T5 Valley Machining Kit

[G_Don]

Hey guys,

I recently moved to San Diego, due to work and I'll be here a few years. I plan on shipping out my 30 phaeton. It has a B block and a stock A trans. I have zero welding ability but I am decent at assembling and disassembling things. I plan on running the banger but want a t5 behind it to give me a little bit extra drivability (potentially even take the car on the highway).

I saw a kit from valley machine shop in bakersfield.
https://valleymachineshop.com/model-a-parts.html

with some of the directions below
https://www.lainefamily.com/ModelAFi...rsionParts.pdf

It looks like a nice kit, and I'd rather spend a little money and get a kit I can more or less bolt into my A, seeing as my welding and machining skills are nonexistent.

Does anyone have any experience with it? I'd like to know how you like it since you completed the conversion?

I read a review from one member on their manual speedometer cable for the t5 and it was positive, and have seen their kit mentioned on here, but no reviews on it are on here or the HAMB.

Anyway, if anyone knows anything I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!
Gordy

[PotvinV8]

I haven't seen a kit yet that relocates the rear wishbone's front mount so that the rear yoke and transmission output shaft are on the same plane, nor have I seen one that includes a bolt-on solution to solve the requirement of a third-link to control the rear axle wrap that was controlled by the torque tube.

Here's my installation using Vintage Metalworks' kit...

https://clampdowncomp.com/tech/insta...-model-a-ford/

Take note, lots of fabrication to get things right and no bolt on options. All the other kits are the same or worse. FYI.

[Bruce of MN]

You ought to consider a Mitchell overdrive. I installed mine this spring by myself, except for getting a neighbor to help push the u-joint onto the trans output shaft. It truly was a bolt-in.

[Jack Shaft]

Put a "39" ford transmission in before the Mitchell and get modern synchronized shifting with better gear ratios than the A...no cutting,keep the torque tube,one kit does it all.

[Jim Brierley]

The T-5 works really well in the Model A. I have one in my Vicky, it also has an OHV conversion and hydraulic brakes. If you are going to much freeway driving, brake improvements are definitely needed. I can easily cruise at 65 mph. T-5's come in a variety of gear ratios, and OD ratios, choose carefully, and have fun! Welding the seam on the radius rods may be OK for average driving, but more is needed if you do any racing.

[Chris Haynes]

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The Valley Machine unit also requires cutting the crossmember.

[1930pu]

I used his open rear kit with the speedometer adapter on it, very nice, good guy to deal with. He installed the pinion for me. For the t5 adapter I used a kit from vintage metalworks in Ohio his name is Dave again nice guy to deal with it come with the aluminum adapter, clutch disc etc. Very easy to install and I used the s10 t5 and AA bellhousing. I am very glad I did it and would do it again... Jim

[vernlee]

Originally Posted by 1930pu

I used his open rear kit with the speedometer adapter on it, very nice, good guy to deal with. He installed the pinion for me. For the t5 adapter I used a kit from vintage metalworks in Ohio his name is Dave again nice guy to deal with it come with the aluminum adapter, clutch disc etc. Very easy to install and I used the s10 t5 and AA bellhousing. I am very glad I did it and would do it again... Jim

Got any pictures of your set up ? would love to see them , I'm doing the same thing

[1930pu]

I am not good with pictures etc. I will try to get someone to help. both of their websites show the parts. Valley machine sells all the other parts, reworked brake parts, radias rod mounting, trans mount, brake/clutch pedal support even the open drive shaft. Vintage metal works only sells the trans adapter, clutch etc. I made all my other parts. I am happy with both companies. JIm

[vernlee]

https://clampdowncomp.com/tech/insta...-model-a-ford/

this is the best I have found , if the pics are a hassle don't worry about it , just fun to see other peoples projects

[holdover]

Just curious what is the all done price of this conversion not including any labor, using the supplied parts?

[vernlee]

https://vintagemetalworks.blogspot.c...-adapters.html
here's the kit , hard to say total price , there is definitely some fab. work needed

[brokenspoke]

keep the torque tube with a T5 out of a 4x4 Blazer

[DBSHELTON]

Originally Posted by brokenspoke

keep the torque tube with a T5 out of a 4x4 Blazer

Who makes these parts?

