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Old 12-11-2019, 12:44 PM   #1
AnthonyG
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Question Pulling engine

Hey all, question of convenience, Pa. guy, itís cold & no heat in garage so wanna be out there at a min, lol! Iím ready to pull engine in Ď35 w Ď49 8BA While putting engine in no interior w floor plates removed was easy to do w Tranny mounted. Im thinking of separating at the Bell housing to engine interface leaving bell in car and pulling engine as I would have to remove bell before placing on index stand. Good, bad, easier harder, issues reinstalling engine? For sure donít wanna pull Tranny!
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pulling engine

I prefer to leave the tranny in the car. Especially with visual access through the floor. It is so much easier to line everything up that way, when going back together. Ive done it this way too many times to count.
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Pulling it as separate parts isn't an issue. Getting everything aligned when reinstalling will be the challenge. Remove however it seems to work best for you. Wait for warmer weather to put things back.
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Anthony....In your case with an 8BA, I would separate at the transmission to bell connection. This will keep the half bell, starter and starter plate together as an assembly during removal. More importantly, it will facilitate simplicity when replacing the engine in that you will not have to fumble with aligning the starter plate and starter while trying to align everything else during the mating (while laying on your back under the car)! Plus, separating at the trans/bell juncture requires the removal of only 8 bolts while laying under the car, vs about 13 bolts at the engine/bell juncture PLUS the starter.
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pulling engine

I use a piece of flat stock , put it across the wish bones and let the trans rest on that, makes it easier and less chance of hurting the rear of trans
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Edited after reading V8COOPMAN
Thx, got it. The starter & starter plate was the area I was concerned about.
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Engine got stuck coming out on spline, gave up tonite but will loosen Tranny mount a bit tomorrow & Jack Tranny front a bit.
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Deleted! DD
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Old 12-11-2019, 11:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwoodieman View Post
I use a piece of flat stock , put it across the wish bones and let the trans rest on that, makes it easier and less chance of hurting the rear of trans
Ditto, I use a length of pipe.
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Old 12-12-2019, 12:29 AM   #10
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Default Re: Pulling engine

I used to piece of wood across the wishbones and it did really good. when it came to pulling the transmission out laying under the car a couple of the bolts for the torque tube cap were a real pain to get to.
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Old 12-12-2019, 01:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Engine got stuck coming out on spline, gave up tonite but will loosen Tranny mount a bit tomorrow & Jack Tranny front a bit.
There is a fair chance that the clutch disk got wedged out of alignment with the pilot bearing during that hung up removal. Be sure to get the disk perfectly aligned before attempting to reinstall. I use an old transmission front shaft to do that, but you can also buy an alignment tool that duplicates that front shaft.

And the front of the transmission will needed to be jacked up a bit above its normal rest position to make alignment go easier as you attempt that last two inches.
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Old 12-12-2019, 01:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphM View Post
I used to piece of wood across the wishbones and it did really good. when it came to pulling the transmission out laying under the car a couple of the bolts for the torque tube cap were a real pain to get to.
That is why I leave the tranny in the car if it does not need work. I hate dealing with the dam u-joint. Even if I did pull the tranny with the engine, i would put the tranny back in separately.
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Old 12-12-2019, 03:28 PM   #13
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Not me - I pull the engine with the trans and put it back in the same way. Using a side-mount engine adapter, this makes it easy to put the clutch in, align the tranny and bolt it up, test the clutch release (with a pipe or something) and make sure everything is right. Then I put it together as a complete assembly into the car. It really doesn't take much to align the rear transmission mount, slip the u-joint onto the drive shaft and finish the install. I've definitely done it the other way - hate having to try to align the engine and transmission input shaft - pain in the butt. The u-joint at the back end is easier in my mind . . .
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Got it out no prob. Hydraulic jack under bell side of Tranny. Slight upper move aligned & slid right out. Hanging on cherry picker 4 now. Pulled off starter & Bell housing. Need longer 7/16” bolts to put on indexing engine stand. Done for a few. Wil put on stand Sunday & start the repair.
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Old 12-13-2019, 07:48 AM   #15
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Don't forget that pan bolt that holds that little starter brace if you are leaving the starter plate in the car. Chap
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Old 12-13-2019, 01:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Back in the day we used to screw 2 guide pins which were just bolts with the heads cut off at 3 oclock and 9 oclock into the bell housing to help align the engine to the trans. It made the job easier.
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Old 12-13-2019, 05:01 PM   #17
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Angry Re: Pulling engine

