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Old 11-15-2019, 07:11 PM   #21
Merc Cruzer
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Default Re: FORD vs FERRARI

My wife and I just got back from the movie. We are not regular movie goers. The last one was well over 15 years ago. If you are going, spend the extra money and go to an IMAX theater. We both liked it, and would like to see it again, so when it comes out on DVD we will add it to the collection.

Last edited by Merc Cruzer; 11-15-2019 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 11-15-2019, 07:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: FORD vs FERRARI

Just saw it this afternoon and thought it was great. I did catch one error though. It was only for a second or so but of one of the interior shots of the race car at speed, all the gauges were on zero. A bunch of hot rod guys kicking Enzo's ass.
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:45 AM   #23
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Default Re: FORD vs FERRARI

Saw the movie last night (Dolby sound w. curved screen). Pretty good entertainment. Still a stretch viewing Matt Damon as Carroll Shelby. There was some poetic license taken, like being able to see Willow Run from the penthouse of the glasshouse, but all in all a pretty good movie.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:56 PM   #24
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I just saw it in Imax, and yes it was awesome. Matt Damon didn't make you think of Shelby but he played the part well. The anachronisms were fewer than I expected, only real sharp car guys will pick them out.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:36 AM   #25
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I saw the movie yesterday and enjoyed it very much. I loved the cars in the movie, Cobras and others, including the '63 Country Squire. Very entertaining movie.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:08 PM   #26
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I apologize for the long copy/paste, but I thought I should post this.

FWIW I saw this on FB by Art Garner who wrote Black Noon - the book about the disastrous 1964 Indy 500.


-----------------


I so wanted to like the new Ford v Ferrari movie. Instead I came away incredibly disappointed. Disgusted at times. A few of the racing scenes are good. Others are LOL bad. Remember the movie Driven? That bad. Nothing is as bad, however, as the characterization—make that character assassination—of Ford executive Leo Beebe.
I suppose every good story needs a protagonist and an antagonist. In Ford v Ferrari the protagonists are obvious, Carroll Shelby and Ken Miles. Unlike some, I have no problem with Matt Damon and Christian Bales in those roles. I enjoyed the interaction between the two.
The antagonist is Leo Beebe. At least the character called Leo Beebe. I researched Beebe while writing Black Noon because he took over Ford’s racing program little more than a month before the fateful 1964 Indy 500.
By all accounts he was extremely bright, quiet and unassuming. He could be forceful and demanding. But nothing like the scheming, conniving, yes man portrayed in the movie.
Beebe should be remembered as a hero. He put himself through the University of Michigan in the late 1930s by working on the line at Ford’s Rouge Plant. He was captain of the basketball team as a sophomore. He also played baseball, earned six athletic letters and a Big Ten academic award. He taught high school and coached after graduating, but the bombs soon fell on Pearl Harbor and he joined the Navy.
When the Navy saw he had worked at the Rouge they sent him back to the plant. The Rouge was to become the arsenal of the free world and Beebe was to play an important role. He reported to a young ensign named Henry Ford II.
Beebe had a master’s degree in communications, but proved to be a wizard at logistics. He worked tirelessly, helping to quickly shift plant production from cars to armaments and move them around the world. At the end of the war, Ford hired him to help return the Rouge to automotive production. He then became the company’s Mr. Fixit.
Twice in the years to come he was recalled to government service for his logistical talents, first to lead humanitarian efforts for Hungarian refugees after that country’s failed revolt against communism, and again when Fidel Castro took over in Cuba and refugees flocked to the U.S. When the new Edsel Division flopped, Ford turned to Beebe to shut it down. And Beebe was in Europe trying to resurrect Ford’s brand there when Iacocca asked him to turn around Ford’s floundering racing programs. He had never been to a race. Yes, Beebe worked for Iacocca and Don Frey, not the other way around as the movie implies.
His first race was the 1964 Charlotte 600 where Fireball Roberts was badly burned. A week later he was at Indianapolis when Dave MacDonald and Eddie Sachs were killed. He went to work trying to improve safety and the racing program’s organization. He had nothing to do with Ken Miles not driving at Le Mans that year—Shelby didn’t even run Ford GTs in 1964. Pure fantasy.
As is much of the movie. There are so many inaccuracies it’s easier to identify the parts that are true. Ford did beat Ferrari and Miles did get screwed. The interaction between Miles and his wife and son is good stuff. I hope it’s true.
We’ve been asked to cut the movie makers some slack. It’s a “movie” after all. Okay, so there was no last lap, last turn pass by Miles to win the 1966 24 Hours of Daytona and save Shelby his company. He won by eight laps and that wouldn’t have been very exciting. So what if there was no final record-setting “perfect lap” by Miles at Le Mans. There probably should have been. I’ll let you decide on those cringe-worthy in-car racing shots of Bandini and Hansgen, bug-eyed, hunched over the wheel in seeming terror of racing against Miles, two of my LOL moments.
Yes, it certainly appears it was Beebe who first floated the idea of dead heat at Le Mans in 1966. Some say it was Bruce McLaren, others say it was Henry Ford himself. Unlikely. But almost everyone else, including Shelby, soon bought into the idea. Shelby was probably relieved he didn’t have to make the tough decision himself.
French officials had told Shelby and the Ford execs before the finish the dead heat wasn’t going to work after all. Everyone, including Shelby, decided not to tell the drivers on the track. There were none of the histrionics depicted in the movie. Years later Shelby said it was his fault; he should have stood up more for Miles. But in the aftermath it was Beebe who stood up and took responsibility.
Not a single reviewer I’m aware of has challenged the depiction of Beebe. Most, even automotive and racing reporters, say they never heard of him. A number have referred to him as (horror of horrors), a PR guy! I hope one or two do a little research on the subject because the hatchet job on Beebe is unacceptable and makes the movie, for me, unbearable.
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Old 11-18-2019, 06:40 PM   #27
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We are getting a group together to go with. I will try and keep an open mind after knowing Carroll Shelby for over 40yrs. and Ken Miles for an all too short amount of time.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:08 PM   #28
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Default Re: FORD vs FERRARI

