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Old 12-27-2014, 01:55 PM   #1
hotrodcbx
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Default Crank pulley Question

I will be installing a one piece front crank seal on my 8BA. Concerned about the spiral groove 0n the pulley shaft which may be acceptable with a rope seal but may tear a one piece. I remember years ago we would buy a very thin stainless sleeve to over the pulley shaft to eliminate any groove condition, they were available for a multitude of engines. Is one available for the flathead and if so, WHERE???.. Thanks for any help....Doug
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:05 PM   #2
TomT/Williamsburg
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

If you call the Speedway tech line, ask for the Flathead guy, and you can ask them of your question. If memory serves me the original 1-pc front seals were NOT made for the spiral grooved cranks but I do not know if that is still the case now with the newer seals.

I remember the thin sleeve for the SBC but you had to use a particular seal and perhaps a different timing chain cover.
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:05 PM   #3
Tony, NY
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Speedi-sleeve by Chicago Rawhide. #99162. NAPA did sell them. Here it is.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...162_0339197379
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Old 12-27-2014, 04:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Surly a sleeve over the old spiral adds another leak point/risk.
I'd imagine that whatever is used to hold or support the seal in the timing cover and sump will also add another, and complicate further removal of the timing cover should the need arise?
I'm not anti new ideas, just in the if it ain't broke, or keep it simple camp.
Sure they tend to weep a little often times, but only a weep.
This is my opinion.
Could I ask as to why you feel it's necessary to do this modification? Genuinely interested in your opinion, not start a smit slinging contest.
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Old 12-27-2014, 04:48 PM   #5
Tony, NY
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Installation instructions. These have been in use for who knows how long.
http://s7d9.scene7.com/is/content/GenuinePartsCompany/1627428pdf?$PDF$
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Old 12-27-2014, 05:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Speedy sleeve will get it done.

R
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Old 12-27-2014, 06:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Just like so many other things I have heard good and bad about the 1 piece seals. I still use the white rope seals. The trick is getting them packed in correctly. I put one in mine 4 years ago and it has held with no leaks. Wish I could do the same with the rear. No matter how hard I try there is always a little seep after a while. Let us know how it works when you get it in.
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Old 12-28-2014, 12:20 AM   #8
hotrodcbx
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Hi Scooter.. I have a well built 296" blown 8BA with the 1 piece seal with over 25,000 miles on it with never a sign of oil leak. It has the one piece seal but the blower pulley shaft did not have the spiral groove. I guess we all stick to what works for us. Thanks for all the input....
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Old 12-28-2014, 09:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Thanks for reply, I can see why you like them.
I'm still a bit itchy on a thin sleeve over the scroll. Sure I seen a smooth direct replacement for the scroll from one of the vendors that sell the one piece seal. Seems like a better idea, that should then seal like the blower pulley on your other engine.
Martin.
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:05 AM   #10
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Correct me if I'm wrong! But didn't Ford engineers put the spiral groove on the crank pulley to sling or direct the oil back away from the seal?
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:10 AM   #11
scooder
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

The discussion is about a one piece rubber seal in place of the rope original seal.
Yes your correct the scroll does just that, but the rubber seal works best on a smooth surface.
Martin.
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Old 12-28-2014, 12:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

I have a one piece seal that's riding on a repair sleeve on a worn old pulley surface. Next time I'll take it to the lathe and true up the pulley surface so as to reduce the distortion of the sleeve.

Use silicone to fill up the spiral...

In the meantime, it works perfectly.

Karl
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Old 12-28-2014, 01:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrodcbx View Post
I will be installing a one piece front crank seal on my 8BA. Concerned about the spiral groove 0n the pulley shaft which may be acceptable with a rope seal but may tear a one piece. I remember years ago we would buy a very thin stainless sleeve to over the pulley shaft to eliminate any groove condition, they were available for a multitude of engines. Is one available for the flathead and if so, WHERE???.. Thanks for any help....Doug
Hi Doug, use the "correct" pieces together and have no issues!

We use both the 1-pc "Neoprene" seal along with the "spiral-less" sleeve, never had as much as a slight drip from the front, ever. We also leave this as a customer option, some still want the older style setup??

