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Old 09-07-2020, 01:01 PM   #1
Mart
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Default Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

I'm working on my newly acquired 59 Flatty. The bores are quite bad so I am going to sleeve all of them. I'm on the 4th bore and noticed a crack. It runs from the bottom of the cylinder up to about 1-1/2" from the top.

So if I carry on and fit the sleeve, do you think it will cause problems? I could foresee applying some sort of leak fix to the coolant. Anybody got experience of such a crack?

On the Crusty Flatty one cylinder did have a spot breakthrough into the water jacket and it doesn't seem to have caused a problem.

If I do proceed to fit a liner I would probably bore no more than .060 and would run the radiator either non pressurised or at most 4lbs.

What do you think? The crack looks worse because iron dust has stuck to it. In the second pic I have wiped it off at the bottom.

Mart.



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File Type: jpg crack01.jpg (25.3 KB, 423 views)
File Type: jpg crack02.jpg (29.0 KB, 417 views)
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Old 09-07-2020, 01:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

The sickener is I did this when knocking the piston out. I just checked the footage. There is no crack, then while knocking the piston there is a noise and straight away afterwards the crack can be seen.

Damn damn damn.

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Old 09-07-2020, 01:23 PM   #3
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

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Old 09-07-2020, 01:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

Mart, I would think no method or product could seal that crack in that location. You've got expansion/contraction to beat the band right there, and no finger in the dike can plug it. But then, someone's probably done it, so what do I know?
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Old 09-07-2020, 01:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

That is a wide crack. The cylinder wall might have lost most of it’s rigdity and may on longer hold a sleeve. Have a go at it. And some locktite, I guess.
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Old 09-07-2020, 01:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

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Some People melt a large hole in the piston head in order it can give some while whacking it out.
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Old 09-07-2020, 02:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart View Post
The sickener is I did this when knocking the piston out. I just checked the footage. There is no crack, then while knocking the piston there is a noise and straight away afterwards the crack can be seen.

Damn damn damn.

Mart.
It's easy to do. Shouldn't drive a piston out if it is tight. You can use a holesaw to take the center of the piston out and release pressure on the cylinder walls.
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Old 09-07-2020, 02:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

Mart, when we sleeve a block that has a broken-out piece that goes to water (like when an errant rod gets loose) or has cracks like you see there, we use this:
https://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/k...hoCcAsQAvD_BwE


It's the best we've found,and does a good job. Of course stop drilling cracks and possibly pinning the end to reduce the gap of a wide crack is recommended,but we have good results installing sleeves with Fluid Weld.


Terry
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Old 09-07-2020, 02:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

Id try brazing the crack, then do the boring and sleeving.
And start it up with Bars leak in the Coolant.
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Old 09-07-2020, 03:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

Mart, I hate to say it but my advice is to trash this block and cut your loss. I would not take the chance with it.
To be cracked that bad makes me think what other issues lurk and may show their ugly face(s) after all the machining and assembly has been done.
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Old 09-07-2020, 04:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

check out some of the thick wall sleeves. They can be sealed so there is no water seepage. I have seen holes as big as a walnut in a bore repaired.
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Old 09-07-2020, 05:38 PM   #12
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

I've heard of engines being bored out till it opened to the water jacket. Folks were trying to get enough out of there to install sleeves for a larger bore but still have reliable cylinder wall thickness on an old 1937 21-stud block. They did all 8 cylinders that way but they left a step at the bottom for a sleeve seat. They used JB-weld epoxy at the top & bottom to help seal it up and keep the deck a bit more stable. The 221 was made into a 255 by use of a modified 8CM crankshaft. They put it in a 1935 coupe & ran the Great American Race with it and made it all the way.

The only maybe is whether the cylinder wall on your block was distorted to any major degree and whether the crack goes all the way to the bottom or not. A person could stop drill it or radius out the lower end of the crack but you would need the step down at the bottom to be intact. The deck also needs to be intact.
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Old 09-07-2020, 06:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

A good shop can fix that with a sleeve. I would give the rest of the block thorough inspection before proceeding.



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Old 09-07-2020, 06:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry,OH View Post
check out some of the thick wall sleeves. They can be sealed so there is no water seepage. I have seen holes as big as a walnut in a bore repaired.
I would look into this as well.
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Old 09-07-2020, 06:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

Iíve got a nice 8BA block that was given to me, only the previous owner was beating out pistons and knocked a baseball sized hole in one of the cylinders!
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Old 09-07-2020, 06:31 PM   #16
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

You have a boring bar don't you? All you would be out is the price of the sleeve.
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Old 09-08-2020, 04:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

Thanks for all the replies, fellas.

I'll have a closer look to see what the situation is at the bottom of the bore. that one piston did not match the others and that one cylinder was an overbore. The others on that side were standard. I was able to knock the heads off the others and they came out relatively easy, but that one fought me and I couldn't get the head fully off. The head must have swollen oversize and broke out the bore as I drove it downwards.

Lesson learnt. FOLLOW THE ADVICE ON THE BARN!

Humbled.

Mart.
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Old 09-08-2020, 05:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

I just had a good look and the crack stops about 1/4" up from the bottom of the step I have left for the liner to seat on. It does not carry on to the crank case area.



You can see the boring bar at the top of the bore.

Mart.
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Last edited by Mart; 09-08-2020 at 05:25 AM.
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Old 09-08-2020, 05:27 AM   #19
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

Hello,

on a other forum these guys bore out the whole cylinder and put in new thick sleeves with a shelve at the bootom for it to sit on..is this a possible way to go?

I hope someone here says "yes i have done it" because i have a block with circular cracks just below the deck, 15-20mm down the bore and i fear its scrap..
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Old 09-08-2020, 08:44 AM   #20
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Default Re: Do you think a sleeve will fix this?

thick wall sleeves with the special '0' rings you now have a 'wet sleeve' google wet sleeves - many engines use those just an idea
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