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Old 09-07-2014, 07:49 PM   #141
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Last couple of days as I found time I have pressure washed, diesel fuel cleaned with brush, Purple power, water and wire brush on drill. I cleanded pounds of solid grease off the rear end of the 39LZ. This is what I came up with, very red. QUESTION for today?? I cleaned up old solid froze grease from fitting in the middle of torque tube, the fitting sticks out about 3/4" and now leaks oil, why is it leaking oil, does the fitting that lubes mid shaft bearing need repaired??? Any info appreciated.
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Before photo of rear end
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After clean up
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Grease Fitting in Torque Tube
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Old 09-08-2014, 06:56 AM   #142
Ken/Alabama
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

On the Lincoln axle there shouldn't be any oil in the torque tube. With the Hypoid style rear the pinion is mounted low in the banjo housing. To keep the oil from running out ,there is a seal at the pinion. To change the seal the torque tube must be removed. Fords don't have this seal because they have a straddle mounted pinion and it's up higher.
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Old 09-09-2014, 05:50 AM   #143
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Ken/everyon, will try and get the seal and replace while out, does not sound like a problem to do while out of car and everything is clean. I took the GAS TANK to Don P. and we/he made two metal covers for the inspection holes I cut in tank. Drilled the cover with larger holes than tank and drilled the holes for SS screws correct size for screws. Don cut two cork gaskets, we coated with the red tank sealer and tighten up. Should be there for the next generation! Loading up the rear end this morning to take to Don P's garage to see if he/we can remove that hub, if we must, blasting is now not ruled out!
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Gas tank # 1 hole prep work
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Gas tank #2 hole prep work
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Gas tank metal cover and cork gasket Don made with gasket cutter, red sealer
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Gas tank cover installed
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:23 AM   #144
BILL WZOREK
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH View Post
Last couple of days as I found time I have pressure washed, diesel fuel cleaned with brush, Purple power, water and wire brush on drill. I cleanded pounds of solid grease off the rear end of the 39LZ. This is what I came up with, very red. QUESTION for today?? I cleaned up old solid froze grease from fitting in the middle of torque tube, the fitting sticks out about 3/4" and now leaks oil, why is it leaking oil, does the fitting that lubes mid shaft bearing need repaired??? Any info appreciated.
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Before photo of rear end
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After clean up
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Grease Fitting in Torque Tube
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Bruce:
If the ball was removed from the grease fitting is it possible it was put there to drain any grease that may get past the pinion seal ?
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Old 09-09-2014, 04:23 PM   #145
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Its a little late maybe but here is one method of removing the 39 rear drums. I will need to try it on mine when I get as far as the brakes.
http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/axle.htm
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Old 09-09-2014, 08:02 PM   #146
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bill, I took the special grease fitting out today, it is a grease fitting made with a 1" nipple, I thought maybe two piece but it is one. Threaded on other end it treads into the middle carrier bearing housing so bearing gets grease. The oil comes out from around the grease fitting nipple, so if there is a small gap around the nipple(which there is) any oil in tube will leak. With torque tube in car it is higher than oil level in rear end on level ground.
Ralph G., I would now not recommend that, I found out today that the axle will not take any or very little abuse before it bends the threaded portion of axle or collapses the threads. After heating several time in past weeks, soaking in PB Blaster, leaving the hub puller on for days at a time, we/Don P. had to take a cutting wheel to the hub. We placed a 1/2" EMT coupling over threads to protect and cut the hub over the axle key. Place the Hub puller on hub and tighten up, Don took a cold chisel and small hammer and tapped the hub in the cut and it POPPED. Removed hub, have a slight bend in the threaded end of axle now. Also, removed the shocks from the shock links today, they too are tapered. Looking for a good hub, did not touch the drum.
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Don P. relieving the hub with cold chisel
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Removing the drum for first time, light weight puller is all it took once relieved of pressure
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Thought it was a thumbs up moment, Don said it was a TWO thumbs up!!!!!!!
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:00 PM   #147
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Hated to tear up a good drum,better a drum than an axle, that's the second drum I've seen like that,only way was to cut it off ,just needed the housing for my Columbia.
