Car won't start! (UPDATE- RUNNING)

[bogdonj]

As some of you may know I just got a rebuilt engine a few months ago.. been having fun with it and always started up right away and ran good. This morning I went to start it up and it would start but only ran for acouple seconds then would die. tried again and it would start going and couldn't keep it going at all. Replaced the the zenith carb with our tillston(sp) and same thing. Check all the power sources and wiring and everything is getting power to it. took the high tension power wire out of the distributor and put it on a head nut and a good snap of spark everytime. Also made sure the points were getting spark when they open. Even tried snuffing the carb when turning it over and still nothing. The carb coughs out of it. checked the fuel flow from the bowel to the carb and got a good stream of fuel.
We did notice that the amp meter doesn't move anymore but would this have anything to do with starting it? next thing I'm going to check in the morning is the timing but I don't understand how it could get out of timing after it ran so good over the last 2 months.

Any suggestions would be great.. I have a car show to go to in the morning in town and it's funny how the car always seens to act up just before.. always happened to it when we had the old engine and now seems to effect this one..lol

[Tom/Ms]

Check your ammeter for a loose connection or a burned out ammeter.Are you sure you are getting a spark from the dist?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Also make sure the terminal box connections are clean and tight.

Are you using one of the small stand up screens in the fuel shut off valve? If not, I would recommend it. You may have junk blocking the intake to the shut off valve.

Make sure the ignition key is in good condition. When the engine is running see how far you can turn the key back before the engine stops. My repro switch gave me a lot of trouble before I found and fixed the contacts. Just the weight of a key fob would make it disconnect at times.

[1929tudor]

I had the same problem last weekend. I spent about 5 hours testing things , changing things and still wouldn't start. Finally the only thing I could figure the way my car finally started was I took the dash off to look at the ammeter and ignition switch and I think the 2 prongs and the back of the ignition switch where the 2 wires connect (Repo switch)to maybe were hitting the back of the gas tank when the dash went back in place. cause now my car starts. Haven't had time to take it out yet, hopefuly this weekend but it didn't start and now it does so I think it was the prongs hitting the gas tank on back of the ignition switch shorting it out.

[Afordman31]

My buddies Model a wouldn't start, I put in new points and condenser, had 6 volts at the point arm, still wouldn't start. Used a jumper wire on the amp guage an got spark when opening the points. Replaced amp gauge and back in business.

[Dennis L Oberer]

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Green Bay WI
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[Bruce Adams]

Could the fuel line be pushed in too far into the carb, preventing enough fuel entering to run?

[bogdonj]

I am getting spark at the points arm??? is it possible I need to re time the engine? how can timing be off if I haven't made any adjustment to the Dist. since last time it run?????

[zzlegend]

Really does not sound like timing. I would double check amp gauge but even more i would look at the ignition switch and wiring behind gauge panel. Just my opinion. Good luck with it.

[midgetracer]

It really sounds like fuel problems if it starts and then quits soon after. I would think it may be some restriction in the fuel line that the fuel runs for a short time, then stops. The fuel line pushed in too far seems like a possible senario.

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by midgetracer

It really sounds like fuel problems if it starts and then quits soon after. I would think it may be some restriction in the fuel line that the fuel runs for a short time, then stops. The fuel line pushed in too far seems like a possible senario.

Made sure of this.. even took the line out of the carb and turned it on and a really good flow came out and filled up a cup pretty fast. Going to order a new amp meter and see if she fires. Or may try that tip with the aligator clips. What causes a amp meter to go? thats 2 this year if it's the case. If the amp meter doesn't work, wouldn't it atleast run but not charge the battery? can someone chime in on that to help explain it to me.

[Frank Miller]

An ampmeter is wired in series with all the power going in or out of the battery and if it goes there is an opening in the circuit. But if you are getting spark it may not be the ampmeter. In any case turn on the lights and blow the horn. If the amp needle does not move then it is not working.

[steve s]

Originally Posted by bogdonj

... it would start but only ran for acouple seconds then would die. tried again and it would start going and couldn't keep it going at all. ... Check all the power sources and wiring and everything is getting power to it. took the high tension power wire out of the distributor and put it on a head nut and a good snap of spark everytime. Also made sure the points were getting spark when they open. ...We did notice that the amp meter doesn't move anymore but would this have anything to do with starting it?

