Best rust solution?

[Old Henry]

I just removed these water pumps that had sprung a leak. As far as I know these were clean when my engine was rebuilt in June.



This is after just 5 months of running plain water and two bottles of Hy-per Lube Super Coolant that claims to prevent this kind of thing.

I'm assuming that my entire block looks this bad inside so would like your best ideas of how to dissolve this rust and I'll try some of the most popular ideas on this stuff and see what happens.

[Jack E/NJ]

Henry---Once the pulley is off the shaft, you're home-free. The shaft assembly should easily push thru the bushing or bearing .

As for the rust, buy a few gallon jugs of bulk white vinegar at the supermarket. Use it straight. Run it for a few days. Drain. Neutralize with washing soda or baking soda solution. Drain again. Then put 50/50 anti-freeze in it.


Jack E/NJ

[FlatheadTed]

Good advice on the Vinegar but It takes a lot to get rust out of a block the rust there looks like its a 50 year build up ,most engine reconditions don't have the aggressive chemicals to clean a block properly ,it takes a specialist rust stripper such as someone like Ready strip . To make any impact on that rust you would likely need the Vinegar in there for months .then I would want the heads and radiator of because of the gaskets ,The Vinegar is good for braking down the build up on top of the radiator tubes and as a light radiator clean three or four weeks ,I would just run stockings in the hoses ,

[flatford8]

Why do you run straight water and not anti-freeze with a rust inhibitor? Doesn't it get below freezing where you live?.....Mark

[Bruce Lancaster]

If it were my engine, I'd shake loose a few $ and fillitup with evaporust. Eats the rust, no side effects because no acid or caustic. it will eventually eat all the rust away to nothingness, but stocking filters would still be a good idea because dissolving the rust will likely shake loose other stuff from the sludge pit down there. An ideal solution would be to swap in a crummy spare radiator so you can freely run the thing to circulate the solution AND to heat it up for faster action.
When you eventually drain out the evaporust, it will look really awful but will probably still have considerable power in a derusting tank. I love the stuff...it gets all the rust and does not damage anything, even zinc.

[Mart]

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Every car that is built is filled with a mixture of water and anti-freeze. The anti-freeze has all sorts of additives to promote trouble free motoring for millions and millions of motorists.

Personally, that's all I do. Water and antifreeze. Why do people with old cars think there is a better way to do it? if there was, the factories would be doing it. They have to stand behind a lengthy warranty on every car they make. The stuff they use isn't some magic unobtainable magic potion, it's just good quality stuff you can buy at a parts place.

Mart.

[bobH]

I'd offer the opinion that the picts shown by the professor do NOT represent what has happened in five months. Probably been a good long time since those parts were really clean. Seems like it was posted some time ago that his engine was hot-tanked (or some modern substitute) at rebuild time. No way the current 'tank-cleaning-methods' are going to get this sort of stuff out. My guess would be that these pumps are quite a bit older than 5 months, perhaps even the 30K miles that has been mentioned. There have been several old posts on what it takes to really clean a block, and I would defer to those posts.
Seems like Ron, and maybe JWL, have mentioned the 'bake n shake' method of block cleaning. And, there have been a few posts on the chemical cleaning process (which some of us are a little afraid of). And, there have been posts on here regarding the technique of poking down through the deck holes to break-out the bad stuff, with a sharpened slim steel rod. And, even one post about running a long drill from the front, through the water-pump hole, to drill through some nasty rust between the cylinder and the wall. As far as I'm able to recall, I don't think Henry reported on any of this stuff being done at rebuild time. I'd speculate that his engine had a 'cursory' cleaning, with most of the old stuff remaining in there. Just speculation, JMO.

[Bruce Lancaster]

bobH is probably correct, though there is also the possibility that they got the block REALLYDAMNCLEAN and it went to hell in a big hurry running without the antifreeze!
"chemical cleaning process (which some of us are a little afraid of)" YES! In this case, chemical cleaning is the only hope without tearing a running car apart, and the Evaporust is the only chemical I know of that is really effective at rust eating and not capable of eating iron and/or whatever it encounters in the radiator. If this is to work, it will need a lot of chemical in there for a substantial amount of time, and most alternatives are acid or caustic and will eventually eat anything they can find, like the fox sent to get rid of the mice in the chicken coop...
Evapo will be safe.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by flatford8

Why do you run straight water and not anti-freeze with a rust inhibitor? Doesn't it get below freezing where you live?.....Mark

Here is my answer from my related thread here: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122565

"After I overheated a few times I got desperate to do anything that would lower the temperature just a few degrees that could be the difference between just real hot and boiling out the coolant.

I usually ran anti-freeze all year round before that but will go back to that now. Probably not the full 50/50 mix but at least a gallon or two out of my 5 gallon system.

Maintaining and adjusting these old cars is so often like a "Fiddler on the Roof" balancing between two competing needs and interests. Rarely is the full extreme on either end of a spectrum the correct balance."

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

bobH is probably correct, though there is also the possibility that they got the block REALLYDAMNCLEAN and it went to hell in a big hurry running without the antifreeze!
"chemical cleaning process (which some of us are a little afraid of)" YES! In this case, chemical cleaning is the only hope without tearing a running car apart, and the Evaporust is the only chemical I know of that is really effective at rust eating and not capable of eating iron and/or whatever it encounters in the radiator. If this is to work, it will need a lot of chemical in there for a substantial amount of time, and most alternatives are acid or caustic and will eventually eat anything they can find, like the fox sent to get rid of the mice in the chicken coop...
Evapo will be safe.

