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Old 12-10-2019, 01:36 PM   #1
Russ/40
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Default Lifter & Spring Questions

My memory fails me these days, but is there a definitive answer to the question:
Is it safe to use the early stock Ford lifters with the small foot of straight valves? I'm using Chevy valves and grinding stems for a valve job on my V8. I remember there were fears that the smaller foot of the valves may work their way through the early lifters. I suspect this is nonsense, but maybe I'm wrong - can't remember. The lifters are the hollow ones.

Also, what should the installed height be on stock springs with a Isky 77B cam? Which set of keeper grooves should I use. The short one or the long one? I realize the installed height should tell me....

Please and thank you!
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Old 12-10-2019, 02:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

There is only one keeper groove the other is for a stem seal.


R
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Old 12-10-2019, 02:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

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Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
There is only one keeper groove the other is for a stem seal.


R
Which is which?
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Old 12-10-2019, 02:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

That style lifters break sometimes under normal conditions...adding spring tension and running non mushroom valves isnīt exactly raising the odds for sucess...
The modern lifters are lighter to....
Lashcaps may solve the footprint issue...still i prefer the later lifters !
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Old 12-10-2019, 04:13 PM   #5
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

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Originally Posted by Russ/40 View Post
Which is which?

The top groove is used for an oil seal in the Chevy application.


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Old 12-10-2019, 04:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

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Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
The top groove is used for an oil seal in the Chevy application.


R
Sort of depends on how you're looking at the valve, the groove closest to the valve "tip" is for the locks. The next one down is the seal groove! Photo below!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I've posted this numerous times up here, we stopped using any Chevy valves in Flathead builds over 40 years ago. Russ will probably see why before he's finished. It takes a bunch of "doing" to get the proper installed spring hgts and get the lash where it's needed! The Chevy valves will likely yield a 2.200" I.H.?? Springs will not even be close. It was exactly for this reason a few years back we made the "adjustable" spring hgt guides, they will hold up to 5 or 6 .060" shims, photo below here!
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Old 12-10-2019, 06:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

Gary, thanks for the input. This engine was built by a "so called professional" years ago, and was run for a very short time due to a cracked bore that the builder missed. One cylinder was sleeved, without a step at the bottom. The valve train was chevy with the locks in the shortest top location. Valve seats were installed in all positions, but with the most awful valve seat job I have ever seen. Not a single valve was seating well.
Your thoughts on the valve choice is heard, and I have a ton of new valves from diff sources so I should be able to find a more appropriate choice. I don't recall what lifters you use? Gary, what is your take on the earlier tappets and straight stem valves? If I recall, you use adjustables, is that right.
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

The spring pressure for a street cam should only be 45/50LBs installed length of the spring. So the length and type of keeper is immaterial. Yes the solid lifters work well, in the 90's they were all I could et and used them in many engines./ Now if you feel the spring pressure is too low, run what makes you happy. For years I ran 60/70 lbs worked oK, I think.
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:27 AM   #9
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

Ron, that is not a solid lifter. If it was I would not be concerned about poking a hole in it with the stem of a straight valve. Big difference in the foot of a straight verses mushroom stem.
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

Looks like a solid lifter. I know my eyesight is bad, but???
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:58 AM   #11
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

For what is worth I have seen many of the larger top face lifters used with straight stem valves without any problem. Probably floating the valves would reveal a difference but, then, floating the valves probably ain't likely.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

I don't think you'll have a problem with those lifters . . . also, they're already broken in with the cam in the engine, so I'd use them. Make sure they go back in the same lifter bores.

Given that this is a street engine, you don't need much more than 50 lbs on the seat - as you're not going to rev the heck out of it anyway. The only way to know the installed spring height is to have a spring put on a spring tester (auto-machine shops have them) - and see what height gives you 50 lbs. There is no way to know what the correct installed height is without doing this step.
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Old 12-11-2019, 11:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

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Looks like a solid lifter. I know my eyesight is bad, but???
I think Russ means hollow as not solid... Ron means solid as non- adjustable... or maybe I just confused everybody.... Mark
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

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Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
Looks like a solid lifter. I know my eyesight is bad, but???
The lighting is deceiving Ron. I can see why you thought they were solid. They are the early lifters before Ford went to the super lightweights.
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Last edited by Russ/40; 12-11-2019 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

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Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked View Post
I don't think you'll have a problem with those lifters . . . also, they're already broken in with the cam in the engine, so I'd use them. Make sure they go back in the same lifter bores.
Actually the engine has adjustables , but the valve job was so bad that if I'm starting over from scratch, I thought I'd do it the Ford way, grinding stem for the lash.
I have kept everything sorted as they were.
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Old 12-11-2019, 12:43 PM   #16
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Smile Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

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Originally Posted by JWL View Post
For what is worth I have seen many of the larger top face lifters used with straight stem valves without any problem. Probably floating the valves would reveal a difference but, then, floating the valves probably ain't likely.
I see you point John. A valve coming down meeting a lifter going up, could add some force, but not likely going to happen.
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Old 12-11-2019, 01:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

Hey Russ....You did mention that they are the HOLLOW lifters only once. So for the sake of Ron's diminished eyesight, these are the HOLLOW, SOLID lifters that we've all seen a bazillion times. DD


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Old 12-11-2019, 04:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

Yes , solid as in not hydraulic, even if hollow it's solid . Life gets so confusing.
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Old 12-11-2019, 05:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

How thick is the surface of that lifter where it meets the stem of the valve? Just curious...
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Old 12-11-2019, 07:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lifter & Spring Questions

WOW!!! they are hollow, Never seen one of these before, Never say never. Probably a 500 hp flathead out there some where, just haven't seen it yet???
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