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:15 PM   #148
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I have not been paying attention but I now realize, looking at your photos , your Lincoln has a different bolt pattern than my Ford Deluxe which has the typical old Ford five bolts way out on the outer diameter of the drum. And I thought the hub and drum were one piece on mine. Now I will have to go out to the shed and have a look. Unless somebody can correct me before I do that.
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:51 AM   #149
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphG View Post
I have not been paying attention but I now realize, looking at your photos , your Lincoln has a different bolt pattern than my Ford Deluxe which has the typical old Ford five bolts way out on the outer diameter of the drum. And I thought the hub and drum were one piece on mine. Now I will have to go out to the shed and have a look. Unless somebody can correct me before I do that.
Lincoln used the wide bolt pattern until mid year 38 then changed to the 5 1/2" bolt pattern. Ford didn't make the change till 40.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:40 AM   #150
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Traveled yesterday to Mac VanPelt's with Don P., showed up and he was already working in his shop. Unloaded the 39LZ transmission and we quickly took apart. Inspected several parts for wear that could or would cause a problem once I get the car rolling under its own power. Got a quick class on how all the synchronizers work and engage as you shift and the problem he saw in a Fordbarn photo I posted of the synchronizer. The lack of space between the synchronizer and gear was the give away of synchronizer worn out and not grabbing the gear and bringing up to speed. Inspected all gears, shafts, bearings, case and shifting tower for problems. I will return next week to pick up the transmission. We also got a tour of the shop, tools and his inventory of transmissions, engines and V8 parts. We went to lunch in his 42 Tudor, just a very enjoyable time was had by Don and I. Thanks Mac and Will
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Transmissions neon sign
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Arriving and taking transmission apart
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Synchronizer space correct photo, if you have no space it is worn out.
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worn out
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Main shaft that has wear and is best replaced, he had several that are NOS and also a used shaft that was good.
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I have no information of cars past mechanical repairs, we found two of the short roller bearings that one had wear on rollers and one that looked new, at some time in past someone has replaced limited parts. We/I learned the function of the rear thrust washer, mine was in fairly good shape with the babbit groves still showing, Mac said he has seen some very thin and makes for a lot of travel.
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Not all the photos or information, but all for today , Except Mac's 42 Tudor, on our way to Lunch.
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Old 09-11-2014, 08:14 AM   #151
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Lookin' good but, I gotta ask; Mac, what's with those baby white walls...??? LOL
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:52 PM   #152
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Ken/Vic, everyone, I removed the Torque tube today so that I could replace the seal between the banjo and tube (National seal #450082), removed little retainer ring in front of speedo gear, speedo gear, removed torque tube, removed the drive shaft, NOW? I have to remove the double nut holding the pinion gear to get to the seal retainer holder. Question is what would it do to the settings of pinion and what does it re-torque to??? Information appreciated, thanks Bruce
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photo of pinion and the double nut with retainer washer ( looks like the double nut is one piece with one side locked with washer )
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Drive shaft/torque tube had a lot of oil in tube when I removed, oil had only traveled as far as the torque tube middle support bearing
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Does this ever happen to you?, "Man I hate when this happens!!!!"
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Old 09-15-2014, 06:19 PM   #153
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Might have found several answers to the question about removing the lock ring and loosening the pinion nuts. Also found out what to set the nuts back to after the new pinion oil seal is installed. Let me know what you think, Bruce
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1. http://www.oldengine.org/members/sou...xles-M444a.pdf
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2. You need to check the preload on pinion before taking apart. It is in inch
pounds around 20 in #. It should take about 20 in. # to make it turn
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3. 07-28-2010, 10:13 AM #3
Bruce Lancaster
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Default Re: Pinion pre-load...
Pete, here are the numbers I have stacked up:
Pinion bearing torque: A-B type, 3547 inch pounds, Model 18 1932-4 20-25 inch pounds, 12-16 later rear 1935-48

KRW tool has no spring, but what I did last time was to simply find some big regular socket that was able to crudely snag the splines plus several adaptors to hook the big socket to a tiny inch-pound torque wrench.
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Old 09-15-2014, 07:47 PM   #154
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Wife got the blue model paint for me from hobby shop today, I painted the numbers/letters on my 39LZ Ohio plates this evening. You have to paint the plate correct color for the year (1939 - white with blue letters ) In Ohio we can register the plates to car as the permanent plate, historical plates are good for 50 years. You pay one time and do not have to go back every year like my car, truck and trailer, also if you look at an OHIO sticker it has the birthday day and month of the owner on small county sticker.
