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Old 11-26-2017, 08:32 AM   #1
stangblue
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Default How far can we go to be Correct!

I posted this under another thread here, I like to know other opinions and feelings as well. Do we need another class in the V8 club for the exact way the car ran off the manufacturers line? They have a class in MCA (Mustang Club of America) called Thoroughbred where cars have to have non DOT tires (prior 68 I believe) and the exhaust system dated (new)and all original new parts (meaning no repro's). Just as the car ran off the factory line. The cars have became statues where they don't even drive them. They put booty's on the tires so the sun doesn't cause dry rot and they push the cars around to the concourse. There are few that take up the challenge and believe me it's one for deep pockets. One member is a good friend of mine, so I know first hand.

Just a word on exact OEM. Putting sound deadner sp. in the doors and areas that will never be seen till the next person rips the car apart again. Should we not use plastic body fill and use lead instead? Do we restore our cars today with rubber parts in the fuel system (so they can blow up in size with ethanol) or use neoprene? Do we still use non detergent oils and paraffin grease etc. etc.? As a fellow car enthusiast once said, "Do we put Dearborn air in our tires as well?"
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Old 11-26-2017, 09:28 AM   #2
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

I remember an ad in Hemmings many years ago where a guy wanted a new 4.10 ring and pinion for his COPO Camaro. Sounds simple enough but he wanted a specific date range to match the build date of his car. Sheer lunacy.
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

They are nice to look at but things do seem to get unrealistic. I realized long time ago my car was never going to be as nice as some that were just attending a retractable meet. In the judging of the "Gold" or whatever they were calling it I overheard judges commenting on the exact angle of a tower hose clamp, the battery in another was a reproduction, it goes on and on. The judges were there to judge the class and the cars were nice. Just not my thing. And as far as exact No such thing. I have worked on assembly lines. People take a day off, grab utility person, more than 1 shift more assemblers, different people different way of doing something. Some things are more critical than others and inspected thoroughly others not so much. Anyway I'll get off my soap box and look at some of the fantastic cars here on the barn. On a side not I dropped my membership in the retractable club after watching the judging.
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stangblue View Post
I posted this under another thread here, I like to know other opinions and feelings as well. Do we need another class in the V8 club for the exact way the car ran off the manufacturers line? They have a class in MCA (Mustang Club of America) called Thoroughbred where cars have to have non DOT tires (prior 68 I believe) and the exhaust system dated (new)and all original new parts (meaning no repro's). Just as the car ran off the factory line. The cars have became statues where they don't even drive them. They put booty's on the tires so the sun doesn't cause dry rot and they push the cars around to the concourse. There are few that take up the challenge and believe me it's one for deep pockets. One member is a good friend of mine, so I know first hand.

Just a word on exact OEM. Putting sound deadner sp. in the doors and areas that will never be seen till the next person rips the car apart again. Should we not use plastic body fill and use lead instead? Do we restore our cars today with rubber parts in the fuel system (so they can blow up in size with ethanol) or use neoprene? Do we still use non detergent oils and paraffin grease etc. etc.? As a fellow car enthusiast once said, "Do we put Dearborn air in our tires as well?"
The V8 Club has a division for this type of car. In fact, it is (to put it simply) what the Club was founded upon. It is called the Concourse. Unfortunately the powers that be have allowed this class to disintegrate to the point that it's nearly laughable.
I will be perhaps one of the first to agree that there is room for all within the club. What I will never agree with is the allowance of touring cars on the judged concourse. Your point that the concourse is for 'deep pockets" is one with due warrant.
However, that's a choice everyone makes - whether they want to compete at that level or not. Those that want to compete at that level without the necessary investment of research, time and yes, money, have at minimum aided the now fouled mission of the club.
How does one feel good about "winning" without placing the requisite effort in to their so called restoration?
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:55 AM   #5
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

I think this comes down to how far you want to go as an individual. If you want a good quality driver that's what you should build. If you want a show car and have an unlimited budget than go ahead and build it. It's all personal preference.
It's always been my opinion that if you are a V-8 Club member the club owes you a place to park your early V-8. If you show up and support a National Meet or any other V-8 Club function you should be recognized for your support of the club. The touring class V-8's far outnumber the concourse classes and without them there wouldn't be much of a concourse. It's all about the people having fun with their cars and enjoying the company of fellow V-8ers.
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

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I think this comes down to how far you want to go as an individual. If you want a good quality driver that's what you should build. If you want a show car and have an unlimited budget than go ahead and build it. It's all personal preference.
It's always been my opinion that if you are a V-8 Club member the club owes you a place to park your early V-8. If you show up and support a National Meet or any other V-8 Club function you should be recognized for your support of the club. The touring class V-8's far outnumber the concourse classes and without them there wouldn't be much of a concourse. It's all about the people having fun with their cars and enjoying the company of fellow V-8ers.
Tom...I agree! Wouldn't be much of a show without the "Touring," Touring A," and "Rouge" classes. And I feel it is much nicer to see them parked together on the concourse. The color-coded windshield placards shows division enough.

