Mallory sbc to 8BA 4 lobe cam issues

[Charlie ny]

I have some sbc Mallory's in the shop to convert to 8 BA. These are the
2 piece vintage cap styles. Here's the problem all have 4 lobe cams, all
are dual point using the Ford style Mallory points. These points are adjusted

with a screw driver in triangular depressions in the breaker plate. My issue
is some distributors have the points 180 degrees apart and others about

135 degrees apart. I slipped a 135 distributor into my test motor and got
very erratic spark or no spark at all. If the motor fired it was just burp.
I removed the 135 breaker plate and installed a 180 breaker plate using
the same points that were on the 135 plate. The motor fired right up no

sweat. I was extremely careful that in both scenarios .everything was
properly insulated.
Help me out here....what's the deal with the 135 plate.
Thank you,
Charlie

[35fordtn]

Charlie,
I am clueless as I've messed with nothing but original dizzy's. Do you have a sun or allen machine? If so what's the arrow seperation from even to odd cylinders when using the 135 degree breaker plate?

[tubman]

Charlie,

I have a flattop Mallory for an Olds Rocket that has a four lobe cam. The points are not wired together, each set having it's own terminal on the side of the distributor housing. This distributor uses a special Mallory coil that has two primary windings and one secondary winding. Each set of points energizes it's primary winding alternately. It's sort of a "poor man's" dual coil setup that doesn't require a special cap or rotor. I also have a couple of SBC flattop Mallorys with 4 lobe cams where the points are wired together and feed one primary on the coil like regular dual point. I believe these are called "Double Life" distributors because they alternatively fire each set of points to energize the primary, resulting in half the wear on the points. I believe this type of distributor needs the 180 degree plate. while the first requires the 135 degree plate. These "poor man's" dual coil setups obviously require two condensers.


Denny

[Ol' Ron]

Is this the wasted spark system?? How do you run a V( with a 4 lobe cam?? Must use 2 coils and a 180 plate. Not sure about the cap.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tubman

Charlie,

I have an Olds Rocket engine.
Denny

Denny …...I guess that common sense would dictate that these early Olds, Caddy and Hemi engines with the extended, cast bells probably shouldn't be 'hung' off of an engine stand by their butt-ends just like the early flattys? And if that is true, and with the exhaust ports being NOT located in the BLOCKS, just how does one cautiously hang one of these on an engine stand? DD


PS....CUTE little gold thingies!

[tubman]

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Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Is this the wasted spark system?? How do you run a V8 with a 4 lobe cam?? Must use 2 coils and a 180 plate. Not sure about the cap.

Ron - Did you read my post where I stated that these distributors require a special coil with two primary windings? The coils were made by Mallory and have three primary terminals instead of the normal two. I can post a picture of one tomorrow if need be. They look like a regular Mallory "FlashFire" coil with an extra primary terminal. In effect, these ARE dual coil systems. Because there is only ONE secondary winding, there is only one secondary lead from the coil so they can use a regular cap and rotor. It's quite clever when you think about it.

And, you can run a V8 with a 4 lobe cam and one coil if you have dual points phased properly. That's the Mallory "Double Life" distributor. Each set of points cycles only four times in two revolutions (all 4 cycles) instead of eight times, hence the name. I think this is also quite clever.

As a point of reference, with "regular" dual point system, both sets of points work in concert to increase the dwell and therefore coil saturation.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Denny …...I guess that common sense would dictate that these early Olds, Caddy and Hemi engines with the extended, cast bells probably shouldn't be 'hung' off of an engine stand by their butt-ends just like the early flattys? And if that is true, and with the exhaust ports being NOT located in the BLOCKS, just how does one cautiously hang one of these on an engine stand? DD


PS....CUTE little gold thingies!

I was referring to the distributor having a four lobe cam in case anyone is confused. To answer your question, I would never attempt to mount one of these by the bellhousing; I think that would be an invitation for disaster! Lucky for me, this engine was completely rebuilt when I got it. One of my next projects is to mount this on my test stand (that has standard front and rear mounts) to get it running, and hopefully, any maintenance that it may need can be done on the test stand.

About the "gold thingies"; I get 'em wholesale; that's almost a necessity with these distributors.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tubman

I was referring to the distributor having a four lobe cam in case anyone is confused. To answer your question, I would never attempt to mount one of these by the bellhousing; I think that would be an invitation for disaster! Lucky for me, this engine was completely rebuilt when I got it. One of my next projects is to mount this on my test stand (that has standard front and rear mounts) to get it running, and hopefully, any maintenance that it may need can be done on the test stand.

About the "gold thingies"; I get 'em wholesale; that's almost a necessity with these distributors.

Sorry if I caused any confusion about 'cams'. I understand the theory, but was merely trying to shorten the "quoted" reference.


