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Old 07-20-2021, 02:53 PM   #1
pistonbroke
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Default new valve seats for a 53 EAC

Hi all, Just a question here . Is there some magic to counter boring a 53 block so it will except hard valve seats? Here in the south Puget Sound area nobody seems to be able to do it. My block checked out good for no cracks other then the one they all seem to have between the bolt hole ad water jacket. (I thought for a minuet I may have found the only one known to man with out any cracks when the first side showed none) Anyway I need to find a shop that can help me bore the block so I can install the hard seats and so far, all I've gotten is the deer in the headlights look when I ask if they can do it. Thanks, Tim
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Old 07-20-2021, 04:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

The problem is probably associated to their modern machines which do not have height or girth needed for an entire block to " fit". I use the Kwik-Way portable unit which clamps to the block rather than the block clamping into a machine. Try to find a shop with noted longevity who probably have portable machinery.
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Old 07-20-2021, 05:29 PM   #3
cadillac512
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

Aso,look for a shop that does diesel engine machine work such as semi truck, farm tractor and construction equipment sized engines. They are more likely to have the larger equipment to accommodate a flathead block. Piloting the cutting head may be a challenge for some machinery as well.
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Old 07-20-2021, 05:40 PM   #4
19Fordy
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

Whatever you do, don't let "a company" learn on your block.
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Old 07-20-2021, 06:22 PM   #5
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

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Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
Whatever you do, don't let "a company" learn on your block.
Agreed.

I thought there was one or a few threads about cutting seats into a block that didn't come with them on here. I believe Ronnie Roadster, Pete, Bored & Stroked, & JWL all chimed in.

If I am remembering correctly, they mentioned some crucial measurements that needed to be observed. It may be worth a search to see if the thread turns up.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:39 AM   #6
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

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Find a shop with a Winona PH-2000 or a Serdi mach they can fit the block.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...achine.627796/

look in the above post there is a reply from Go Fast contact that shop for info.



R
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Old 07-21-2021, 06:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

Try Outside Machine Services in Lakewood. Ask for Brad. I think they have a Serdi.

Depending on how bad the current seats are, it may be cheaper to put in big valves with no seat rings.
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Old 07-22-2021, 05:53 AM   #8
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

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Originally Posted by Pete View Post
Try Outside Machine Services in Lakewood. Ask for Brad. I think they have a Serdi.

Depending on how bad the current seats are, it may be cheaper to put in big valves with no seat rings.
Pete

If I understand the OP’s question, he has a ‘53 block which most did not have seats. He wants to install them
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Old 07-22-2021, 02:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

If I read original post correctly the block has no removable valve seats. If that is correct then it may be the 1BA casting. If it is the 1BA casting number and the original seats are not damaged theres no reason to have the block machined for valve seats.
If theres something were missing please let us know.
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Old 07-22-2021, 02:42 PM   #10
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

Ronnie, Here's what I have experienced with unleaded gas and no hard seats. The exhaust valve will beat or burn the block or head casting away to the water jacket as I have seen personally on my Windsors. In the case of a flat head you will lose your valve lash as the block material goes away until the valve burns to the point you have no compression. That's the motor I was running in my 41 pickups fate. If there is a better way around this let me Know, as I've said in the past I don't know everything and listen well. Thank you all for the input. it is greatly appreciated, Tim
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Old 07-22-2021, 04:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

I understand about the "no original" seats.

I don't understand comparing flathead Fords to Windsor's.
If there is enough original block material left, you do not need hard seats, especially for a street engine. Hard seats were common on propane fired engines but I saw plenty of those without seat rings that ran just as long as the ones with.

All out flathead Ford race engines running 100% nitro never need hard seats and they
get quite a bit hotter than any street engine.

If you are burning valves, YOU ARE RUNNING LEAN.
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Old 07-22-2021, 04:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

I agree wholeheartedly with Ronnie & Pete. There’s thousands of old engines of all brands running great all over the world with cast heads & blocks and no hardened seats. I myself have built many since unleaded gas came along with Zero issues so far. Besides flatheads many of those orange engines even hot rod engines and no seat inserts. There’s many other issues that can cause seat or valve failure. As Pete eluded to lean mixture is a big one along with having correct valve lash.
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Old 07-22-2021, 06:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

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Originally Posted by KiWinUS View Post
I agree wholeheartedly with Ronnie & Pete. There’s thousands of old engines of all brands running great all over the world with cast heads & blocks and no hardened seats. I myself have built many since unleaded gas came along with Zero issues so far. Besides flatheads many of those orange engines even hot rod engines and no seat inserts. There’s many other issues that can cause seat or valve failure. As Pete eluded to lean mixture is a big one along with having correct valve lash.
Agree with Pete and KiWi.... I've had seat-rings put in a couple, before I knew any better. So far, for me, unnecessary. I'm not going to live long enough to ever need seat-rings. (Referring to street-driven.)
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Old 07-22-2021, 06:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

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Originally Posted by pistonbroke View Post
Ronnie, Here's what I have experienced with unleaded gas and no hard seats. The exhaust valve will beat or burn the block or head casting away to the water jacket as I have seen personally on my Windsors. In the case of a flat head you will lose your valve lash as the block material goes away until the valve burns to the point you have no compression. That's the motor I was running in my 41 pickups fate. If there is a better way around this let me Know, as I've said in the past I don't know everything and listen well. Thank you all for the input. it is greatly appreciated, Tim


Tim as noted by Pete and KIWinUS there's something else wrong if a flathead Ford block valve seat has gone away. My experience with my all out gas burring flatheads with the valve seat ground on the Ford flathead block casting has proven to me there's no need for a replacement valve seat. The Ford block iron has never failed me. I can tell you the extreme exhaust heat produced in my race engines requires the very best valve available I use Manley Severe duty valves which after a few runs are in need of grinding. The block valve seats are always fine a simple lapping on seats with the valve after grinding and its good to go once again. Your experience with the 41 engine is strange all of the early engines I have built so far have had no failures like that. Could it be the opposite has taken place the valve begins burning thus the seat is now becoming damaged. Poor quality off shore import valves maybe caused the initial problem.
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Owner , Builder, Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH
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Old 07-22-2021, 07:29 PM   #15
pistonbroke
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

well guys I'm Sorley tempted but the 53 merc has one seat that is not salvageable(rust from sitting) and I forgot to mention the current mill in my 41 is out of a 53 ford pickup so it has no stelite seats either and only god knows what punishment it has had. It also has the bowl to bore crack so Im thinking the Nevada desert got the better of it as that's where it came from. I do thank all of you for your input. It is very educational to say the least and I am listening. Tim
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Old 07-22-2021, 11:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

One little thing I forgot about but JWL's comment about using a portable machining unit brought it to mind. NONE of the modern machines used for seat installation have a rolling tool. This has a small roller that "kneads" the edge of the block into a small chamfer on the ring after installation. This will keep the seat ring in if the block develops a crack under the ring which would normally release the ring to destroy the engine.
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Old 07-23-2021, 05:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: new valve seats for a 53 EAC

If the original seat cannot be saved why not put a 1.6 or larger valve in that hole to move the seat face out to a "better" area.
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