We move a number of these pieces during the course of a year.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a shot of both sleeve types and the 1-pc seals. I don't have the 2-pc seals handy today and most are packaged in the full gasket sets anyway.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Flathead Timing Cover Seals-Sleeves.JPG (67.0 KB, 101 views)
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Old 12-29-2014, 05:17 PM   #14
Don W/Norfolk
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

I just installed a Federal Mogul sleeve (Part No. 99162) on my 8BA. Had to warm it with a 100w light bulb (direct contact for about 10 minutes) before it would start on the crank snout. The included driver wouldn't go all the way so I used a short piece of 2" PVC pipe with a PVC cap installed on it. Went on very smoothly and I expect it to solve both the spiral and the worn groove problems. dw
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Old 09-07-2019, 07:47 AM   #15
glennpm
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

I know this is an old thread but looking at this type of seal for my 1946-1948 59A motor. Will it work or is there another sleeve that will fit the earlier crank snout?


Thanks,
Glenn
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Old 09-07-2019, 08:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

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Originally Posted by glennpm View Post
I know this is an old thread but looking at this type of seal for my 1946-1948 59A motor. Will it work or is there another sleeve that will fit the earlier crank snout?


Thanks,
Glenn
Hi Glenn, believe they are the same for the 59 and the 8BA, we use the 1 pc on all our builds. Most builds here are the 8BA units.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a shot of both the setups, the 1-pc seal is the only way to go nowadays. This does require the non-spiraled sleeve though!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Flathead Timing Cover Seals-Sleeves.JPG (67.3 KB, 18 views)
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Old 09-07-2019, 08:49 AM   #17
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Thanks Gary!


I have the spiral sleeve and rope now with a small leak. Searching this morning, I found a sleeve and rubber ring kit but it was listed for the 8BA motor. I was wondering if the smooth sleeve ID is the same for the 59A and 8BA and whether this smooth sleeve replacement would work? the picture is good.



Glenn
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Old 09-07-2019, 12:56 PM   #18
john in illinois
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

I have a 59a that came with the rubber seal. The sleeve shown in Gary's pic is an 8ba part I believe.
I needed to replace the pulley so I parted off the spiral part of a 59 pulley and cut a 45* on the end to match the sleeve. Works fine.

John
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Last edited by john in illinois; 09-07-2019 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 09-07-2019, 01:31 PM   #19
glennpm
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Hi John,


Regarding Gary's pic, I'm not sure why there are two sleeves in the plastic bags to the right. Do you use one or the other and are the ID and ODs the same for the 59A and the 8BA V8 crank snouts and pulley inside diameters? Then will my pulley form the 59A work with either of these replacement sleeves, spiraled or smooth?

Do I understand that you have used the spiral sleeve type extension with the rubber seal and its leak free?


Thanks!

Last edited by glennpm; 09-07-2019 at 02:14 PM. Reason: major clarification ... I hope
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: Crank pulley Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpm View Post
Hi John,


Regarding Gary's pic, I'm not sure why there are two sleeves in the plastic bags to the right. Do you use one or the other and are the ID and ODs the same for the 59A and the 8BA V8 crank snouts and pulley inside diameters? Then will my pulley form the 59A work with either of these replacement sleeves, spiraled or smooth?

Do I understand that you have used the spiral sleeve type extension with the rubber seal and its leak free?


Thanks!
Hi Glenn, don't take the risk of using a spiraled sleeve with the 1-pc seal, it's just not worth it??

It may work but if it doesn't it's a big deal to fix on a Flathead?

The I.D.'s on both type sleeves (these are all new in the photo) are different sizes, I actually have no clue why and since we don't use the spiraled ones it doesn't really matter here. The I.D. on the spiraled ones measures 1.316" and the smooth ones measure 1.313", this is a much better size for the fit on the crank!

Both the early and the late cranks are the same sizes on the snouts (I believe) where the sleeves/dampers ride? However, on rare occasions when we work with the early shafts most are worn down to about 1.305", again, have no clue why, can only venture a guess. Nowadays almost every shaft we use is aftermarket and new.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. The sleeves in the bag just happened to be there for the photo shoot!
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