The Ford Barn

JT1930 · 03-22-2020, 08:16 PM

I forgot or just having a brain fart but I installed my aluminum timing gear on my D&L cam. Put it in the motor (‘37 21 stud) and thought the crank gear had a timing dot like the later flatheads but none to be found. Timing gear has the dash near the teeth but don’t know what to line it with on crank. What am I missing and what needs to be lined up. Or do I have to degree this thing. Thanks.

JSeery · 03-22-2020, 08:18 PM

The gear should be marked. Sometimes it's a small dash mark. Any chance you put the gear on backward?

JT1930 · 03-22-2020, 08:24 PM

Well there is a dash mark on the inner area where it lines up with the camshaft mark. Where you press it on. I looked on the other side and saw nothing.

JSeery · 03-22-2020, 08:26 PM

Sorry, I'm not much help. Someone will post that knows what's up!

Talkwrench · 03-22-2020, 11:05 PM

Should be a mark...

Tinker · 03-22-2020, 11:10 PM

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Should have a dot or triangle. Guess you could degree it? Better minds will know.

No timing marks after to set timing on 221s with a light. Many threads on making a pointer off one of the timing case bolts (or a pointed bolt itself) and making a file mark on the crank pulley. But that only is good if the cam gear is on right.

.

JM 35 Sedan · 03-22-2020, 11:51 PM

I made a post some years ago that had pictures showing the timing mark on cam shaft hub, cam shaft timing gear at ID where it presses onto cam shaft hub, and timing marks on both cam timing gear and crankshaft timing gear in the area where those gears mesh. In other words there are four timing marks that must all be lined up correctly on the early FH engine components, or timing will not be correct. If I can find that post in the archives, I'll add the URL here.

Tinker · 03-23-2020, 12:08 AM

John I looked, I can't find it. I'll look more.

V8COOPMAN · 03-23-2020, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT1930

I forgot or just having a brain fart but I installed my aluminum timing gear on my D&L cam. Put it in the motor (‘37 21 stud) and thought the crank gear had a timing dot like the later flatheads but none to be found. Timing gear has the dash near the teeth but don’t know what to line it with on crank. What am I missing and what needs to be lined up. Or do I have to degree this thing. Thanks.

JT …...Read the thread in the link below. Same situation with a '37 engine. Pay particular attention to post #30 and the discussion about identifying the PROPER marks in the pictures. Also pay attention to the picture in post #43. Hope this helps. Click on the link below! DD

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...r+timing+marks

Mart · 03-23-2020, 03:44 AM

If it is the same as a 59A or 99 Merc then the two marks align when the crank is at TDC on No.1 cylinder.

I show it in this video at around the 27 minute mark:

https://youtu.be/7VECw-wcdhs

Hopefully the 21stud should be similar. By freezing the video you should be able to work out the relationship between the position of the mark on the gear tooth and the keyway. Note the tooth is marked on the crank gear and the gap between the teeth is marked on the cam gear.

Mart.

Mart · 03-23-2020, 03:57 AM

I marked up a snip.

The crank gear mark is a little over 2-1/2 teeth around from the keyway.
At TDC the slot in cam is at roughly 45 degrees. the remnants of the centre are as highlighted in the pic.

Mart.

flatheadmurre · 03-23-2020, 03:59 AM

Doesn´t matter what year of a flathead...crankgear mark should be 3rd tooth clockwise from key...hope i got that right...lol
Had to rethink a couple of times...

Mart · 03-23-2020, 04:04 AM

Actually Murre's more right than me. I'd say closer to three than 2-1/2. (but not quite a full three teeth.)

A hunch tells me it's at 45 degrees so 22/8 = 2.75. (22 teeth)

JT1930 · 03-23-2020, 06:04 AM

Thank you everyone. I was mostly looking at the tooth for a dot like my other cranks I have in my attic. I will look closer and clean the crank gear more. Thank you. !

JT1930 · 03-23-2020, 08:02 PM

Sorry everyone. I cleaned the crank gear and found it. It’s not a dot bit it is a little circle instead. Got her lined up and on to the valvetrain.