Yoyodyne I'm going to enjoy the movie as it is (fiction-ish), for fun.

Interesting actual history addition you added. Thank you. Guess I might look at the book also.


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Old 11-18-2019, 09:22 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
I've set in an original GT40, does that count for anything? It was an interesting car to set in.
sat and sit.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:27 PM   #30
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Default Re: FORD vs FERRARI

Here's another clip a team effort ,the change to Goodyear tyres.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhiWRTDZ7-E&t=128s
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:19 AM   #31
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Default Re: FORD vs FERRARI

from a marketing sense. in a yr or two... or less that video could be aired on a few networks with some little changes or rights fulfillment.

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Old 11-19-2019, 02:48 AM   #32
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Default Re: FORD vs FERRARI

I just saw the movie today and thought it was great. Nitpicking on the finer points of this racing history are a waste of time and only serve to display some egos of so called experts. Go see the movie and enjoy it. The main point was that FORD WON. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 11-19-2019, 02:56 AM   #33
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I am trying to remove myself from the post, not doing a very good job. I don't think it's ego just fact - ish or film -ish. But anyway, the only reason I posted this is because we car heads don't get a movie that's mainstream. All opinions welcome, i'm tappin' out.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:13 AM   #34
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Default Re: FORD vs FERRARI

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Originally Posted by philipswanson View Post
sat and sit.
English is not my strong suite! Even if it is my one and only language!!! It really was a cool experience, we had all the time we wanted to mess around with the GT-40 (short of starting it). The interiors are very interesting, starting with the RH drive with very deep seats and the gearshift on the left hand.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:27 PM   #35
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Default Re: FORD vs FERRARI

Few movies ever tell the exact story of a historic nature. They are all based on dramatic arts and therefore are basically just for entertainment value. It's sad when they choose a villain or antagonist that wasn't so in real life but most movie goers will never know the difference. You can always blame the "Whiz Kids" but it always goes back to the head man in charge as a general rule. They have the most skin in the game. Some keep a real close eye on what's going on with their company like Henry Ford did. Others sort of let others keep an eye on things like Henry Ford II did. He's the one that was trying to get even with Enzo Ferrari when he wouldn't sell out to Ford Motor Company over a racing team dispute.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:44 PM   #36
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Default Re: FORD vs FERRARI

It's a movie... entertainment; not a documentary and well worth the money IMHO.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:46 PM   #37
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It's a movie... entertainment; not a documentary and well worth the money IMHO.
Here Here! Well said!
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:43 PM   #38
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Default Re: FORD vs FERRARI

I'm going to see it tonight. I too, have trouble, picturing Matt Damon as Carol.

I followed this, closely as it unfolded and remember when I first heard of Ken Miles death at Riverside.

This part of Ford's racing, as well as Ford's entry into Indy car and F1, is what caused me to take the leap, into Formula Car racing.
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Old 11-19-2019, 04:06 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by koates View Post
I just saw the movie today and thought it was great. Nitpicking on the finer points of this racing history are a waste of time and only serve to display some egos of so called experts. Go see the movie and enjoy it. The main point was that FORD WON. Regards, Kevin.
It's not "nitpicking on the finer points of this racing history"! If the movie is not accurate, it is not history! Yet it's advertised as being history. Therefore it should be as accurate as possible. The problem is that the public, by and large, accepts movies such as this one as being factual and thus have a skewed view of what really happened.
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:12 PM   #40
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Read the fine print; this movie is based on a book not authorized by Ford, which while I have not read it, undoubtedly takes artistic license left right and center as do many authors when writing historical novels. The history in this case if followed line by line would bore movie goers to tears. All of the Company people are pretty much misrepresented (I was there), especially Mr. Ford and Leo Beebe, but that's the tension that the screenwriters used to create "their" story, not "the" story that actually transpired. Note that the Company did not endorse this movie as being historically accurate or in any other way. As was said above, it is not a documentary film, but a Hollywood effort to make a film with broad appeal without being burdened to sticking with the facts at every turn. As was also noted repeatedly above, after all the tumult and shouting, the end is dead nuts accurate to history.
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