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Old 11-11-2019, 08:03 AM   #1
rockfla
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Default Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

Got the 39 Mercury in my shop and has been sitting for two years....It had Ethanol gas in it and run through it so I drained the tank and flushed it, rebuilt the carb and fuel pump. I pulled the distributor and cleaned the points (distributor was set up by Hoop on a Sun machine when running). The battery I metered at 6.3 volts, spun the car, NO spark. I checked the coil lead and its showing 5.4 volts at the coil. So I pulled the coil and the condenser and put a new IH 200 on it with a machine screw holding the lead to "see" IF possibly it was the condenser......SAME result......NO spark!! SO first question......Is the condenser grounded via the bracket that is attached to the condenser???? IF not then logic says check the coil SO best method on doing that???? and or next steps to take???



As an aside, the battery was a "new" battery BUT when checked with a Hydrometer, one cell was no good. Put it on a charger over night but the cell was still weak. Lights were dim and starter drug.......SO taking it back for a "fresher" battery today!!!! SO might the "low" deep cycling be the cause?????

Last edited by rockfla; 11-11-2019 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:39 AM   #2
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

The condenser is grounded through the case/mounting bracket. The battery could be the issue. The starter pulls a lot of current and a dropped cell plus the large current drop might reduce the current/voltage to the coil to the point it would not produce a spark. You would think it would still have a weak spark, but maybe not.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

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The condenser is grounded through the case/mounting bracket. The battery could be the issue. The starter pulls a lot of current and a dropped cell plus the large current drop might reduce the current/voltage to the coil to the point it would not produce a spark. You would think it would still have a weak spark, but maybe not.

Well, that answers the question about the IH 200, I didn't transfer the mounting bracket so it wasn't grounded.......Still not sure even it I un-solder it and re-solder it to the IH200 how its gonna stay solid??? Any recommendations on a "possible" NAPA condenser that will work like the originial????
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:47 AM   #4
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

The condenser is a ground path for the coil as are the points. The points are a switch that turn on and off the current flow while the condenser is a capacitor which charges up with the points open and then discharges when the points close. The case of the condenser has to be grounded in order for it to charge. How is you condenser mounted or held in place?
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:53 AM   #5
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

All electrical troubleshooting begins at the battery. It has taken me a long time to realize that "New" does not equal "Good". Unless you are buying airplane parts, I don't think there is ANY quality control on parts anymore. Get another battery and keep it on a tender. I bet that is your problem, when the starter is turning the car over the voltage at the coil will drop. In your case, below a critical value at which point the coil will not create a spark. I think this value is 3 or 4 volts.
Good luck.
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:03 AM   #6
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

Another question would be what style coil is being used? If it is a 6v "can" coil you need to by-pass the original ignition resistor under the dash. The resistor will drop the voltage to the coil below what it needs to operate correctly. The original Ford style coils required the ballast resistor, a "can" coil does not, and will not function properly with it in the circuit.
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:07 AM   #7
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

Voltage number is in the high range...is the contacts really making contact or is there still oxide on them ?
I would make sure they are really clean before doing anything else...
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:03 AM   #8
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

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The condenser is a ground path for the coil as are the points. The points are a switch that turn on and off the current flow while the condenser is a capacitor which charges up with the points open and then discharges when the points close. The case of the condenser has to be grounded in order for it to charge. How is you condenser mounted or held in place?
The condenser is the "screw end" type that screws to the brass tab of the housing. Maybe the old condenser is still 'Okay" as the "possibility" of the low battery THUS low voltage at start up scenario sounds likely!!! I do know the IH200 I install for sure was not grounded. HAS ANYONE USED NAPA's FA49 condenser??? I'm gonna pick up a set this evening after work and try that. Oh, an original "Ford" coil. My dad was thinking of jumping the resistor, should that not be done??? I still think like above that the battery is the "main" issue at this point.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:14 AM   #9
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

On a car thats been sitting for a long time i would jumper in a 12 bolt battery and try that , it has to spin AND make spark. Temp jumper of the resistor is a ok thing as well.....once running then figure the system out and put to orginal.........sitting the points seem to grow stuff on them , we use a dremel brush to scuff usd points etc ....
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

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On a car thats been sitting for a long time i would jumper in a 12 bolt battery and try that , it has to spin AND make spark. Temp jumper of the resistor is a ok thing as well.....once running then figure the system out and put to orginal.........sitting the points seem to grow stuff on them , we use a dremel brush to scuff usd points etc ....
Bubba
I pulled the distributor off and the coil, cleaned them with a "fine" emery board then with contact cleaner. Did i miss something or a better way???
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:40 AM   #11
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

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Well, that answers the question about the IH 200, I didn't transfer the mounting bracket so it wasn't grounded.......Still not sure even it I un-solder it and re-solder it to the IH200 how its gonna stay solid??? Any recommendations on a "possible" NAPA condenser that will work like the originial????
My mind can't picture what you are referring to, about soldering the bracket. However the school I went to does not approve of heating up a condenser.
Best Luck
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:21 PM   #12
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

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My mind can't picture what you are referring to, about soldering the bracket. However the school I went to does not approve of heating up a condenser.
Best Luck
there was a post one here about a week ago showing how to modify modern condensers to work and look like originals, the were able to unsolder the mounting bracket and re intall it on a new condenser.


SORRY it was 10/11 Condenser-Helmet is the title and it was Bubba (above) that modified a condenser.

Last edited by rockfla; 11-11-2019 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

Thank you, got it.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:27 AM   #14
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

I see the word emery and I get bad thoughts. I have had problems there. I now use a file.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

To the op. I'd start on your thought of spark and there lack of.


Bubba is the go to guy to set it up timing wise and spark.


Now:
Clean grounds make good connections (it's a old car out of service) Lot of variables.


Lot of arm chair predictions. Best way is to get it at.


Condenser grounds to the motor. Theologically it does not have to ground on the dizzy, close is great. A solid engine ground is not a bad thing.

Last edited by Tinker; 11-12-2019 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

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To the op. I'd start on your thought of spark and there lack of.


Bubba is the go to guy to set it up timing wise and spark.


Now:
Clean grounds make good connections (it's a old car out of service) Lot of variables.


Lot of arm chair predictions. Best way is to get it at.


Condenser grounds to the motor. Theologically it does not have to ground on the dizzy, close is great. A solid engine ground is not a bad thing.
While waiting on dad to show up, after I re-installed the fuel pump and Carb, I went through all the battery cables and cleaned all ends, nuts, washers, and all contact points and put dielectric grease on all mentioned. Good thought, I will throw it up on the lift and chase ANY other grounds and clean them as well.


Thanks
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Old 11-12-2019, 02:46 PM   #17
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Default Re: Igniton gureu's...next step/questions

You can remove the coil and use a analog ohm meter between the breaker plate and a ground. As you spin the engine over the needle should bounce each time the points open and close. If the needle does not bounce then the points are either not making contact or are constantly making contact. Not saying this is the issue, but it’s a easy way to eliminate the suspicion that the points are the issue. If hoop set it up for you there is zero concern about checking dwell, etc
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