The Ford Barn

Admiral · 05-28-2018, 08:46 PM

Stupid question but I need to double check something. Where do the knig-pin shims go on a stock '36 front end? Do they locate on top of the bearing, below it, near the bottom spindle bushing or somewhere else entirely? For the life of me I CANNOT find a decent picture of how all this goes together, even in my Ford service manual. There are plenty of shots of cars with hydraulic brakes but none with mechanicals that I can find. Also, where does the felt washer and cup go and how should it be oriented?

Thanks in advance!

1937sedandelivery · 05-28-2018, 10:32 PM

check out this link, it should help.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...estion.802572/

Tinker · 05-28-2018, 11:06 PM

shims go on the bottom, they take up slack in the pin. not meant to be subject to support weight.

Brian · 05-28-2018, 11:56 PM

The felt and cup washer locate between the bottom of the axle and the spindle, washer side facing up.
I always fit shims under the thrust washer sufficient to preload the thrust.

rich b · 05-29-2018, 08:13 AM

Here is some info on setting up shims from the Model A side:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165268

Admiral · 05-29-2018, 01:39 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rich b

Here is some info on setting up shims from the Model A side:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165268

Thanks, Rich (and everyone else!). This Model A thread is just what I was looking for. I think I need to add a shim or two to my car's spindle assemblies as occasionally I get a clunking sound when stopping after backing up, and at low speeds the brakes sometimes feel juddery, like warped rotors do in a more modern vehicle.

Mart · 05-30-2018, 06:15 AM

I would be interested to know if excessive kingpin end play would cause the issues mentioned. There's a lot of weight on that pin, you would think it would always sit at one end of the available play and not float back and forth.

Mart.

Admiral · 05-31-2018, 08:19 PM

OK, after reading the suggested threads several times I'm still confused. I even took the driver's side spindle assembly apart this afternoon to get a better look at things but it's still incredibly unclear. I have a few more questions.

1. Where do the shims go? Underneath the king pin's flange, below the bearing or under the cup that carries the felt washer? (Underneath the bearing and resting atop the axle seems to make the most sense.)

2. How tight does the assembly have to be? The way I understand it is the bearing SHOULD ROTATE BY HAND when the front axle is jacked up and BE IMMOVABLE when the vehicle's weight is loading the suspension. Is this correct or should it always be immovable by hand?

3. If point No. 2 is true, you SHOULD be able to get a feeler gauge in between the bearing and axle, right? If so, what should the gap be?

Thanks again, guys. Every diagram of an early Ford front end I can find shows nothing clearly about where the shims go; every picture I've searched for is of some street-rodded car with hydraulic brakes, which has the bearing at the bottom rather than the top...

rich b · 05-31-2018, 08:58 PM

1. Been a while and maybe I haven't done these pins by the book; but I put the kingpin in place with the lock pin tight, then push up on the bottom of the spindle with a jack, then figure out how many shims it takes to get the fit as tight as possible between the top of the axle and the bottom of the bearing, then take it apart, and reassemble with the determined shims. Shims go between the axle and bearing.

2. With the axle jacked up, it may very well be possible to turn the bearing as it can't be shimmed to zero clearance with the furnished shims and shouldn't be pre-loaded by forcing the assembly together.

3. Unless you have a variety of different sized shims; you can only get it as tight as the furnished shim thickness allows so I wouldn't worry about a feeler gauge. In other words the gap should be less than one shim thickness.

4. This all holds true unless you have an axle or spindle with excess wear, in that case you may have to source some extra shims.

Mart · 06-01-2018, 06:53 AM

Here's my take on it: The shims should go in a non load bearing location. For a stock 36 with 36 spindles and kingpins, this should be actually above the axle, and (Oh god, I'm guessing a bit here) the felt excluder washer should go below the axle.

In the 36 application you have to imagine the weight of the vehicle hanging on the kingpin, that's why the bearing is above the spindle.

If you have a 37 up or an earlier car running 37 up spindles, the weight of the car rests directly on the spindle, hence the thrust bearing is below the axle. In this case the shims go above the axle, and the felt washer and cup go at the top. In these 37 type the top of the pin is not load bearing so is a lot weaker that the up to 36 type.

That's how I see it. I always try to think things through from first principles and square it away in my own mind.

Mart.

Andy · 06-01-2018, 12:51 PM

I check for clearance above and below the axle. The king pin has the bearing above the spindle. The load goes down to the lock pin in the axle. The top of the spindle could get worn from a frozen bearing. The shims are to take up the spindle wear. The wear would let the axle drag on the bottom spindle lug. A too thick shim could force the axle up so it is bound on the bottom of the top spindle lug.