The thing to remember about your electrical tests is that they may have been done during the same few seconds as when the car would have briefly run OK. So, they are not reliable.

If the ammeter is never deflecting, there is definitely a problem there, and, as Frank explained, the ignition circuit is in series with the ammeter, so, no electrons go through the ignition primary circuit if they can't also get through the ammeter. That's got to be your first test. If you don't have a set of alligator clip leads, you can jump across the junction box terminals with any old wire, or, if you've got the dash off, wire a little jumper wire in parallel with the ammeter, or, just somehow clamp the two leads to the ammeter together well enough to see if the car will start and stay running.

It's not too far-fetched to imagine a feeble electrical connection in the ammeter that works well enough for a few seconds but rapidly heats up enough to stop working after a few seconds of current flow, and then cools down quickly enough to pass your troubleshooting tests--and make you crazy.

Steve

[bogdonj]

stilled baffled????...amp meter works, switch is ok, coil tests ok, plenty of spark from coil wire and at points, re-timed ! even tested spark from plug!....car justs turns over and over and and when I stop all I get is several coughs from carburator and gas blown out??? could it be I'm just not getting the timing down right???

[James Rogers]

Does the rotor button turn when the motor turns? Could you have a stripped timing gear or sheared distributor drive?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Check the rotor first as James said, and if it turns, then pull number one spark plug and put your finger over the hole while someone hand cranks the engine. This way you can find #1 TDC on the firing stroke. With the spark lever all the way up make sure the timing pin falls into the detent at TDC, then set the rotor to point at #1 contact in the cap and the points should just be ready to OPEN. Hold the distributor cam in this position and tighten the screw.

[Larry Seemann]

possibly the pigtail wire from the upper plate to the lower distributor plate. Sometimes it doesn't take much movement for the wire or flag terminals to ground out. ie; it starts to start and you move the spark lever a little and it grounds out.

[bogdonj]

alright tried again tonight and still no real success re-timed it again and everything checks out again. tried to start it and the same thing happens to it.... we almost got it going for a split second but then it coughs out of the carb and follows by gas spitting out. Tried again and blue smoke comes out the tail pipe.... the battery is now on the charger! try again tomorrow!

[tuneman]

Could the armored wire to the dist be in two far ?
this could short the dist!!

[Tom Wesenberg]

While cranking hold the coil wire 1/4" from a head nut and see if you have a good blue spark while cranking. Key on, car in neutral, you can hold the wire with one hand while you grab the starter switch rod with the other hand and push it down. Easy to do without help.

[Mitch//pa]

p.s. dont hold the coil wire at the end when performing this procedure

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

p.s. dont hold the coil wire at the end when performing this procedure

Man, you take the fun out of everything! LOL

Next you'll tell them not to hold the pencil by the metal clip at the end when doing a coil polarity check.

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

p.s. dont hold the coil wire at the end when performing this procedure

yeah I get a solid blue spark coming out of the high tension wire when placed against the head nut.

[1931 flamingo]

Solid blue spark, good. Sounds like you've ck'd e/thing. Long shot, are the valves opening and closing? Do you have compression?
Paul in CT

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Solid blue spark, good. Sounds like you've ck'd e/thing. Long shot, are the valves opening and closing? Do you have compression?
Paul in CT

I better hope so. Brand new engine redone by a model a expert this summer. Compression has to be good because when I did the spark plug test and it pretty much blew the plug out of my hand.

[TK in LA]

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Have you double checked the intake gasket and the GAV? If you have spark and timing it has to be the air fuel ratio. Just my 2¢

[bogdonj]

Put in different points and tried to start it and then the starter went on me. All is does is just spin. Now currently taking it out and looking at it. This car must be cursed!!!!

How do you adjust the air fuel ratio? on the carb or the mixture inside the cab? I open it 1/4 turn when starting.

[Brian SATX]

When starting cold- spark all the way up, open the choke-CCW- about one turn, pull the throttle about 1/3 down, pull the choke out all the way and hit the starter while releasing the choke. Move spark aobut 1/2 the way down, Turn the choke back to about 1/4 open-CC- as it warms up..

[amodel25]

Try to start it with the gas cap removed.
amodel25

[Bruce Adams]

You say you get a spark at the points.
Do you get a spark at the plugs?
Check there too.
Distributor caps can malfunction, too.
BUT...
Do you get a number of ounces of gas out of the carburator's drain plug continuing to flow when the plug is removed?
I still wonder about whether the fuel line COULD be in too far, thus preventing full flow to the carb after what trickled in has been used in those few seconds you say the engine runs after starting.