Fyi, even though still aggravated having to deal w bad ring in a cyl on an engine a professional builder built 2000 miles ago, Iím glad I pulled the engine now. As I noticed centrifugal grease streaks on clutch plate. It was about a 1/4Ē away from clutch pads so wasnít effecting anything yet but a couple hundred more miles & Iíd have lost the clutch & Probly messed up FW & PP too. Closer inspection showed the sealed Thrust Bearing went bad & was letting grease streak out on the spline & clutch plate. I have purple Tranny gear oil in trans & this was color of green mint jelly & could see it coming out of thrust / Throwout bearing. Originally bought at Macs Auto Parts on line 5+ yrs ago. Iíll b calling VanPeltís Sales to replace w one thatíll last.
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Old 12-13-2019, 05:12 PM   #18
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Make sure you get a recognised brand of bearing, in the kits from a reputable rebuilder the bearing was Chinese and cr**,
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Old 12-13-2019, 05:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Im will be buying a new Thrust bearing from Vsnpeltsales.com I’ll call first& get their recommendation for best one! Have played w my ‘35 for 5 yrs now & been on the Barn about the same I know I can trust them after reading many threads from M VanPelt who we all know on FB. Being honest I bought the Thrust Bearing 5 yrs ago near beginning of project when new to Early Ford V8’s & FB. Very Green @!the time like the grease in the Chinese Thrust Bearing
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:33 AM   #20
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
... I bought the Thrust Bearing 5 yrs ago near beginning of project when new to Early Ford V8ís & FB. Very Green @!the time like the grease in the Chinese Thrust Bearing
Rumbleseat (Paul Garrigan RIP) always replaced the grease in any of the

throwout bearings that he used with a quality grease. I can't find it now, but somewhere here on the "Barn", someone posted how he did it.
Ken
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Old 12-14-2019, 07:44 AM   #21
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Default Re: Pulling engine

I think his reference to the green grease was from the pilot bearing, which he was calling a “thrust bearing”..........at least I think that’s what he meant.

I don’t trust the chinee sealed ball bearing type pilot bearings. For a long time we usually recommended the oilite type pilot bearing (aka pilot bushing to some folks). I found a source of Japanese ball type pilot bearings (made by Naichi) so we’re now happy with both types. The Japanese bearings I bought are also used in the old generators, so they come with a snap ring groove but it presses into the flywheel just the same.
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:40 AM   #22
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Picture worth a thousand words
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File Type: jpg 193132E9-15F5-45B7-813C-B34EFC653C84.jpg (67.6 KB, 63 views)
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:34 PM   #23
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Never used the word Thrust Bearing until I got the ‘35 Ford. I thought someone corrected me and said it’s called that when I said Throw out Bearing. It is what I used to call a throw out Bearing & still do on my 442. With regard to my pilot bearing pressed into the FW it’s the Ball Bearing type. Still looks fine. If I have to pull the engine I inspect & replace all stuff u only see after Engines out.
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Last edited by AnthonyG; 12-14-2019 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Isn't the rear main bearing called the thrust bearing?
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:38 PM   #25
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Obviously don’t have a clue. I’m going back to what I always & seems should’ve stayed w “ ‘Throwout Bearing’ is what I’m talking about & in the Pic., LOL here’s a pic of the Green mint jelly Chinese grease ( centrifugal green streaks) on the clutch plate.
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Last edited by AnthonyG; 12-14-2019 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 12-14-2019, 03:00 PM   #26
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Default Re: Pulling engine

