The Ford Barn

Cape Codder · 10-25-2018, 11:00 AM

steve s It is too late as the engine has been drained of water, water pump is off and all bolts to head are loose. Problem is head won't come off so I have ordered a head puller which hopefully will be here Saturday. When I get it back together I will try your suggestion.

Tom Wesenberg · 10-25-2018, 11:12 AM

Start soaking all the studs with Kroil ASAP.

steve s · 10-25-2018, 12:09 PM

Did you try just turning the engine over with the starter after backing off the nuts just a few turns?

30 Closed Cab PU · 10-25-2018, 12:30 PM

Tom and Steve have great ideas. Even if you have previously tried Steve's suggestion but not Tom's, do Tom's and try again. You can actually run the motor. As the head lifts the distributor/cam shaft should raise with the head, and immediately shuts off the motor.

I had a particularly stubborn head, the mechanic tried this method, did not have a puller, tried using a motor hoist and had the front end off the ground, had to resort to soft wedges. Ends up there was so much rust from sitting for 50 years with a bad gasket he was not sure a puller would have worked.

Cape Codder · 10-25-2018, 01:27 PM

Tom Wesenberg I have been soaking the bolts to no avail. I have had 5 - 6 bolts come out and all are unrusted maybe because they are chrome molly bolts.

steve s that was the first thing I did and the rear lifted just a bit! I'm done using the scraper and waiting for the puller. I also tried some HARD WOOD WEDGES but that also didn't help.

I installed the head gasket myself some 11,000+ miles ago which was the NEW head gasket at the time i.e. with the RED sealant around all the bolt holes etc. and believe the gasket itself is holding the front of the head down.

Cape Codder · 10-25-2018, 01:31 PM

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I forgot to acknowledge 30 Closed CabPU for his response. You can see above my response.

Also thanks to Tom Wesenberg and steve s for your suggestions and response.

1crosscut · 10-25-2018, 03:45 PM

The puller will help get the head off. They work pretty well. Once the head is all the way to the top of the head studs it will not be able to lift it any farther. You can then attach a engine lift to the puller and use that to get it the rest of the way off if it still needs help. Be careful though if you do because the head can separate pretty suddenly causing damage the junction box or firewall etc...
Another option is to make spacers out of 1/4' nuts by grinding the tips off making them round. They will then be able to sit on top of the four head studs the puller pushes against and have room to recess into the head. Sometimes several need to be stacked on top of each other to get a head all the way off.

katy · 10-26-2018, 08:32 AM

Quote:

with the RED sealant around all the bolt holes etc

That's probably what's holding the head on.

30 Closed Cab PU · 10-26-2018, 09:09 AM

I have not seen additional sealing around the bolts mentioned before in my short time as a Barn member. Is this recommended, and if yes why?

cpf240 · 10-26-2018, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

I have not seen additional sealing around the bolts mentioned before in my short time as a Barn member. Is this recommended, and if yes why?

Perhaps to keep any water leaks from rusting the studs?

Benson · 10-26-2018, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpf240

Perhaps to keep any water leaks from rusting the studs?

Reason number 27 to use antifreeze.

Simple solution to rusted stud problem is to use antifreeze mixed with the water!!

Just sayin ....

Cape Codder · 10-26-2018, 01:17 PM

30 Closed Cab PU The gasket that I have on the engine right now is pictured below, hopefully ...........but is listed in Snyders P/N A-6051-M. Sorry didn't work, but check it out in Snyder's catalog online listed under Parts on the home page of this site.

cpf240 That is the reason I used it but............now I have questions because I really think that is what's holding it on.

Benson I have been using antifreeze in the motor ALONG with DISTILLED WATER. As I said the bolts that have come out attached to the nut don't have any rust on them.

30 Closed Cab PU · 10-26-2018, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

30 Closed Cab PU The gasket that I have on the engine right now is pictured below, hopefully ...........but is listed in Snyders P/N A-6051-M. Sorry didn't work, but check it out in Snyder's catalog online listed under Parts on the home page of this site.

cpf240 That is the reason I used it but............now I have questions because I really think that is what's holding it on.

Benson I have been using antifreeze in the motor ALONG with DISTILLED WATER. As I said the bolts that have come out attached to the nut don't have any rust on them.