JM 35 Sedan · 03-23-2020, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

John I looked, I can't find it. I'll look more.

Tinker, I couldn't find it either. It's possible that the post title said nothing about timing, making it very difficult to find.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT1930

Sorry everyone. I cleaned the crank gear and found it. It’s not a dot bit it is a little circle instead. Got her lined up and on to the valvetrain.

JT, good to hear all is set correctly now, and your able to move on to your next challenge

03-22-2020, 08:16 PM	#1
JT1930 Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Glocester, Rhode Island Posts: 81	21 stud timing marks ? I forgot or just having a brain fart but I installed my aluminum timing gear on my D&L cam. Put it in the motor (‘37 21 stud) and thought the crank gear had a timing dot like the later flatheads but none to be found. Timing gear has the dash near the teeth but don’t know what to line it with on crank. What am I missing and what needs to be lined up. Or do I have to degree this thing. Thanks. Last edited by JT1930; 03-22-2020 at 08:38 PM.

03-22-2020, 08:18 PM	#2
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 21 stud timing marks ? The gear should be marked. Sometimes it's a small dash mark. Any chance you put the gear on backward?

03-22-2020, 11:05 PM	#5
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: 21 stud timing marks ? Should be a mark... __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

03-22-2020, 11:10 PM	#6
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: 21 stud timing marks ? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Should have a dot or triangle. Guess you could degree it? Better minds will know. No timing marks after to set timing on 221s with a light. Many threads on making a pointer off one of the timing case bolts (or a pointed bolt itself) and making a file mark on the crank pulley. But that only is good if the cam gear is on right. . Last edited by Tinker; 03-22-2020 at 11:23 PM.

03-22-2020, 11:51 PM	#7
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: 21 stud timing marks ? I made a post some years ago that had pictures showing the timing mark on cam shaft hub, cam shaft timing gear at ID where it presses onto cam shaft hub, and timing marks on both cam timing gear and crankshaft timing gear in the area where those gears mesh. In other words there are four timing marks that must all be lined up correctly on the early FH engine components, or timing will not be correct. If I can find that post in the archives, I'll add the URL here. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein*

03-22-2020, 08:24 PM	#3
JT1930 Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Glocester, Rhode Island Posts: 81	Re: 21 stud timing marks ? Well there is a dash mark on the inner area where it lines up with the camshaft mark. Where you press it on. I looked on the other side and saw nothing.

03-22-2020, 08:26 PM	#4
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 21 stud timing marks ? Sorry, I'm not much help. Someone will post that knows what's up!

03-23-2020, 12:08 AM	#8
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: 21 stud timing marks ? John I looked, I can't find it. I'll look more.

03-23-2020, 03:44 AM	#10
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,750	Re: 21 stud timing marks ? If it is the same as a 59A or 99 Merc then the two marks align when the crank is at TDC on No.1 cylinder. I show it in this video at around the 27 minute mark: https://youtu.be/7VECw-wcdhs Hopefully the 21stud should be similar. By freezing the video you should be able to work out the relationship between the position of the mark on the gear tooth and the keyway. Note the tooth is marked on the crank gear and the gap between the teeth is marked on the cam gear. Mart. Last edited by Mart; 03-23-2020 at 03:49 AM.

03-23-2020, 03:59 AM	#12
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: 21 stud timing marks ? Doesn´t matter what year of a flathead...crankgear mark should be 3rd tooth clockwise from key...hope i got that right...lol Had to rethink a couple of times... Last edited by flatheadmurre; 03-23-2020 at 04:00 AM. Reason: Mart beat me to it with a nice pic...

03-23-2020, 06:04 AM	#14
JT1930 Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Glocester, Rhode Island Posts: 81	Re: 21 stud timing marks ? Thank you everyone. I was mostly looking at the tooth for a dot like my other cranks I have in my attic. I will look closer and clean the crank gear more. Thank you. !

03-23-2020, 08:02 PM	#15
JT1930 Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Glocester, Rhode Island Posts: 81	Re: 21 stud timing marks ? Sorry everyone. I cleaned the crank gear and found it. It’s not a dot bit it is a little circle instead. Got her lined up and on to the valvetrain.