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Old 09-20-2014, 06:54 AM   #155
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Traveled to Mac VanPelt's Sales LLC and picked up my Zephyr transmission last Wednesday with Don P. We still went over several items about the transmissions, synchronizers, transmission oil and rear end oil he recommends. ( 140#GL4 transmission and 90#GL5 Columbia rear end ). Removal of transmission all started because of stuck clutch and Mac viewing a photo of my transmission on Fordbarn. I installed transmission yesterday evening and I manually rotated the transmission in gear with pedal depressed and the clutch NOW works. BUT, I am telling you something is not correct (not with transmission) it is the linkage and adjustment of clutch, I am still at the limit of adjustment on the clutch. I can only think that several things have changed in 75 years. 1. the fly wheel has been re-surfaced to a point that it has moved way from bell housing. 2. The arm on the transmission shaft in not correct. 3. there is a thick throw out bearing needed on yoke. 4. the throw out bearing yoke is wrong and does not push the bearing far enough. I now have about 1/2 space between fingers and throw out bearing. When I adjust to make pressure plate release the clutch release arm is almost against the bell housing. Any info and information to correct before I install the rear end again appreciated, BJ
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Mac, me, Will
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Labor rates that Don P. thought was helpful
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He did have two Zephyr transmissions in shop that day, very interesting story about the other Zephyr cars history.
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Old 09-20-2014, 08:29 AM   #156
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Some photos of the TO bearing, clutch release arm, and any other questionable parts would be good. You want to adjust the linkage so the clutch pedal (while sitting on it's bumper) has about 1" of movement before the TO touches the fingers on the PP. Small movement of the linkage should result in a bit of movement to the TO. So 1/2" of space between the TO and PP fingers does not sound too unreasonable. You may want to check embossed part numbers on some of the parts with a part book. If Mac has a second transmission in the shop maybe he can comparer the two arms by photo and dimensions

Last edited by Terry,OH; 09-20-2014 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:10 PM   #157
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Terry, thanks for info, the second Zephyr transmission was a 1940 Continental. Here are some of the photos I took today after I installed the rear end back under car.
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1939 Zephyr transmission
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39 linkage
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Torque tube connected today, going the right direction now, should have driving this week!
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:03 AM   #158
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Lookin' good Bruce. I'm looking forward to reading about your first driving experience... I love the way our LZ drives.
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Old 09-27-2014, 07:55 PM   #159
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Well it finally happened, I finished a legal pad of several pages of small items, got in car and started engine. Now for the big moment, will it go in gear, IT WORKS, it will go in gear with out grinding. NEXT, will the the clutch work so I can pull of lift, ITS ALIVE!!!! Backed up and now for the last item, wonder if brakes work, yes I can stop but they need adjusted. So off the hill I go and behind me is a Contrail of blue smoke. The oil mix of plain oil, MMO and ATF used when I freed motor up is burning out of the front exhaust heat exchanger and also out of the tube type muffler. This is the warmest/hottest that motor/exhaust system has been sense I have had car. Drove up and down my small one lane road which is only a mile long several times. (no mosquitoes out tonight with the fog I laid down ) Every thing seems to work fine, have not had a location yet to try the Columbia, going to BMV ( Bureau of Motor Vehicles ) to get a verification of serial number now that I can load up to travel. Next I need to replace the wiring, thinking of getting a modern wiring harness and placing in old style cloth tube cover with fuse block. When I did stop car and turn engine off the radiator sounded like you had eaten bad food and your stomach was upset, will have to see what happens or if you have an idea why, my mechanical water temp. gauge says temp was about 180 when I turned off. Thanks for all the help along the way, still have a long way to go but trying to get lights working, generator charging in next two weeks so I can drive about 60 miles each way to one of the last cruise-ins of year. (southern OHIO gets cold ) thanks Bruce
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Yes I will put hub caps on before going out in Public!!!
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Might even try the fender skirts ???? do not want one to fall off!
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Old 09-27-2014, 08:13 PM   #160
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

That's great news Bruce. The correct wiring harness is available for your car. I have installed them in two 39 Zephyrs and one Continental. They fit really good and look correct.
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