[MikeK]

Cracked intake manifold or blown intake gasket at the block connection. Check with a mirror and flashlight all around and under.

[midgetracer]

I had a pickup recently that would'nt start even with a good spark from the coil. I thought it was not getting fuel so i choked it real seriously. It backfired very loud and blew the muffler apart. I found the culprit the next day. Seems the distributor bushings were wore out and the point gap was all over the place. I replaced the distributor with a rebuilt one and it ran sweet (although very loud until the muffler was replaced). It could be that it is really flooded after all this trying to get it started.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by bogdonj

This morning I went to start it up and it would start but only ran for acouple seconds then would die. tried again and it would start going and couldn't keep it going at all.
..lol

OK, back to the beginning car starts but will not continue to run.

You need 5 things to have an engine run;

1) Fuel
2) Air
3) compression
4) spark
5) All at the correct time

The fact that it starts tells me that something is disapearing once the engine starts. My first thought is fuel. I would use starter fluid and spray it in the carb as you start it. Second of two give it another shot and see if the car will run for more than a couple of seconds. I did this with an A that had no fuel in the tank and ran it for several minutes using just the starting spray. If it works it points to a fuel problem.

Next I would change the distributor cap it might be shorting in the cap.

Let us know what happens and we will continue to try to assist.

[Jazzjr]

Sounds to Me, with all your Tries, and everything seems OK. Pull the Spark Plugs out, they are Probaly Wet by now or Fouled. With the plugs out, remove the coil wire and turn the engine over, let her air dry out, or install different plugs. Even if the Engine is New, and everything is in order. Probaly just Loaded up, clean her out.

Remember the Old School trick == Get a bunch of friends to push You, coast down a hill and try starting it in second gear, Key on, easying out the Clutch and turning her over, or have it towed.
Id bet it just needs to be cleaned out!!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Long shot..............is the gas turned on??

Don't crank for more than 10 seconds. It just ruins the starter and battery.

If you pull the choke and crank for 3 seconds, do you get gas running out the carb? If yes, then you need to make sure the plugs have spark, and at the right time.

[pooch]

One trick i use on my bikes and cars is to plug a timing light into the coil wire and hang the light inside the cab or off the bars.

You can instantly see any problems with spark.

The car runs fine with the light hooked up, so you can go for a drive with it pulsing and detect easy.

[bogdonj]

thanks for all the help guys! took the starter apart and found the spring broken. Going to change it out tomorrow with a new one and try it again. I will keep you posted and let you know what causes this. Appreciate all the help!!!!

[pdora]

I don't know about anyone else, but I have been following this thread with mounting interest. Such drama!

Others know far more than I about these things, but I am learning just by following along. If this were a mystery book I would be tempted to skip to the end to see how it turns out.

There will be great rejoicing when this problem is finally resolved.

[Mitch//pa]

okay i dont think this was mentioned
could you have a bad batch of gasoline? possibly water in it? here is what i do to test the fuel
put some in a small clear jar and look for water in it. the gas will float on top of the water you will see a seperation of the two. good gas in the jar should look clear not cloudy. causes of cloudy are foreign substance, sugar etc.
then pour a little on a concrete floor and light it it should burn strong and after it goes out the wetness on the concrete should start drying up.

[Jason in TX]

If it runs for a little bit, it's not an electrical problem.

It's running out of fuel. Can you unhook your fuel line from the carb, put a bucket or cup there, and then turn on the gas and see if you have a strong flow. If not, you have a chunk of crud in the gas tank that has blocked fuel delivery to the carb.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Elrod

If it runs for a little bit, it's not an electrical problem.

It's running out of fuel. Can you unhook your fuel line from the carb, put a bucket or cup there, and then turn on the gas and see if you have a strong flow. If not, you have a chunk of crud in the gas tank that has blocked fuel delivery to the carb.

he said he did that post #12

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by pdora

I don't know about anyone else, but I have been following this thread with mounting interest. Such drama!

Others know far more than I about these things, but I am learning just by following along. If this were a mystery book I would be tempted to skip to the end to see how it turns out.

There will be great rejoicing when this problem is finally resolved.

hahaha yes we will get it resolved and conquer this beast.... the starter gets fixed tomorrow then we are goign to try a few things that everyone has mentioned.

