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Old 11-26-2017, 05:48 PM   #21
John R
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

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Originally Posted by VeryTangled View Post
....
There is room in this hobby for all who want to play old car games (excluding the thieves). I'd say everyone enjoys one aspect of owning/restoring/showing/judging/driving/conversing more than another.

Pursue what gives you fulfillment!
Right on, Jeff!
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Old 11-26-2017, 06:33 PM   #22
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

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Alan,

At some national meets, you would not perceive the separation. In one instance in the mid-west, you had to walk through the Display class to get to the other classes.
That's not good. There are, however, justifiable reasons for such anomalies...
One being that Meets are sponsored by Volunteers who have a right to make their own mistakes!
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Old 11-26-2017, 06:43 PM   #23
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Old cars are just a hobby for some. They require a vehicle they can drive on snday and is safe and reliable. THis cost money as well. I'm here on the barn with a racing back ground, but I understand the engines, drive train, suspension. among other things. A great deal of these components are unreliable and should be replaced for safety and economy reasons. Keeping the engine and trans is a rebuilding cost, but can be made serviceable and reliable. Rear axle and all brakes should be replaced. The only reason I'd replace the rear axle is: repairing it is expensive. The plan should be an investment that with in reason for what you want for the application of the car.truck. This forum is a good place to learn what to do, and the cost involved. Then it up to the individual. gota keep em runnin!!
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Old 11-26-2017, 10:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

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Pursue what gives you fulfillment!
Very Tangled nailed it! That is the bottom line . I see many comments
Of personal opinion posted all of the time here that have absolutely
No relevance in answering questions posted by members here - including
In the post that prompted this thread. I build my cars to make me happy,
Not you. I ask questions to accomplish my goals , not to be told I have to
do this or that and if I donít Iím an idiot or Iím wasting my time or etc.... I
Appreciate the help from most members here and ignore the irrelevant
Posts. I probably shouldnít post this but.......
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:17 PM   #25
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Build it yourself, drive it, enjoy it, end of story !!!
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:42 PM   #26
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Hey Folks, it is all a game at this point, and the V8 Club has enough classes to let you play the game you choose. I am just glad we don't all want to play the exact same game. Choose your game and play it, have fun. PHIL
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:02 AM   #27
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In the early 70's a very good 4 banger builder in Glendale, CA by the name of Wess Cooper had a Model A with a Crager head on it and a Winfield carburetor. He went to a local Model A meet and some folks pissed and moaned about it. Well they had a small trophy for the slowest idling engine. His engine was in perfect tune and he won the little trophy. So he announced that he had the fastest car and the slowest car at the meet.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:01 AM   #28
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

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In the early 70's a very good 4 banger builder in Glendale, CA by the name of Wess Cooper had a Model A with a Crager head on it and a Winfield carburetor. He went to a local Model A meet and some folks pissed and moaned about it. Well they had a small trophy for the slowest idling engine. His engine was in perfect tune and he won the little trophy. So he announced that he had the fastest car and the slowest car at the meet.
I like this Wess guy.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:46 AM   #29
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Here is Wess Cooper and Ed Winfield checking out my 29 Roadster Pickup in1976. B engine with Cook 4 port head with Winfield downdrafts. 1940 period correct. LOL