No need for the picture, I was asking you and the others the purpose of sealing the bolts, and if it is recommended. By the way you do a great job of responding to everyone, I really appreciate that.

CSPIDY · 10-26-2018, 01:45 PM

Backfire= fire out the carb usually caused by ignition problems
Afterfire=fire out the exhaust usually caused by valve; timing, leaking or burnt

Cape Codder · 11-02-2018, 10:30 AM

Just an update on my problem. As I had said we opted to pull the head. We bought the head puller from Brattons but to be truthful, I was disappointed in its operation. The #7 bolt which works with the puller was not as accessible as to other three to get a wrench on. The wrench was hitting on the high spot of the head because of the tunnel, for a lack of a better word, that goes forward to the water pump, and also the fitting supplied that goes in the #1 spark plug hole. We, therefore, decided to pull the remaining bolts from the head, with #7 giving us considerable trouble.

After getting the head off we observed that the gasket between #3 & #4 was intact. This was the reason we removed the head as the compression check showed 48lbs. in #3 and #60 in the rest of the cylinders. We also had done a blowdown test which showed air coming from #4 and when we put air to #4 we had air coming from #3. These two tests indicated to me that the head gasket was blown.

I will check the head for straightness today and if needed take it to the machine shop and have it ground. Wonder how much is left to take off?

As always any comments would be welcome relating to this latest event!

heneste · 11-02-2018, 11:55 AM

If the head is straight and not the issue with the compression loss, would a poor valve seat, bent valve or sticking valve let air from #3 to #4 and vice versa?

Cape Codder · 11-02-2018, 04:28 PM

30 Closed Cab PU Thanks for the compliment! I try.

heneste Thanks for your response. I just returned from the machinest and he declared that the head is in fact FLAP! However, in the same breath, he said I should have it planned because he saw some spots that were too ruff into the head.

As to determining if there is a poor valve seat or bent valve I don't know how to determine that. After cleaning up from the head removal i.e. cleaning the gasket off I will get into checking the valve clearances sooo...if there is anything wrong I should be able to determine that.

steve s · 11-02-2018, 09:59 PM

gonna be a heck of a note if the problem was a plugged jet in the carb.

Fred K-OR · 11-02-2018, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve s

gonna be a heck of a note if the problem was a plugged jet in the carb.

X2. I agree.

GPierce · 11-03-2018, 01:21 PM

Sure would have changed the carb before I pulled the head. Both times I had backfiring was a carb issue.

10-25-2018, 11:00 AM	#61
Cape Codder Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,261	Re: Terriable backfiring steve s It is too late as the engine has been drained of water, water pump is off and all bolts to head are loose. Problem is head won't come off so I have ordered a head puller which hopefully will be here Saturday. When I get it back together I will try your suggestion.

10-25-2018, 11:12 AM	#62
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Terriable backfiring Start soaking all the studs with Kroil ASAP.

10-25-2018, 12:09 PM	#63
steve s Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kalamazoo Posts: 1,656	Re: Terriable backfiring Did you try just turning the engine over with the starter after backing off the nuts just a few turns?

10-25-2018, 12:30 PM	#64
30 Closed Cab PU Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,332	Re: Terriable backfiring Tom and Steve have great ideas. Even if you have previously tried Steve's suggestion but not Tom's, do Tom's and try again. You can actually run the motor. As the head lifts the distributor/cam shaft should raise with the head, and immediately shuts off the motor. I had a particularly stubborn head, the mechanic tried this method, did not have a puller, tried using a motor hoist and had the front end off the ground, had to resort to soft wedges. Ends up there was so much rust from sitting for 50 years with a bad gasket he was not sure a puller would have worked.

10-25-2018, 01:27 PM	#65
Cape Codder Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,261	Re: Terriable backfiring Tom Wesenberg I have been soaking the bolts to no avail. I have had 5 - 6 bolts come out and all are unrusted maybe because they are chrome molly bolts. steve s that was the first thing I did and the rear lifted just a bit! I'm done using the scraper and waiting for the puller. I also tried some HARD WOOD WEDGES but that also didn't help. I installed the head gasket myself some 11,000+ miles ago which was the NEW head gasket at the time i.e. with the RED sealant around all the bolt holes etc. and believe the gasket itself is holding the front of the head down.

