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Old 03-07-2015, 05:11 PM   #1
RodRocket
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Default Identify Y block engine

I am trying to find out details of my Y block. I have shown it a couple of Ford guys who agreed that it is a 57 T Bird 312. Are there any external clues that I should look for? I was told that the front hiway draft tube was one. I figure that asking the hard core Ford Guys could help with this. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:01 PM   #2
dmsfrr
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

Is the engine out of whatever car it was in?
Did those Ford guys give you any reasons for their conclusions?
Can you pass along any block and head casting numbers?
How about some almost close-up photos?
There are several specific external parts for engines that are actually out of 55/57 T-Birds... driver's side exhaust manifold, crankshaft damper pulley & timing pointer, water pump spacer, timing chain cover, motor mounts, thermostat housing, valley pan, oil pan, oil dipstick placement .....

Just FYI, there isn't a way to positively identify a 312 from the outside unless the oil pan or transmission is off. It will have 'ECZ' cast into the main bearing caps and an aspirin sized dot on the rear flange of the crank if it's a 312.
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File Type: jpg 312 crank end.jpg (37.1 KB, 26 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 10-09-2015 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:27 PM   #3
Hot Rod Reverend
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

every Y block is a 312!
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

All y blocks with the pan and trans on are 312's. They only become 272-292's when you check the crank or main caps. My 55 bird had the rear intake manifold draft tube, and I'm pretty sure 57's did too. The front canister/short tube was typically pass car. dmsfrr' comments are also correct. Keep posting the info.
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

Beat me to it, HRR
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rod Reverend View Post
every Y block is a 312!
Quote:
Originally Posted by miker98038 View Post
All y blocks with the pan and trans on are 312's. They only become 272-292's when you check the crank or main caps.
It's true! and 292's can be 256's.
.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 03-08-2015 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

Yes, thunderbird Cars had the rear draft tube, not side, front. Pass cars with tbird special engine option had front' side crankacase vent.

All said-This has nothing to do with it being a particular displacement

The aspirin dot thing on the crank flange is correct MOST of the time. Otherwise you have to drop the pan and look for numbers on the main caps. Or measure the bore.

As the Rev said they're all 312's!
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Old 03-07-2015, 07:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

Not to argue, but did the 256 use the small water pump (and different cam/dizzy gear) of the 239? I've never had a 256.
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Old 03-07-2015, 08:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

miker98038
The '54 Mercury 256 I found in my '55 "292" T-Bird is (according to the machine shop) a 'late' version and all the '55-'57 T-Bird specific parts were bolted right on, including the newer front motor mount timing cover/water pump. It even had a '57 tach drive dist and a '57 ECZ-B intake manifold on it. But it did have the earlier/smaller spark plug threads in the heads.
The early '54 256's may have used the smaller cam bearings (same as the 239?) and the oil pump/dist drive was probably also the older flat/slot version, not hex drive. From photos I've seen the early/late fuel pumps are noticeably different also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodRocket View Post
I am trying to find out details of my Y block. I have shown it a couple of Ford guys who agreed that it is a 57 T Bird 312. Are there any external clues that I should look for?
RodRocket
The reality is that virtually any '54/'64 y-block engine can be put into a '55/'57 T-Bird by swapping enough bolt-on parts. If an engine has the various T-Bird specific parts on it you can be pretty sure it came out of a T-Bird, but after 59+ years of folks building, rebuilding & swapping car parts around there's no easy way to know where it came from, except for some year specific differences & casting numbers.

However... what engine you actually have only matters depending on what you're planning on doing with it, so you can get to where you want to be when you're done.

Be sure to check out this link.
http://ford-y-block.com/technical.htm
.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 09-28-2015 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 03-07-2015, 10:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

The best "312" is a .50 over 292 using a 312 crank with the mains cut to 292.
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Old 03-08-2015, 07:35 AM   #11
darrell
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

the rear draft tube was used on all late y blocks.trucks and cars.i think they started using it as early as 58.
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Old 03-08-2015, 10:34 AM   #12
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

An engine installed in a T Bird would have a rear sump oil pan for starters.

