The Ford Barn

Tom Walker · 08-28-2014, 06:25 AM

I have original block in my tudor, and changed the heads last weekend.
Was disappointed to see 0.060" pistons in, and searching threads the advice seems to be that I cant bore any more.

My question to engine gurus is: would there be any improvement if I dropped the rods and pistons, honed the block and put new rings in?

Smokes quite bad specially when filled to top mark on dipstick.

Thanks, Tom.

alanwoodieman · 08-28-2014, 06:51 AM

what year engine? how many miles does the engine have on it? do the bores show honing marks? has it been severly overheated? does the engine smoke more after you let thengine slow the car down and then accelerate? need some more info to answer your question.

G.M. · 08-28-2014, 07:03 AM

How much oil is in the engine?? Drain and try 4 quarts don't go by the dip stick. G.M.

51 MERC-CT · 08-28-2014, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Walker

Smokes quite bad specially when filled to top mark on dipstick.

Thanks, Tom.

Some engines will lose/burn oil until it reaches a sweet spot on the dipstick and then stop. Next time don't add oil to the top and see if helps, if it does then don't over fill.

oldford2 · 08-28-2014, 07:28 AM

Have you measured the bores??

Tom Walker · 08-28-2014, 07:31 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Thanks I'll try 4 quarts.
I don't know how many miles are on this re-bore. Unfortunately I didn't measure the bores while the heads were off.
It smokes blue smoke out tail pipe under acceleration.
Thanks, Tom.

Ol' Ron · 08-28-2014, 07:41 AM

If the above doesn't work try honing the bore then Knurel the pistons, with a srto of new rings. After instillation place a HARD load on the engine. To insure ring seating. The problrm might have been improper ring brake in caused by too much running on a stand or with out a load. Knurling the pistons will tighen the piston to bore clearance.

Bill OH · 08-28-2014, 08:57 AM

Oil return holes under rings may be plugged - try using a good detergent 20w oil for 2k miles and see what happens. I had a 221 CI in the early 50s that did the same thing that you are experiencing and the detergent oil solved the oil burning problem.

ford3 · 08-28-2014, 11:36 AM

im kinda lost, what year engine are you working on? a 4 banger or v/8, most v/8's can be bored to over a 100 thousand, if you re ring the motor use hastings steel vent rings, they are cast iron and seat fast, they are very flexible and can hold oil and compression on badly worn and out of round cylinders

scooder · 08-28-2014, 12:12 PM

Mr Ford 3.
Original engine in the Tudor, that would be a 32 V8. These do not go 100 over in most cases. Some fall through at 080 over. And 060" over is as he said, about as far as you can safely go.
I do agree, with cast rings, good hone, nurled pistons sounds good but have no experience with them. But if Ron says so, that's good with me. Again from Ron, HARD load, to seat them. You really do need to load them up for the best seating. I've bought engines back from an oily smoky grave like this. Including seized stuff that I've had to beat the living out of them to get them apart. With quite horrible bores. Good hone, soft rings ans drive it like you stole it. Cus I couldn't afford a rebore and pistons and rings. Last one is in my Cortina, did this about 5 years back. Still drive it every day, including 70mph up the (4000rpm) motorway to work. Still going good.
Got to be worth a go.
Martin.

JWL · 08-28-2014, 12:23 PM

The obvious answer is, YES, hone and re-ring is sure to help. How much and for how long will depend on the original status at the time the job is done. Ford made "Steel Section" ring sets for worn engines. These had strong expanders behind the second compression ring and would seal almost anything.

ford3 · 08-28-2014, 01:38 PM

scrooder, sorry about the 100 over, but no where in his post did he say it was a 32, and im no mind reader

scooder · 08-28-2014, 01:56 PM

No problem bud, I just looked at his little picture by his name (avatar) and assumed 1932.
Martin.

Karl Wolf · 08-28-2014, 02:14 PM

If re-ringing, get a ridge reamer and learn how to use it... The ridge at the top of the cylinder left by the wear of the old top ring will make short work of the top edge of the new top ring...