10-25-2018, 01:31 PM	#66
Cape Codder Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,261	Re: Terriable backfiring Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I forgot to acknowledge 30 Closed CabPU for his response. You can see above my response. Also thanks to Tom Wesenberg and steve s for your suggestions and response.

10-25-2018, 03:45 PM	#67
1crosscut Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 1,907	Re: Terriable backfiring The puller will help get the head off. They work pretty well. Once the head is all the way to the top of the head studs it will not be able to lift it any farther. You can then attach a engine lift to the puller and use that to get it the rest of the way off if it still needs help. Be careful though if you do because the head can separate pretty suddenly causing damage the junction box or firewall etc... Another option is to make spacers out of 1/4' nuts by grinding the tips off making them round. They will then be able to sit on top of the four head studs the puller pushes against and have room to recess into the head. Sometimes several need to be stacked on top of each other to get a head all the way off. __________________ Dave / Lincoln Nebraska

10-26-2018, 09:09 AM	#69
30 Closed Cab PU Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,332	Re: Terriable backfiring I have not seen additional sealing around the bolts mentioned before in my short time as a Barn member. Is this recommended, and if yes why?

10-26-2018, 01:17 PM	#72
Cape Codder Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,261	Re: Terriable backfiring 30 Closed Cab PU The gasket that I have on the engine right now is pictured below, hopefully ...........but is listed in Snyders P/N A-6051-M. Sorry didn't work, but check it out in Snyder's catalog online listed under Parts on the home page of this site. cpf240 That is the reason I used it but............now I have questions because I really think that is what's holding it on. Benson I have been using antifreeze in the motor ALONG with DISTILLED WATER. As I said the bolts that have come out attached to the nut don't have any rust on them.

10-26-2018, 01:45 PM	#74
CSPIDY Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: West Newton PA Posts: 49	Re: Terriable backfiring Backfire= fire out the carb usually caused by ignition problems Afterfire=fire out the exhaust usually caused by valve; timing, leaking or burnt

11-02-2018, 10:30 AM	#75
Cape Codder Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,261	Re: Terriable backfiring Just an update on my problem. As I had said we opted to pull the head. We bought the head puller from Brattons but to be truthful, I was disappointed in its operation. The #7 bolt which works with the puller was not as accessible as to other three to get a wrench on. The wrench was hitting on the high spot of the head because of the tunnel, for a lack of a better word, that goes forward to the water pump, and also the fitting supplied that goes in the #1 spark plug hole. We, therefore, decided to pull the remaining bolts from the head, with #7 giving us considerable trouble. After getting the head off we observed that the gasket between #3 & #4 was intact. This was the reason we removed the head as the compression check showed 48lbs. in #3 and #60 in the rest of the cylinders. We also had done a blowdown test which showed air coming from #4 and when we put air to #4 we had air coming from #3. These two tests indicated to me that the head gasket was blown. I will check the head for straightness today and if needed take it to the machine shop and have it ground. Wonder how much is left to take off? As always any comments would be welcome relating to this latest event!

11-02-2018, 11:55 AM	#76
heneste Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada Posts: 271	Re: Terriable backfiring If the head is straight and not the issue with the compression loss, would a poor valve seat, bent valve or sticking valve let air from #3 to #4 and vice versa?

11-02-2018, 04:28 PM	#77
Cape Codder Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,261	Re: Terriable backfiring 30 Closed Cab PU Thanks for the compliment! I try. heneste Thanks for your response. I just returned from the machinest and he declared that the head is in fact FLAP! However, in the same breath, he said I should have it planned because he saw some spots that were too ruff into the head. As to determining if there is a poor valve seat or bent valve I don't know how to determine that. After cleaning up from the head removal i.e. cleaning the gasket off I will get into checking the valve clearances sooo...if there is anything wrong I should be able to determine that.

11-02-2018, 09:59 PM	#78
steve s Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kalamazoo Posts: 1,656	Re: Terriable backfiring gonna be a heck of a note if the problem was a plugged jet in the carb.

11-03-2018, 01:21 PM	#80
GPierce Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Germantown,TN Posts: 516	Re: Terriable backfiring Sure would have changed the carb before I pulled the head. Both times I had backfiring was a carb issue.