Pat
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

I don't think the EFV8 club needs any more categories. There are enough to cover pretty much anything that shows up. I agree with TJ and Pat. I prefer all the cars parked together by year if possible with the placards identifying the class.
Until all deputy judges have Mike's level of knowledge for their particular Concourse class there will always be things that slip by, and I think most people can live with that.
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

I got out of Corvettes (I was never actually that far in) when they started judging wheel weights. The Camaro Story" mentioned above is de rigueur with those guys.
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Old 11-26-2017, 01:10 PM   #9
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Personal choice issue to me .

Never been too concerned about what busybodies think .
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Old 11-26-2017, 01:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

I refuse to enable the pervasive 'cop' mentality the judges have at these events....
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Old 11-26-2017, 01:29 PM   #11
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ View Post
I think this comes down to how far you want to go as an individual. If you want a good quality driver that's what you should build. If you want a show car and have an unlimited budget than go ahead and build it. It's all personal preference.
It's always been my opinion that if you are a V-8 Club member the club owes you a place to park your early V-8. If you show up and support a National Meet or any other V-8 Club function you should be recognized for your support of the club. The touring class V-8's far outnumber the concourse classes and without them there wouldn't be much of a concourse. It's all about the people having fun with their cars and enjoying the company of fellow V-8ers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat/Ohio View Post
Tom...I agree! Wouldn't be much of a show without the "Touring," Touring A," and "Rouge" classes. And I feel it is much nicer to see them parked together on the concourse. The color-coded windshield placards shows division enough.

Pat
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I don't think the EFV8 club needs any more categories. There are enough to cover pretty much anything that shows up. I agree with TJ and Pat. I prefer all the cars parked together by year if possible with the placards identifying the class.
Until all deputy judges have Mike's level of knowledge for their particular Concourse class there will always be things that slip by, and I think most people can live with that.
You three guys have nailed it in my opinion. I totally agree with eveything you say and could not have said it any better myself.

I'm really looking forward to attending the EFV8 C/A GNM in Dearborn, MI next June, and I will enjoy looking at all the vehicles there from Disply to Concourse, as well as meeting up with old and new V8er friends.
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Old 11-26-2017, 02:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

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Do we need another class in the V8 club for the exact way the car ran off the manufacturers line? "
This category already exists. Check your club literature.
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Old 11-26-2017, 03:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

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...What I will never agree with is the allowance of touring cars on the judged concourse...
What I will never agree with is the allowance of over-restored cars to be eligible for a Dearborn Award.

Those who restore with integrity to original have done so with the intention of fulfilling the Club's mission.

Those who over-restore to gain approval of the AACA are thumbing their noses at the Club's mission.
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Old 11-26-2017, 03:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

Edit: (I withdraw my comments.)
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Old 11-26-2017, 03:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

Of course different events have a different focus. For those here that are in the EFV8 club, if you are having your car point judged (which is your choice) it is judged against how your car rolled off the assembly line, not against any other vehicle at the event. That is the metric those of us use when restoring a car to be judged in the EFV8 club.
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Old 11-26-2017, 03:50 PM   #16
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Alan,

Maybe out west over-restorations are in vogue in AACA judging, but closer to AACA's home that is not the case as some really sloppy restorations readily gain their first Junior and Senior awards.

I agree that the Touring and Rouge Classes are an important part of the Club's mandate. Where the Club crossed the line and ignored its own mission statement was the creation of the Display class where not even a Ford powertrain is required.
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Old 11-26-2017, 04:06 PM   #17
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

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...The cars have became statues where they don't even drive them...
To the original question, No. No new classes are indicated.

Every owner can do what they want with the vehicles they own. But to put my vehicle in a condition that scares me from enjoying it AS A VEHICLE, doesn't interest me even a little bit.

There is room in this hobby for all who want to play old car games (excluding the thieves). I'd say everyone enjoys one aspect of owning/restoring/showing/judging/driving/conversing more than another.

Pursue what gives you fulfillment!
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Old 11-26-2017, 04:10 PM   #18
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Alan,

Maybe out west over-restorations are in vogue in AACA judging, but closer to AACA's home that is not the case as some really sloppy restorations readily gain their first Junior and Senior awards.

I agree that the Touring and Rouge Classes are an important part of the Club's mandate. Where the Club crossed the line and ignored its own mission statement was the creation of the Display class where not even a Ford powertrain is required.
David, I agree, but then, the Display Class is separate from the Concourse, as some would prefer the Rouge and Touring to be: "A place for everything and everything in its place". With as large as the Meets have gotten, the show areas are many times dictated by space available. It used to be said that Display Class was "Over yonder, behind the Dumpster"!
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Old 11-26-2017, 04:12 PM   #19
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I certainly admire restorations down to every bolt and nut, but many of these are not usually driven and enjoyed on a regular basis. The changes made on my cars over the years have been to enhance the safety and reliability so I can go where and when I desire.
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Old 11-26-2017, 05:43 PM   #20
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Alan,

At some national meets, you would not perceive the separation. In one instance in the mid-west, you had to walk through the Display class to get to the other classes.
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