Getting back to the cast bells....just HOW do guys safely mount these on a true engine stand? As many of these that I had seen in the past, I had never really thought about mounting one before your picture above just 'smacked' me up the side of the head. DD

[Charlie ny]

I went thru my inventory of Mallory parts and found that I had initially used the only

non DOUBLE LIFE plate to build the distributor that started this post. I had eight
DOUBLE LIFE breaker plates. That tells me the DOUBLE LIFE was pretty popular and
the Mallory on your delicious Olds maybe not so popular...just a guess. I have a bunch
of Chevy Mallory's and most have the 4 lobe cam. It is quite obvious when eye balling
an 8 lobe Mallory the distinct difference in the location of the points in relation to
each other.
Denny, I sure thank you for clearing up my flumox.
Charlie ny

[tubman]

Charlie,

Yeah, the Olds type was "not so popular". The proper coil that I have for it is a 6 volt unit and I have been looking a couple of years for a 12 volt unit with no luck. I really don't want to run that Olds on 6 volts.

Denny

[Ol' Ron]

Just when you've thought you've seen everything. You have to start all over again.
Gramps

[Charlie ny]

Denny,
Some years back Skip Haney rebuilt a Mallory 'square' coil for a buddy,

perhaps he still does.

Ron,
Alice and I will always cherish the hours we spent with you almost ten

years ago.
Charlie ny

[Frank Miller]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Denny …...I guess that common sense would dictate that these early Olds, Caddy and Hemi engines with the extended, cast bells probably shouldn't be 'hung' off of an engine stand by their butt-ends just like the early flattys? And if that is true, and with the exhaust ports being NOT located in the BLOCKS, just how does one cautiously hang one of these on an engine stand? DD


PS....CUTE little gold thingies!

You build an adapter or a whole different engine stand to support the front. That's one way.

[Charlie ny]

My recall is not what it used to be but I do remember my '53 Olds coupe with a LaSalle trans and '57 J2..........Coming off the line at about 6000 the clutch and pp blew up and

grenaded the rear casting. A bit un-nerving, opened up the trans tunnel and killed my
radio, back on the road in a week.
Charlie ny

[tubman]

That distributor may also be from a "MagSpark" setup. "MagSpark"'s are hard to find and obtuse, so I don't know much about them. I have a "MagSpark" transformer, and it also has three primary terminals, one marked "Ignition" and the other two are obviously for the two leads to the distributor. I'm starting too believe that a "MagSpark" is nothing but and oddly packaged coil with two primary's and one secondary, just like the "FlashFire". Mallory called it a "Transformer", but I see no sign of AC current anywhere.

[solidaxle]

Here you go Tubman.

[tubman]

That's like the "MagSpark" I have. I find it interesting in that it has two ballast resistors that are on the distributor side of the coil. My "FlashFire" (for want of a better name) has only one ballast resistor, on the "Ignition" side of the coil. The red coil is a regular "FlashFire". BTW, 6 volt "FlashFire"'s are black, while 12 volt units are red.

BTW, is that part of a system you have, or just an odd piece, I try to accumulate all of the Mallory stuff I can.

[solidaxle]

This one says 49-53 Ford / Merc 6volt negative grd on the box. But you can wire them positive ground.

I suspect, all the Magsparks like this are the same unit. The part numbers change because of the mounting for each make of auto. It utilizes two condensers one on the dizzy and one on the coil. Different from the Olds Rocket picture above.


I'm using a YC, 4 lope with the contacts is series and one Mallory Best coil.


Going back to Charlies original question. Looking through the literature I have, the only two contact plates I see are one for 8cyl and one for 6cyl.

[scicala]

Originally Posted by Charlie ny

My recall is not what it used to be but I do remember my '53 Olds coupe with a LaSalle trans and '57 J2..........Coming off the line at about 6000 the clutch and pp blew up and

grenaded the rear casting. A bit un-nerving, opened up the trans tunnel and killed my
radio, back on the road in a week.
Charlie ny

Charlie, that reminds me of a story. In high school, my Auto Mechanics teacher was an NHRA drag racer. He raced his '66 big block L78 Chevelle at first with the factory cast aluminum bell housing (4 speed car). He exploded the flywheel and clutch/pressure plate and tore up the floor pan, and had outward dents in the front fenders and dashboard. Also broke off all four mounting ears off of the trans. He was lucky he didn't get hurt himself.

Sal

[Charlie ny]

Solidaxle...........in my inventory of Mallory breaker plate I have a bunch of the 26017
plates as shown in your post.....the plate that got me in trouble is 24878. I'd sure like
to know what application it services.
Thanks,
Charlie ny

[Chris Marshall]

This post has been a great learning experience. Not having any early Mallory documentation I've been going by trial and error.

I have an early Mallory Magspark coil and could never figure out just how it was supposed to work. It is clearly marked 6V. I also have a Mallory Voltmaster coil in the same rectangular style case. It is marked 12V and has a single primary connection. I'll try to post photos of both later today.