I like the looks and sounds of the Evapo-Rust. I'd not heard of it before and just read up all about it. I wanted to make sure that it was safe for engine blocks. Sure enough. It removes the rust by a chelation process rather than acid which is much safer for the underlying steel and all other metals. Here are the instructions on the web site for cooling systems. Looks like it shouldn't take more than overnight.

1. Drain cooling system and rinse with water.
2. Fill system with Evapo-Rust®. (Do NOT dilute.)
3. Run Engine under normal conditions, shut engine down and let sit, for a couple hours to overnight.
4. Drain system into a container for later use.
5. Flush system with water.
6. Repeat process (1-5) if necessary.
7. Fill system with proper coolant/antifreeze.

I've got my two test chemicals now. I'm going to soak one pump in vinegar and the other in Evapo-Rust and photograph them each day to see what happens and report.

Thanks for your ideas. Hope one of them work.

[Brian]

Pesonally, I don't like using acids of any kind on cast iron. Tends to eat out the carbon content- which is the pitting that has been observed with molassis treatments etc.Much prefer to use an alkali. As long as there is no aluminum in your cooling system [read heads], fill the system with caustic soda and drive the thing. The hotter it gets, the better the caustic works. Drain and refill as required, finally flushing with straight water. This will give you nice clean water jackets etc, improving heat transfer etc. Then, irrespective of where you live, tropics to the polar regions fill system with 50/50 mix of antifreeze and be happy.

[TStiles]

I like the looks and sounds of the Evapo-Rust. I'd not heard of it before and just read up all about it. I wanted to make sure that it was safe for engine blocks. Sure enough. Here are the instructions on the web site for cooling systems. Looks like it shouldn't take more than overnight.

1. Drain cooling system and rinse with water.
2. Fill system with Evapo-Rust®. (Do NOT dilute.)
3. Run Engine under normal conditions, shut engine down and let sit, for a couple hours to overnight.
4. Drain system into a container for later use.
5. Flush system with water.
6. Repeat process (1-5) if necessary.
7. Fill system with proper coolant/antifreeze.

I've got my two test chemicals now. I'm going to soak one pump in vinegar and the other in Evapo-Rust and photograph them each day to see what happens and report.

Thanks for your ideas. Hope one of them work.


'Looks like you might be onto something. Please keep us posted on this.

[Bruce Lancaster]

I nice thing about the evapo is that you will end up with 5 gallons or so of dirty but probably still effective solution, and you'll be able to just pitch everything you drag home from junkyard or fleamarket into that and let it perk without worries...

[39wdy]

Prof. Henry, I have a beat up looking radiator that I have used on my test stand it is the same type as you have installed in Old Henry. If I could figure out how to get it to you from Vermont, I would let you run that until your block was cleaned out. Although this radiator looks bad it absolutely works quite well. I think someone suggested using a less valuable radiator while cleaning out your block.
I also have a very interesting adjustable thermostat in my collection that I thought might be a possible solution to your heating problems. However, it looks like you have some rusty sludge there which is definitely affecting the engine's ability to regulate temperature.
Please let me know if I can help in any way, my wife and I so enjoy your travels in the West we hate to think you won't be out there taking more beautiful pictures for all of our enjoyment.
Toby and Jennifer

[FlatheadTed]

I personally wouldn't use anty freeze because of the variation on expiry dates it becomes very corrosive after two or three years ,specially on Aluminium heads, this is a head I removed after welding it up twice at the casket face.With two incidents of water in the oil .

[Jack E/NJ]

I thought the fluorescent dyes used in anti-freeze lose their fluorescent qualities to indicate that they should be replaced?

Jack E/NJ

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by 39wdy

Prof. Henry, I have a beat up looking radiator that I have used on my test stand it is the same type as you have installed in Old Henry. If I could figure out how to get it to you from Vermont, I would let you run that until your block was cleaned out. I think someone suggested using a less valuable radiator while cleaning out your block.
Toby and Jennifer

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

. . . swap in a crummy spare radiator so you can freely run the thing to circulate the solution AND to heat it up for faster action.

I'm not sure what all of this discussion about radiators is. Mine is good. It was totally checked out and cleaned out by the local radiator shop in June while the engine was being rebuilt. It's clean as a whistle. It's my engine block that I think probably has as much rust as my water pumps do and is very likely the cause of the chronic heat problems I've had. Hopefully I'll find out that either vinegar or Evapo-Rust will clean that out so I don't have to worry about overheating any more.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Brian

Pesonally, I don't like using acids of any kind on cast iron.

Good thing about Evapo-rust is that it is neither acid nor alkaline so no worries about extreme pH.

[Kahuna]

Where is Evapo sold? I've not seen it.
Thanks

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Kahuna

Where is Evapo sold? I've not seen it.
Thanks

O’Reilly’s Auto Parts is where I just bought mine.

Also at:

Pep Boys
AutoZone
Advance Auto Parts
Fastenal
Harbor Freight
Mustangs Unlimited
Northern Tool & Equipment
RustRemover.net
Summit Racing
The Rust Store
True Value
Workshop Tools

5 gal. bucket at Sears