[steve hackel]

PotvinV8 ; do you have any other pictures of the additional /modified Tremec shifter assembly that moves the 2nd shifter forward to the original position? I have seen pictures of this or similar modified shifters in other posts, but none of them explained how it was done. Can you help out on this one? Thanks

[brokenspoke]

Crazydaddyo makes adapter for 4x4 T-5 from S10 Blazer , which keeps the torque tube

[Bruce of MN]

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1040

[G_Don]

I think, due to Valley Machining being 2 hour away from me in San Diego and Vintage Metalworks being in Ohio, due to distance I would go with Valley Machining just in case I really get hung up on something.

I was thinking that the only fabricating I'd have to do is the cutting of the cross member, but in the link I posted it says something about "radius rod stitch welding." I'm a bit of an amateur and I'm not sure I understand what is required for "radius rod stitch welding." Other than those two things is there any real fabricating/cutting/welding I'd need to do, or have done, to complete the conversion??

Also decide whether I want open drive or closed drive. I'm not a purist and I'm not partial to keeping the torque tube, I'd like to do whatever is cheaper/safer for more daily driving. I plan on putting hydraulic brakes on it soon after completing the t5 swap for highway driving.

I really appreciate all the help and input you guys have been coming back with.

Gordy

[Jim Brierley]

The radius rods are not a solid tube, they have an open seam at the bottom, full length. Welding the seam does strengthen them a little, may be OK for normal touring, but under any severe use they will flex and likely break.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by G_Don

I think, due to Valley Machining being 2 hour away from me in San Diego and Vintage Metalworks being in Ohio, due to distance I would go with Valley Machining just in case I really get hung up on something.

I was thinking that the only fabricating I'd have to do is the cutting of the cross member, but in the link I posted it says something about "radius rod stitch welding." I'm a bit of an amateur and I'm not sure I understand what is required for "radius rod stitch welding." Other than those two things is there any real fabricating/cutting/welding I'd need to do, or have done, to complete the conversion??

Also decide whether I want open drive or closed drive. I'm not a purist and I'm not partial to keeping the torque tube, I'd like to do whatever is cheaper/safer for more daily driving. I plan on putting hydraulic brakes on it soon after completing the t5 swap for highway driving.

I really appreciate all the help and input you guys have been coming back with.

Gordy

Hey Gordy,
"keeping torque tube'....or not.
If conversion done right without keeping torque tube, if time comes when you have to 'PULL' things to fix/replace, removing U-joint makes lot easier than having to remove entire rear end with torque tube.

[johnneilson]

I have the early kit for the T5 with the stock "A" housing.
It does sit back a little further than the "AA" housing and requires a special clutch disk with extension on the trans input shaft.
I also have it set up as open driveline. Originally, the rear radius rods were stk "A" and a third link. Well, the 3rd link snapped on an up shift, which caused the radius rods to bend and snap, all in about a 1/4? of a second (maybe less time). Lessons learned, a 1/2" 3rd link is not big enough.
I did some searching around at the time and found some "heavy duty" Mod "A" replacement radius rods, I don't remember who, maybe Auto Restorations in Indiana?
My rear ended up as a '35-36 V8 and radius rods reinforced, no 3rd link.

As for the open driveline to do clutch and trans work, well worth it.

John

[PotvinV8]

I don't have any more detailed photos of the shifter setup, it's very much a "what you see is what you get" type situation as it's simply an additional shifter tower I had lying around mated to the T5 shifter on the trans. Everything was fabricated to suit.

[gary678*]

The T5 is a wonderful transmission. The previous owner installed it; I purchased the car almost four years ago and have had no problems. According to the transmission code it is a world class transmission from a Camaro, Firebird, or Chevy S-10 (late 80's/early 90's). My Model A has a 3.78 rear and on local roads I usually am in fourth gear. On open roads in fifth gear I go 55 MPH with an RPM of 2100. Gas mileage on local roads is 16-17 MPG; on trips it is 20-21. I have read some negative reviews on the T5 which I truly do not understand; mine has been perfect; shifts easily with no grinding of gears...a pleasure! Perhaps some of the negativity is a result of poor installation. GD

[G_Don]

I sourced a t5 at the carlisle swap meet (well atleast my dad did) and it is an s10 from a 2.5L v6? that is world class and has the 3.76 gearing.

