor could start while I'm still alive.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 05:49 PM   #10
Jim M
Senior Member
 
Jim M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 334
Default Re: Brake floaters

I have them installed and quite honestly I have so many other problems with my brakes can't really comment on them. But I do have a question as I have been reading a lot about brakes. How many of you successful installs have taken off the top springs and does that make a significant difference. Thanks!!
Jim M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 07:00 PM   #11
Dick Steinkamp
Senior Member
 
Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 1,123
Default Re: Brake floaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder View Post

I must say I am impressed. The car REALLY stops good now. The pedal feels similar to power brakes.

Just make sure the rest of your system is in good shape because the FHTs kit isn't designed to cure defective brakes.
X2. Night and day difference.

Be sure to adjust them per FH Ted's instructions which puts the majority of the braking on the front wheels like all post Model A cars.
__________________
All steel from pedal to wheel
Dick Steinkamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2019, 11:58 AM   #12
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 8,807
Default Re: Brake floaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder View Post
I think it has to do more with the "Self Energizing Concept" as described in the article in Model A Times.

My shoes were all arced and centered properly.

When you study the workings of the FH set-up, you have the Wedge Adjusting Wedge head that is now loose in the upper portion of the brake housing (backing) plate. So two things happens when the brakes are applied in that the shoes rotate limited mainly by the head of the adjusting wedge hitting the inside of the brake housing plate. The bottom brake operating wedge has clearance built around the wedge stud, so by theory the front shoe is already pushing against (energizing) the rear shoe. Where this theory goes out the window is when the shoes are not within the centerline of the drum braking surface as the lining only engages in a small contact area.


This topic has been discussed for years upon years here and in other venues, and the general consensus from advocates and opponents alike has always been that FH Ted floaters do nothing for poor brakes anyway, ...and no one can scientifically prove that one provides better stopping ability over the other (-if you have an idea I would be glad to entertain that suggestion for an upcoming workshop), so it has always seemed to boil down to people only believe what seems believable to them.


Oh, and one other point that has always been discussed is that self-energizing typically means that once you have created a force, then you can release the force and the object will remain in positive motion. In the case of the FH brake modification, it has been proven that as soon as you release the force, the positive braking force ceases. Since that is the case, would you not agree they really are not "self-energizing"?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim M View Post
I have them installed and quite honestly I have so many other problems with my brakes can't really comment on them. But I do have a question as I have been reading a lot about brakes. How many of you successful installs have taken off the top springs and does that make a significant difference. Thanks!!

It makes a big difference on pedal pressure effort needed, ...which a softer pedal is why some like them. Not so good for shoe lining to drum drag though.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2019, 04:00 PM   #13
wmws
Senior Member
 
wmws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Coatesville, Pa
Posts: 506
Default Re: Brake floaters

Can we all agree that even without the Flat Head Ted system that the rear shoe is self energizing. If we can agree with that, then we should agree that with the Flat Head Ted system the front shoe is also self energizing. Two self energizing shoes being better that one hence the feeling of power brakes. In the old days when race cars and motorcycles had drum brakes double leading shoes were very common. The Flat Head Ted system is a way of getting some of the effect of a double leading shoe system without all the engineering that goes into a double leading shoe system.
wmws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2019, 06:23 PM   #14
BRENT in 10-uh-C
Senior Member
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 8,807
Default Re: Brake floaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmws View Post
Can we all agree that even without the Flat Head Ted system that the rear shoe is self energizing. If we can agree with that, then we should agree that with the Flat Head Ted system the front shoe is also self energizing. Two self energizing shoes being better that one hence the feeling of power brakes. In the old days when race cars and motorcycles had drum brakes double leading shoes were very common. The Flat Head Ted system is a way of getting some of the effect of a double leading shoe system without all the engineering that goes into a double leading shoe system.

Ummm, I don't believe I could not agree to that. It is self-centering but not self-energizing.
__________________
.

BRENT in 10-uh-C
.
www.model-a-ford.com
...(...Finally Updated!! )

.
BRENT in 10-uh-C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2019, 07:57 PM   #15
burner31
Senior Member
 
burner31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Shawnee, Ok
Posts: 2,561
Default Re: Brake floaters

I did the front...I like them.
__________________
Keith
Shawnee OK
'31 SW 160-B
burner31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2019, 08:32 PM   #16
wmws
Senior Member
 
wmws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Coatesville, Pa
Posts: 506
Default Re: Brake floaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Ummm, I don't believe I could not agree to that. It is self-centering but not self-energizing.
IMHO it is both self centering and self energizing. Being a mechanic I'm sure you understand the physics of a leading shoe vs a trailing shoe. So why would not a double leading shoe not be better than just one leading shoe.
And the reason that when you take your foot off the brake it does not keep self energizing is because the springs pull the shoe back away from the drum.
wmws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2019, 09:59 PM   #17
updraught
Senior Member
 
updraught's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,134
Default Re: Brake floaters

Here's a diagram.



http://constructionmanuals.tpub.com/...zation-256.htm
updraught is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:30 PM.