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

he said he did that post #12

actually good thinking.. I will check the gas tomorrow.... it ran fine before with this gas but you never know... thanks

[Bruce Adams]

Do try checking the fuel out the carburator drain.
I keep harping that your new carb might have a fuel line pushed in too far to permit a full flow of gas.

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by Jazzjr

Sounds to Me, with all your Tries, and everything seems OK. Pull the Spark Plugs out, they are Probaly Wet by now or Fouled. With the plugs out, remove the coil wire and turn the engine over, let her air dry out, or install different plugs. Even if the Engine is New, and everything is in order. Probaly just Loaded up, clean her out.

Remember the Old School trick == Get a bunch of friends to push You, coast down a hill and try starting it in second gear, Key on, easying out the Clutch and turning her over, or have it towed.
Id bet it just needs to be cleaned out!!

FINALLY!!!!! took the advice of Jazzjr....then adjusted the the points gap and changed plugs & retimed.....after a few turnovers of engine and with some pursasion it finally started and after about 8 minutes it FINALLY smoothed out and ran properly but occasionly idle slows down and the speeds up??? could be an air leak somewhere ? check all gaskets around manifold and seem ok and no leaks. I still believe something is wrong with the carburator because the mixture control from inside the car is hard to turn left and right. I guess we have a ghost in the car! After more inspection we found that our water pump is cracked! please chime in on this one and let me know if anyone else has had this problem. looks like we gotta get a new one.. is it ok to drive a short distance?

Keep you guys updated when we take it for a longer run and thanks for all the help.

[Gary WA]

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Are your plugs fouled! Simple things first! Change out your plugs and try!

[Gary WA]

looks like the fuel bowl is empty?Gas cap vented!

[Ron in Quincy]

Some time ago I had a simulsr problem; finally found the culpert, the flag terminal at the points was soldered good but flag terminal that crimps to hold the wire had been crimpted so hard it had almost cut the wire; when I would advance the spark rod it pulled the wire apart leaving only about 3 strands; the engine would die just like turning off the switch. The engine ran fine for a long time but each time I advanced the spark it would stress the wire which finally nearly broke into.

Ron

[bogdonj]

yeah we checked everything, still don't know what truly caused it not to fire. one of those weird scenarios! Just glad to hear it finally run again.. such a nice sound.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by bogdonj

yeah we checked everything, still don't know what truly caused it not to fire. one of those weird scenarios! Just glad to hear it finally run again.. such a nice sound.

Did you replace the water pump? That was a bad spot for a crack, as the pumpcould break off and go through the radiator.

Looking at the fan belt in the 6th picture, it looks like the fan belt is tighter than it needs to be. Half way betweent the fan pulley and generator you shoud be able to easily push and pull the belt 1 1/2".

[bogdonj]

We are working on getting a new water pump soon. do you think it would be ok to drive it 2 min down the road to our garage? Was this a common spot for the cracks on the water pump?

I will see if I can adjust the belt, I remember putting it on and it was fairly tight to begin with. can problems occur if the belt is too tight?

[1928Pickuppain]

It will be fine I mean for all you know you could have drivin 100 miles on it like that 2 miles wont hurt or kill anything.

[bogdonj]

UPDATE!!!!!! as many of you know I have been having troubles with getting this engine to fire again.. after getting a solid 2 months of running one day we couldn't get it to work. We have tried EVERYTHING and today we took it back to the re builder which happens to be a expert on model A's and comes highly recommended. We will update this thread when he figures out what is causes this and hopefully this thread can help us or anyone that is having the same problem. When the engine ran it ran beautiful so something went wrong somewhere!

here is a quick pic of the car being loaded and at the shop!

[Peter Pucak]

Had the same problem with my A. Took a jumper wire from one side of the ignition switch to the other side . Hit the starter and she fired up.Use a wire with alligator clips on each end.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Peter Pucak

Had the same problem with my A. Took a jumper wire from one side of the ignition switch to the other side . Hit the starter and she fired up.Use a wire with alligator clips on each end.

There is no "other side" on the original popout switches. You must have some type of aftermarket switch that failed.

[Peter Pucak]

I had the original Ford switch with the original Ford key. The key number and the switch numbers matched plus the extra set of keys with matching numbers for the car. No pop-out. Made in Canada.