I'm thinking of two different plans which are
1)going ahead and doing the valley machine open drive kit with the stock model a rear (welded wishbones) and the third link
2)buying a v8 banjo rear (probably a 35/36) and pumpkin U joint adapter from speedway and then just getting a custom made driveshaft, and have the 35/36 radius rods shortened to fit onto the rear transmission mount. Thinking of 35/36 rods just cause I have a set and they're the only ones that bolt to the rear (?).

But I have a few questions.
1)Is there any benefit to running a v8 banjo rear over the model A? I'm assuming they're stronger but just how much? Are they even stronger than a Model A rear if you add the third link?
2) With a seriously hopped up banger and t5 overdrive, will that overpower the stock A rear?

I plan on running hydraulic brakes, so I wouldn't have to modify the backing plates on the 35 rear like you would with a model A rear. Maybe I'm just weighing my options out loud, but I'd like to hear some opinions from guys who have done this conversion one way or another. All input is welcome!

Thanks again for all your guys time and help for a novice like me.
Gordy

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by vernlee

https://clampdowncomp.com/tech/insta...-model-a-ford/

this is the best I have found , if the pics are a hassle don't worry about it , just fun to see other peoples projects

Hey Ryan ......I must compliment you on the beautiful workmanship that you've exhibited, your ability to envision the engineering principles necessary to make the radius (control) rods articulate as a unit with the rear end housing's gyrations, as well as your obvious ability to compose, substantiate and edit a build document worthy of any automotive news stand publication.

I LIKE T5s, and YOU will, too! I've had a couple of brief exchanges with Dave Falwell of Vintage Metalworks several years ago when we were developing a project consisting of putting a T5 in a '35-'40 Ford...WITH the torque tube. If you have any interest, you can click on the link below for the thread detailing my (our) experience, and possibly some interesting tidbits.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...T5+TORQUE+TUBE

I came-upon YOUR thread, as I just have to take a peek at anything "T5". I have seen most of the Model A T5 'kits' floating-around out there, and while many of them leave some points to be desired, a few of them are downright dangerous in concept, AND in execution. That kit you have is the closest to 'perfection' that I have seen for an "A-bone". The ONLY thing I believe I would have done differently would have been to fabricate new, or to at least re-inforce the original, thin-wall, welded-tube radius rods. Those radius rods were never intended to take the thrust (nor the torque) controlled via that torque tube. If you don't abuse that ride, you'll likely get by with your originals, though. Just wanted to give you a thumb's-up on a very nicely-done project, Sir! I normally hang-out over on the V8 side of the 'Barn. Dick Davidson (DD)

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by G_Don

I sourced a t5 at the carlisle swap meet (well atleast my dad did) and it is an s10 from a 2.5L v6? that is world class and has the 3.76 gearing.

But I have a few questions.
1)Is there any benefit to running a v8 banjo rear over the model A? I'm assuming they're stronger but just how much? Are they even stronger than a Model A rear if you add the third link?
2) With a seriously hopped up banger and t5 overdrive, will that overpower the stock A rear?

I plan on running hydraulic brakes, so I wouldn't have to modify the backing plates on the 35 rear like you would with a model A rear. Maybe I'm just weighing my options out loud, but I'd like to hear some opinions from guys who have done this conversion one way or another. All input is welcome!

Thanks again for all your guys time and help for a novice like me.
Gordy

Hey Gordy....The '35 thru '48 banjo center sections are somewhat more substantial than the "A" rears in that the pinion shafts are far better supported by a front AND a rear bearing. The pinions themselves are stronger too, as the gear portion is integral with the one-piece pinion assembly, rather than that "Morse-like" tapered method of mounting the gear on the pinion shaft on the stock "A" rears.

You SHOULD seriously reconsider employing an additional upper link to control the accelerating and braking torque loads of the rear axle housing. I'd employ a substantial rod which terminates SOLIDLY with the lower radius rods like that seen in the 28th and 30th full-size pictures in Ryan Manson's Model A in the link below. Hope this helps you. DD

https://clampdowncomp.com/tech/insta...-model-a-ford/

[PotvinV8]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Hey Ryan ......I must compliment you on the beautiful workmanship that you've exhibited...

Thanks Dick,

Twenty years in the magazine business must be showing!

The T5 had been a great upgrade!