You can measure cylinder wear- taper- using an old ring and feeler gauge. Square up the old ring in an unworn (lower) part of the cylinder. Measure the gap- feeler gauge. Then put ring at the top, note how much more ring end gap there is and divide by 3.14 = taper in the cylinder... Old guy told me when I was young that maximum taper should be under .010" .

Karl

richard crow · 08-28-2014, 03:24 PM

how maney miles do you drive it in a year if less then 5,000 & it runs good leave it alone. if some one says any thing about the smoke tell em its an antique crop duster

OLD...BILL · 08-28-2014, 03:40 PM

GOOD ADVISE HERE; ..and no one said to soak it with MMO ( Marvel Mystery Oil ??) for two three days ?? pull the plugs and pour in the MMO. all cylinders... it will clean out the rings, and free em up ?? ...AND no one said anything about "SLEEVES" that engine could be sleeved back to stock, or 20 , 40 over, and go for another 100 000 miles, it would be like an all new engine inside. yes your going to spend and dollar or two. but its all new inside and will run like it to, been there done that ...... OLD.....BILL

Tom Walker · 08-28-2014, 04:03 PM

Thats got to be the best bunch of replies I've ever had to a post!....but Scooder wins hands down...man after my own heart. So new rings it is and seat the buggers with a good thrashing, I'll enjoy that!

Can you get rings for 1952 German Mahle pistons??!!

Tom Walker · 08-28-2014, 04:10 PM

Ol' Ron, how exactly do you knurl pistons?
I have a knurling tool for raising a knurl on tool handles using my lathe, but cant see that working on pistons.
Let us into the secret!
Cheers, Tom.

Ronnie · 08-28-2014, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Walker

Ol' Ron, how exactly do you knurl pistons?
I have a knurling tool for raising a knurl on tool handles using my lathe, but cant see that working on pistons.
Let us into the secret!
Cheers, Tom.

You need a piston knurling machine.They were quite common years ago but now they just collect dust as an obsolete item.No one does that any more.

Deal of the day "LOL"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-Line-Indus..._Tools&vxp=mtr

R

Ol' Ron · 08-28-2014, 10:29 PM

Several company's made them the one i used was from Perfect circle. Find some of the older shops they may have one.

08-28-2014, 06:51 AM	#2
alanwoodieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 2,963	Re: Advice on worn bores please what year engine? how many miles does the engine have on it? do the bores show honing marks? has it been severly overheated? does the engine smoke more after you let thengine slow the car down and then accelerate? need some more info to answer your question.

08-28-2014, 07:03 AM	#3
G.M. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida and Penna. Posts: 4,471	Re: Advice on worn bores please How much oil is in the engine?? Drain and try 4 quarts don't go by the dip stick. G.M. __________________ www.fordcollector.com

08-28-2014, 07:28 AM	#5
oldford2 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: pittsfield, MA Posts: 2,086	Re: Advice on worn bores please Have you measured the bores??

08-28-2014, 07:31 AM	#6
Tom Walker Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Leicester. UK Posts: 404	Re: Advice on worn bores please Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks I'll try 4 quarts. I don't know how many miles are on this re-bore. Unfortunately I didn't measure the bores while the heads were off. It smokes blue smoke out tail pipe under acceleration. Thanks, Tom.

08-28-2014, 07:41 AM	#7
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,857	Re: Advice on worn bores please If the above doesn't work try honing the bore then Knurel the pistons, with a srto of new rings. After instillation place a HARD load on the engine. To insure ring seating. The problrm might have been improper ring brake in caused by too much running on a stand or with out a load. Knurling the pistons will tighen the piston to bore clearance.

08-28-2014, 08:57 AM	#8
Bill OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 425	Re: Advice on worn bores please Oil return holes under rings may be plugged - try using a good detergent 20w oil for 2k miles and see what happens. I had a 221 CI in the early 50s that did the same thing that you are experiencing and the detergent oil solved the oil burning problem.