In my 60 plus years of doing this I have never heard "thrust bearing"; always "throwout bearing". As "marko39" states, most engines have a "thrust surface" on one of their main bearings, which I believe could confuse the issue. I'm stickin' with "throwout bearing".
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Old 12-14-2019, 04:46 PM   #27
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Not to be confused with clutch release bearing.
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Old 12-14-2019, 07:23 PM   #28
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Since we are talking about the throwout bearing, clutch release bearing,
Here is Rumbleseats lubrication procedure for the throwout bearing. I know that JWL isn't fond of this procedure, but if done carefully, it sure beats that poopy green chinese lubricant.
Ken


THROW-OUT BEARING LUBRICATION: These used to come packed with a relatively
heavy high-temp quality grease. Then manufacturers went to a cheap thin grease
and not much of it. Consequently, bearings no longer last. The cheap grease
thins from the high temperatures generated in the clutch area and is soon slung
out of the throw-out bearing. This not only causes the bearing to run relatively
dry, it can also cause grease to get on the clutch and flywheel engagement
surfaces which promotes clutch chatter and erratic engagement. One of the added
benefits(?) is you get to listen to the throw-out bearing let out a blood
curdling howl on cold days and in front of your buddies. Neat! While rotating
the bearing slowly you can feel any bearing roughness. New throw-out bearings
are lucky to last 15,000 to 20,000 miles before they start their howling act.
(From rodnut: There are two or three different grades of throwout bearings.)
A cure I use is to grease them myself .... new and used! These can be greased
without much effort. I wash the new or used bearing in solvent until Iím certain
all of the cheap grease used by the manufacturer is gone. Dry it without
spinning it (low heat or compressed air). Drill a single 1/8" hole on the outer
edge of the bearing (not in the engagement surface nor in the outer bearing
race). This is pretty hard and a good bit is needed. Then I use a needle type
U-joint grease zerk adapter and give it TWO shots of high temp grease. Rotate
the bearing half way around and give it TWO more shots of grease. Thatís all
the grease itíll need for well past 50,000 miles. Rotate the bearing several
times to disperse the grease. I plug the 1/8" hole with a tiny sheet metal screw
and some red Loctite or solder it shut. Either works. In my Ranchero, Iíve got
over 200,000 miles on the same throw-out bearing using this method.... and this
is after it first howled.
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Old 12-14-2019, 07:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Odd, with the dozens of standard shift cars I have had since the late fifties (some for many years and many miles), I have never had a throwout bearing go bad.
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: Pulling engine

First for me too, but this is also my first really antique Ford config. Had many post ‘50 Chevys, couple Oldsmobile’s one Plymouth, several Mustangs, & a Pontiac! All sticks never a bad Throwout Bearing. I will say was always my common practice as the Throwout Bearing & the clutch plate were pretty inexpensive, if I had the Tranny off always put new ones in.
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:34 AM   #31
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Default Re: Pulling engine

I run a generator roller bearing for the pilot (as Mac VanPelt noted) and usually replace the throw-out bearing as standard procedure.
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:46 PM   #32
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Looking at the picture in post #22 (and blowing it up) I see green grease on the tip of the input shaft and a thin sheen on the input splines. I tend to agree with Mac VP that the grease is coming from the pilot bearing. It is strange that so much made its way back to the throw out bearing guide, but I don't see any on the throw out bearing itself.
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:00 PM   #33
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Default Re: Pulling engine

Throw out bearings should be sealed today. they typically last longer than the clutch disc unless the nut behind the wheel rests his foot on the clutch pedal or the clutch is out of adjustment with no free play.
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Old 12-16-2019, 05:37 PM   #34
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Default Re: Pulling engine

FYI, pilot Bearing is fine, definately the Throw out Bearing not only throwing Chinese green grease but also the Bearing has a lot of play between ball bearings & races. FYI for Phil, no nuts behind the pedal, always got 100k To 200k miles out of all my clutches, depending on how much I raced them, for 54 yrs. Even s nut behind the controls would have s hard time wrecking a Throwout Bearing or clutch in 2000 miles, PS clutch is fine & had enough free play.
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