05-28-2018, 08:46 PM	#1
Admiral Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Oakland County, Michigan Posts: 562	1936 King Pin Shims Stupid question but I need to double check something. Where do the knig-pin shims go on a stock '36 front end? Do they locate on top of the bearing, below it, near the bottom spindle bushing or somewhere else entirely? For the life of me I CANNOT find a decent picture of how all this goes together, even in my Ford service manual. There are plenty of shots of cars with hydraulic brakes but none with mechanicals that I can find. Also, where does the felt washer and cup go and how should it be oriented? Thanks in advance!

05-28-2018, 10:32 PM	#2
1937sedandelivery Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 332	Re: 1936 King Pin Shims check out this link, it should help. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...estion.802572/

05-28-2018, 11:06 PM	#3
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: 1936 King Pin Shims shims go on the bottom, they take up slack in the pin. not meant to be subject to support weight.

05-28-2018, 11:56 PM	#4
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,832	Re: 1936 King Pin Shims The felt and cup washer locate between the bottom of the axle and the spindle, washer side facing up. I always fit shims under the thrust washer sufficient to preload the thrust. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

05-29-2018, 08:13 AM	#5
rich b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,825	Re: 1936 King Pin Shims Here is some info on setting up shims from the Model A side: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165268

05-30-2018, 06:15 AM	#7
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,749	Re: 1936 King Pin Shims I would be interested to know if excessive kingpin end play would cause the issues mentioned. There's a lot of weight on that pin, you would think it would always sit at one end of the available play and not float back and forth. Mart.

05-31-2018, 08:19 PM	#8
Admiral Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Oakland County, Michigan Posts: 562	Re: 1936 King Pin Shims OK, after reading the suggested threads several times I'm still confused. I even took the driver's side spindle assembly apart this afternoon to get a better look at things but it's still incredibly unclear. I have a few more questions. 1. Where do the shims go? Underneath the king pin's flange, below the bearing or under the cup that carries the felt washer? (Underneath the bearing and resting atop the axle seems to make the most sense.) 2. How tight does the assembly have to be? The way I understand it is the bearing SHOULD ROTATE BY HAND when the front axle is jacked up and BE IMMOVABLE when the vehicle's weight is loading the suspension. Is this correct or should it always be immovable by hand? 3. If point No. 2 is true, you SHOULD be able to get a feeler gauge in between the bearing and axle, right? If so, what should the gap be? Thanks again, guys. Every diagram of an early Ford front end I can find shows nothing clearly about where the shims go; every picture I've searched for is of some street-rodded car with hydraulic brakes, which has the bearing at the bottom rather than the top...

05-31-2018, 08:58 PM	#9
rich b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,825	Re: 1936 King Pin Shims 1. Been a while and maybe I haven't done these pins by the book; but I put the kingpin in place with the lock pin tight, then push up on the bottom of the spindle with a jack, then figure out how many shims it takes to get the fit as tight as possible between the top of the axle and the bottom of the bearing, then take it apart, and reassemble with the determined shims. Shims go between the axle and bearing. 2. With the axle jacked up, it may very well be possible to turn the bearing as it can't be shimmed to zero clearance with the furnished shims and shouldn't be pre-loaded by forcing the assembly together. 3. Unless you have a variety of different sized shims; you can only get it as tight as the furnished shim thickness allows so I wouldn't worry about a feeler gauge. In other words the gap should be less than one shim thickness. 4. This all holds true unless you have an axle or spindle with excess wear, in that case you may have to source some extra shims.

06-01-2018, 06:53 AM	#10
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,749	Re: 1936 King Pin Shims Here's my take on it: The shims should go in a non load bearing location. For a stock 36 with 36 spindles and kingpins, this should be actually above the axle, and (Oh god, I'm guessing a bit here) the felt excluder washer should go below the axle. In the 36 application you have to imagine the weight of the vehicle hanging on the kingpin, that's why the bearing is above the spindle. If you have a 37 up or an earlier car running 37 up spindles, the weight of the car rests directly on the spindle, hence the thrust bearing is below the axle. In this case the shims go above the axle, and the felt washer and cup go at the top. In these 37 type the top of the pin is not load bearing so is a lot weaker that the up to 36 type. That's how I see it. I always try to think things through from first principles and square it away in my own mind. Mart. Last edited by Mart; 06-01-2018 at 08:09 AM.

06-01-2018, 12:51 PM	#11
Andy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kerrville, Tx Posts: 2,769	Re: 1936 King Pin Shims I check for clearance above and below the axle. The king pin has the bearing above the spindle. The load goes down to the lock pin in the axle. The top of the spindle could get worn from a frozen bearing. The shims are to take up the spindle wear. The wear would let the axle drag on the bottom spindle lug. A too thick shim could force the axle up so it is bound on the bottom of the top spindle lug.