08-28-2014, 11:36 AM	#9
ford3 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: oroville calif. Posts: 1,453	Re: Advice on worn bores please im kinda lost, what year engine are you working on? a 4 banger or v/8, most v/8's can be bored to over a 100 thousand, if you re ring the motor use hastings steel vent rings, they are cast iron and seat fast, they are very flexible and can hold oil and compression on badly worn and out of round cylinders

08-28-2014, 12:12 PM	#10
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Advice on worn bores please Mr Ford 3. Original engine in the Tudor, that would be a 32 V8. These do not go 100 over in most cases. Some fall through at 080 over. And 060" over is as he said, about as far as you can safely go. I do agree, with cast rings, good hone, nurled pistons sounds good but have no experience with them. But if Ron says so, that's good with me. Again from Ron, HARD load, to seat them. You really do need to load them up for the best seating. I've bought engines back from an oily smoky grave like this. Including seized stuff that I've had to beat the living out of them to get them apart. With quite horrible bores. Good hone, soft rings ans drive it like you stole it. Cus I couldn't afford a rebore and pistons and rings. Last one is in my Cortina, did this about 5 years back. Still drive it every day, including 70mph up the (4000rpm) motorway to work. Still going good. Got to be worth a go. Martin.

08-28-2014, 12:23 PM	#11
JWL Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia Posts: 2,204	Re: Advice on worn bores please The obvious answer is, YES, hone and re-ring is sure to help. How much and for how long will depend on the original status at the time the job is done. Ford made "Steel Section" ring sets for worn engines. These had strong expanders behind the second compression ring and would seal almost anything.

08-28-2014, 01:38 PM	#12
ford3 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: oroville calif. Posts: 1,453	Re: Advice on worn bores please scrooder, sorry about the 100 over, but no where in his post did he say it was a 32, and im no mind reader

08-28-2014, 01:56 PM	#13
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Advice on worn bores please No problem bud, I just looked at his little picture by his name (avatar) and assumed 1932. Martin.

08-28-2014, 02:14 PM	#14
Karl Wolf Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mill Valley,Ca. Posts: 1,509	Re: Advice on worn bores please If re-ringing, get a ridge reamer and learn how to use it... The ridge at the top of the cylinder left by the wear of the old top ring will make short work of the top edge of the new top ring... You can measure cylinder wear- taper- using an old ring and feeler gauge. Square up the old ring in an unworn (lower) part of the cylinder. Measure the gap- feeler gauge. Then put ring at the top, note how much more ring end gap there is and divide by 3.14 = taper in the cylinder... Old guy told me when I was young that maximum taper should be under .010" . Karl Last edited by Karl Wolf; 08-28-2014 at 04:26 PM.

08-28-2014, 03:24 PM	#15
richard crow Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,769	Re: Advice on worn bores please how maney miles do you drive it in a year if less then 5,000 & it runs good leave it alone. if some one says any thing about the smoke tell em its an antique crop duster

08-28-2014, 03:40 PM	#16
OLD...BILL Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern California,coast Posts: 552	Re: Advice on worn bores please GOOD ADVISE HERE; ..and no one said to soak it with MMO ( Marvel Mystery Oil ??) for two three days ?? pull the plugs and pour in the MMO. all cylinders... it will clean out the rings, and free em up ?? ...AND no one said anything about "SLEEVES" that engine could be sleeved back to stock, or 20 , 40 over, and go for another 100 000 miles, it would be like an all new engine inside. yes your going to spend and dollar or two. but its all new inside and will run like it to, been there done that ...... OLD.....BILL

08-28-2014, 04:03 PM	#17
Tom Walker Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Leicester. UK Posts: 404	Re: Advice on worn bores please Thats got to be the best bunch of replies I've ever had to a post!....but Scooder wins hands down...man after my own heart. So new rings it is and seat the buggers with a good thrashing, I'll enjoy that! Can you get rings for 1952 German Mahle pistons??!!

08-28-2014, 04:10 PM	#18
Tom Walker Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Leicester. UK Posts: 404	Re: Advice on worn bores please Ol' Ron, how exactly do you knurl pistons? I have a knurling tool for raising a knurl on tool handles using my lathe, but cant see that working on pistons. Let us into the secret! Cheers, Tom.

08-28-2014, 10:29 PM	#20
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,857	Re: Advice on worn bores please Several company's made them the one i used was from Perfect circle. Find some of the older shops they may have one.