I recently sent CharlieNY an early sbc Mallory for conversion to flathead. Apparently I got lucky and sent him one with the points positioned 180 degrees apart. In looking through others I have, they are the 4 lobe style with the points 135 degrees apart. The points are not connected to each other and each set has it's own insulated connection outside the distributor body. Would not have worked well for what I'm planning!

[Charlie ny]

Chris,
You should receive the Mallory today or Friday. Eyeballing your distributor is

what got me going here. I did install yours in my big cam stroker motor....286...and
it fired right up, fat blue spark. The carbs checked out primo as well.
Charlie ny

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Chris Marshall

This post has been a great learning experience. Not having any early Mallory documentation I've been going by trial and error.

I have an early Mallory Magspark coil and could never figure out just how it was supposed to work. It is clearly marked 6V. I also have a Mallory Voltmaster coil in the same rectangular style case. It is marked 12V and has a single primary connection. I'll try to post photos of both later today.

I recently sent CharlieNY an early sbc Mallory for conversion to flathead. Apparently I got lucky and sent him one with the points positioned 180 degrees apart. In looking through others I have, they are the 4 lobe style with the points 135 degrees apart. The points are not connected to each other and each set has it's own insulated connection outside the distributor body. Would not have worked well for what I'm planning!

Chris,

It looks like you have the components for a complete "MagSpark" unit. I have been grabbing every bit of Mallory documentation from the web I can find for the last 5 years and have a folder about 1" thick with it. If you would like, I could dig through my stash and see what I have on the "MagSpark" if it would help. Just let me know. I just sold a couple of condensers to a guy running a "MagSpark" on a flathead, and except for some accelerated point wear (thus the need for new condensers) it seems to run well.

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by tubman

Chris,

It looks like you have the components for a complete "MagSpark" unit. I have been grabbing every bit of Mallory documentation from the web I can find for the last 5 years and have a folder about 1" thick with it. If you would like, I could dig through my stash and see what I have on the "MagSpark" if it would help. Just let me know. I just sold a couple of condensers to a guy running a "MagSpark" on a flathead, and except for some accelerated point wear (thus the need for new condensers) it seems to run well.

Denny I have what I believe is a NOS Magspark for an 8BA with Mallory dash switch. Unfortunately no coil or paperwork. I will take some pics tonight & post.

[tubman]

BY "NOS MagSpark", I assume you are referring to the distributor. Looking forward to seeing the pictures. I think the dash switch just cuts the ballast resistor in and out. I also have an extra 12 volt "MagSpark" coil.

[KiWinUS]

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Sorry for confusion. Yes I mean distributor & yes that’s all the switch does. I do have some old Mallory coils but not sure what this distributor needs. I will post coil pics also.

[tubman]

Basically, if the distributor has two coil terminals, it uses one of the special coils or a "MagSpark" unit.

[solidaxle]

KiaWinUs,


What does the ID tag on the side of the distributor say?

[Chris Marshall]

Here's photos of the Magspark and Voltmaster coils I have. Mine is not nearly as clean as the one solidaxle shows. The primary connection tabs have a very distinct "P" and "R" stamped in them. Do these have any meaning?

The Voltmaster uses the exact same casing as the Magspark. The two primary terminals are repurposed as "+" and "-". The Magspark Ignition terminal is covered with a small plastic cap on the Voltmaster.

Denny, I'd certainly be interested in a copy of any Magspark information you might have. I have a "not fordbarn friendly" project that would be perfect for this setup. I'm not sure my coil is good though. It's leaking alot of tar. Possibly Skip can rewind these.

[Fordors]

Mallory distributors will have an M in the model designation, as in YCM if it is an original MagSpark version, and there will also be a small round tag that says MagSpark. But I think any Mallory dual point could be used with a MagSpark transformer by removing the jumper wire between the point sets and properly wiring it. Not only is the transformer voltage and polarity dependent there is also a correct way to wire them for CW or CCW distributor rotation.

[KiWinUS]

Sorry guy’s I was mistaken the NOS is a “RevPol mk2”. Here’s pics of most of my Mallory stuff also I have several Echlin coils with the bulb on them.
The RevPol is NOS I may have original box but can’t locate I sure wish I had instructions for it. I also have a couple of DuCoil dizzys one a NOS Olds wrong direction but it was cheap for cap & rotor spares they are not flathead YET.

[Fordors]

Chris, I believe your Voltmaster was introduced in the late ‘60’s, early ‘70’s and it was the replacement for a number of other Mallory coils. Previously there was another coil designated as the Voltmaster, it looked like a conventional coil.

[tubman]

I particularly like the round-bottomed coils that have "The Best Coil I Ever Made" engraved in the bottom. I like that show of confidence.