Tim
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:06 AM   #30
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It's funny how the AACA garner's such high regard among many poster's. Our German Ford won a National First in 1967 with the wrong year V8 in it and a few other noticeable 32 details!!! .......We showed it at
an AACA meet in 2005 with the correct 32 motor and was told the car was "Made up" and that "Nothing about our car was correct"!! As far as I am concerned the AACA is a joke and what judging standards they have are far worse than the EFV8 club. I agree with most on here, the EVF8 does a very respectable job and have the class pretty well sectioned out. And just what constitutes over restored?? There are/were a lot of cars made were door gaps, alignment and fit were not perfect to begin with.....same with hood fitment.....SO in reality would that constitute OVER RESTORATION because that wasn't how "Henry Built it!!"
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:44 AM   #31
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It's funny how the AACA garner's such high regard among many poster's. Our German Ford won a National First in 1967 with the wrong year V8 in it and a few other noticeable 32 details!!! .......We showed it at
an AACA meet in 2005 with the correct 32 motor and was told the car was "Made up" and that "Nothing about our car was correct"!! As far as I am concerned the AACA is a joke and what judging standards they have are far worse than the EFV8 club. I agree with most on here, the EVF8 does a very respectable job and have the class pretty well sectioned out. And just what constitutes over restored?? There are/were a lot of cars made were door gaps, alignment and fit were not perfect to begin with.....same with hood fitment.....SO in reality would that constitute OVER RESTORATION because that wasn't how "Henry Built it!!"
I agree with in regard to the AACA and as such never placed much stock in showing a car in that venue.

I now full well that there are those that openly (and some not so openly) are harsh in their opinions of what I do - "over restore".
Although my projects are admittedly much nicer than what Ford manufactured, you can rest assured they are correct in the most minute detail and everything operates as new or better.
I never argue this point of their contention as I know my projects are "over restored". Ford could never have afford to build the quality I expect of myself. Nor was that ever their (Ford's) intention.

For the record, I have never argued against driver quality cars, modified or otherwise. In fact, in many ways, I admire the folks that pursue that angle of our shared hobby.
I will argue that those cars, if placed on a concourse, be judged the same as one of the so called "over restored" cars. If something is incorrect, a point deduction should be made.

Recently, as no doubt many of you realize, the Ford Club Board has officially allowed electric fuel pumps on concourse (point judged) cars with no point deduction.
The argument (simply put) is that it allows a safer and more reliable driving experience. While those points can easily be argued against (my cars are AUTHENTIC and run and drive just fine), these cars are now shown at the same "level" as a properly restored vehicle.
Anyone see an issue with this? Do we now no longer deduct for an incorrect fuel pump?
Hey, if a guy wants to drive the pants off his car, enjoy, enjoy, enjoy. However, don't ever become comfortable with those "free" five points for that electric pump. Your car and you did not deserve them.
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:47 AM   #32
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For once, I completely agree with "Kube". I can't but wonder why they would have done this.
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Old 11-27-2017, 01:27 PM   #33
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For once, I completely agree with "Kube". I can't but wonder why they would have done this.
So many guys complaining about the deduction while the same time insisting the only way they could make their car dependable was to install an electric pump.
These same guys want to "win" a Dearborn Award even though most reasonable folks would understand that winning with way, well, I digress...

What I can't understand is why the board of directors had even entertained this idea much less having adopted it.
The club already had a touring class with no deduction for an electric pump.
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Old 11-27-2017, 02:27 PM   #34
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If a person wants to compete in the field of auto restoration for show purposes, I see nothing wrong with taking it as far as it can possibly go toward authenticity for original production. These are historic vehicles after all and knowing how they were originally is a part of that quest for historic value.