Rear sump oil pan is easy to spot BUT it still does not mean its a 312.

Oldmics
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Old 03-08-2015, 11:17 AM   #13
dmsfrr
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by y'sguy View Post
Yes, thunderbird Cars had the rear draft tube, not side, front. Pass cars with tbird special engine option had front' side crankacase vent.
Yes, I believe this is correct. Likely due to a conflict with the front/side mounted breather canister, the T-Bird engine position in the frame (lower & farther back) and the steering linkage.
In addition to a 1 hole for the top rear mounted road draft tube the T-Bird valley pans also had a shorter 6 inch oil filler tube, for hood clearance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrell View Post
the rear draft tube was used on all late y blocks.trucks and cars.i think they started using it as early as 58.
The road draft tube from the rear of the valley pan over the bell housing was used as early as '55 in T-Birds. My recollection is that most y-block valley pans don't have the rear vent hole for a road draft tube, so the lower front canister and vented filler cap would have been used for crankcase venting on those engines. I have seen a couple original(?) y-block valley pans with the rear vent hole set up to a pcv valve hose fitting at the base of the carb.
Beginning on the FE series engines in '58 the crankcase venting would probaby be something different, thru the tops of the valve covers(?), I haven't had my hands on one yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldmics View Post
An engine installed in a T Bird would have a rear sump oil pan for starters.
Rear sump oil pan is easy to spot BUT it still does not mean its a 312.
Oldmics
Trucks also had a rear sump pan but they're about 2+ inches deeper than the T-Bird oil pan. They have an extra 'step' in them too and none were originally 312's.

We need casting numbers and pictures of the engine RodRocket is asking about, but he may have gone AWOL.
.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 09-28-2015 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:15 PM   #14
RodRocket
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Smile Re: Identify Y block engine

Hi again, Guys, well, DMSFRR was correct, I have been in for Repair at the VA Hosp. A triple bypass in Feb. then 2 of the graphs collapsed by May bringing 2 more surgeries, just got home Thursday. Thank you all for you posts about my
Y block questions. The engine is in my 37 Ford which I am going to sell. Trying to decide if I should swap the engine out or sell the car as is. Reason: most people seem to want a late model SBF or SBC drive train; this is a very strong running engine with 3 deuces and obviously has been worked up, cam ,etc. I would like to see that someone doing a vintage bird etc. have access to this engine. I found these numbers on the engine, casting- 57 V(?). L, ECK 6015, then 58D2K stamped. I hope that this will help. Kindest Regards to all, Rod
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:32 PM   #15
streetdreams
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

ECK is Mercury and I think some early TBird engines. John Mummert's site has a good breakdown of cylinder block numbers and applications.
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:56 PM   #16
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

Hope you are doing better after the surgery.

To address the question about pulling the yblock. I would suggest to leave it. To me the three deuce yblock would be a plus.

Have a good and fast recovery!





.

Last edited by Tinker; 07-05-2015 at 09:56 PM. Reason: Auto spell correct
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Old 07-05-2015, 09:31 PM   #17
dmsfrr
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Default Re: Identify Y block engine

Rod, Welcome back! I'm glad you're doing better.

ECK 6015 ?
I'll bet the block number above the oil filter looks like the photo below, except yours is painted.
I've got one just like it.
It's a '55-'56 block and a 292, not a 312.

The 312's were made starting with the ECZ series engine blocks.
http://ford-y-block.com/Block%20identification.htm

The next part of your project might be ID'ing the heads.

A 292 w/3 deuces in a '37 is pretty nice.

---------------------
Edit / Update....
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodRocket View Post
I would like to see that someone doing a vintage bird etc. have access to this engine.
Here's my nomination for the "If I had a magic wand" category....
I think zuburg might like an engine like yours (ok, without the 3 deuces) and he's just an hour away from you. See the second half of his post/thread at this link....
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...=172555&page=2

---------------------
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Last edited by dmsfrr; 09-28-2015 at 05:21 PM.
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