If your thing is just restoring, repairing, and maintaining a vintage car for the regular use of it then there is certainly nothing wrong with that either. Folks add hydraulic brakes, tube type shocks, modern type wiring, seat belts, and radial tires just to name a few updates so that the cars are more comfortable to drive and ride in for their friends & family. They still retain a lot of historic value but they aren't serious competitors for awards at shows in my book. A lot of folks have more fun showing them off on the street than in car shows anyway.
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Old 11-27-2017, 03:54 PM   #35
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Criticizing other's cars has caused members to defect. Setting the cars up in a timeline makes it easier for people to look at the cars and meet the owners. My 49 was done as correct as I could get it. I had it judged once and if I knew a little more could have gotten a Dearborn. But I built it to drive it. I have 40k on the restoration and it still looks pretty good.
These judges are volunteers doing their best. I feel for the deputy judge who has to tell a guy who just paid top dollar for a 34 Ford roadster that he needs to spend thousands more to get it right. While we do not nitpick on wheel weights we try to at least make sure the simple things are done right. For instance I once noticed the pads missing between the leaf springs. Like a $20 fix. Pitting on the frame which could easily have been corrected when painting. But as the film says do not kill the car because then you kill the owner's enthusiasm.
I do not agree with the electric pump but they should not take off more than 2 points for one. Many guys take the 20 points for dual exhaust because that is how they like their car. The club makes every effort to incorporate the diversity of the owners. Unlike the Model A club our cars are one year only for the most part over a period of 24 years. I think they do a pretty good job of maintaining some semblance of judging standards for all of them.
If we get picky and limit what's allowed the meet attendance will go from 350 to 50. How many of those 300 were doing serious work on the meet? Inclusion is the key to survival of the hobby and getting and keeping these cars restored. We encourage members to drive to the meets and enjoy the cars. It's what we are. It's made me some of the best friends one could ever have. How can you fault that?
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Old 11-27-2017, 05:52 PM   #36
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“Sum Cuique” or to each his own!
Still I have wondered if one was able to go back in time and bring a 46 Ford off the showroom floor back to present day. Then have it judged, what would be the outcome?
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:01 PM   #37
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Default Re: How far can we go to be Correct!

Kube,
Just to adjust you statement a bit... The V-8 Club's Board of Directors did NOT implement the electric fuel pump. The Judging Standards committee is the one that makes such changes.

Craig has started a interesting thread. In my opinion we are in a generational shift. The younger generation of this hobby simply wants to drive their cars. Authentically restoring a car is a passion that sadly seems to be dying off.

I am worried that if we made the concourse class as strict, as say the Corvette Club we would have ZERO participants. In their judging the paint must have the correct orange peel, and as of recently they use dial calipers to measure the "bugs" on the windows to try and insure the glass and markings are original. Powder coated exhaust systems is a big no no..

My opinion, is yes.. minor Changes could be made to better V-8 Club Judging at meets. And also I too am not a huge supporter of the display class. All this said the Club is ultimately owned by the members. The last thing we want to do is see a member show up to a meet and turn them away because we do not like his/her car.

The best thing a person could do that wants changes in the club, is run for a Board of Director position. It is a wonderful opportunity to serve the club and sit in the driver's seat. Doesn't take much time out of your life and I would encourage you all to consider it.
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:40 PM   #38
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Kube,
Just to adjust you statement a bit... The V-8 Club's Board of Directors did NOT implement the electric fuel pump. The Judging Standards committee is the one that makes such changes.

Craig has started a interesting thread. In my opinion we are in a generational shift. The younger generation of this hobby simply wants to drive their cars. Authentically restoring a car is a passion that sadly seems to be dying off.

I am worried that if we made the concourse class as strict, as say the Corvette Club we would have ZERO participants. In their judging the paint must have the correct orange peel, and as of recently they use dial calipers to measure the "bugs" on the windows to try and insure the glass and markings are original. Powder coated exhaust systems is a big no no..

My opinion, is yes.. minor Changes could be made to better V-8 Club Judging at meets. And also I too am not a huge supporter of the display class. All this said the Club is ultimately owned by the members. The last thing we want to do is see a member show up to a meet and turn them away because we do not like his/her car.

The best thing a person could do that wants changes in the club, is run for a Board of Director position. It is a wonderful opportunity to serve the club and sit in the driver's seat. Doesn't take much time out of your life and I would encourage you all to consider it.
Mike, Thank you for correcting me.
Just so I understand this clearly, I must ask, does the board not oversee the judging committee?
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:18 PM   #39
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The Judging Standards Committee sets the rules and the BOD adopts them into the Judging Manual which is part of the by-laws. Recommendations for changing/adding to the rules can come from the BOD, members, or a person on the Judging Standards Committee. The Committee can say yea or nay to a specific recommendation. If they approve the recommendation then it goes to the BOD to be adopted into the Judging Manual. The JSC is the one to set the rules.
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:45 PM   #40
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TJ just saved me from my response, and hitted the nail on the head.
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