Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-10-2020, 04:27 PM   #1
shew01
Senior Member
 
shew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roanoke, VA USA
Posts: 542
Question Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Over the weekend, I posted several times in new threads to keep the responses related to the issue at hand for the moment. Thank you for your patience in replying to my other posts. As it turned out, this weekend has been a "crash course" in Model As than I anticipated.

Background information:

(I cannot get a rebuilt ignition cable to read 6 volts on the points. Please skip to "Here is where I'm stuck" if you are not interested in the background information.)

My 1931 Victoria is 6 volts, positive ground.

I was initially replacing a leaking radiator. While having the car apart for that, I started on other related projects, like:

- Cleaning the horn since the wiring had to be removed to get the radiator out of the car (the horn now says "ahooga" instead of just "grunting"--that's one of the big wins so far; hopefully the new radiator will not leak, but I haven't got the car back together enough to test that yet)

- Replacing the water outlet with a unit that mounts a thermostat close to the head http://vintageprecision.com/products...ing/index.html; that seemed to go fine

- Replacing the temperature gauge (which was showing discoloration at the coolant hookup and could probably fail at any time, and the temperature gauge line looked like it was weak from previous bending)

- Replacing the armored ignition cable with the one I recently purchased from Dick Crabtree that he keyed to match my door key; doing this now made sense because the previous owner installed the temperature gauge cable through the junction box along with the armored cable, meaning that I had to take apart the dash anyway to replace the temperature gauge

I originally thought I needed to remove the distributor to remove the ignition cable. (My distributor is stuck, and I ordered a puller and a head nut torque tool from Bratton's earlier today. That story is in a separate thread.) It turns out that you can disconnect the speedometer cable on the bottom of the car to get some slack in the speedometer cable line, remove the ignition switch from the dash plate, and unscrew the armored ignition cable, in place, without removing the distributor. You can install a replacement ignition cable the same way.

Here is where I'm stuck.

- This is where I am stuck at the moment. After installing the rebuilt armored ignition cable, Les Andrews, page 1-106 (i.e., the distributor installation instructions), says, "Turn ON the ignition key and check for 6 volts from the point arm to a ground point." I am NOT getting 6 volts on the points.

- The rebuilt ignition switch from Dick Crabtree seems to work correctly. I unscrewed it from the distributor and left the cable in place in the dash. With the key OFF, 6 volts do not go to the armored cable button end. With the key ON, there are 6 volts on the armored cable button end. When the armored cable is screwed into the distributor, it does not send 6 volts to the points.

- I also tested with an emergency jumper cable from Bratton's (https://www.brattons.com/emergency-i...per-cable.html). With the clip end connected to the junction box, the button end reads 6 volts when not screwed into the distributor. When I screw the emergency jumped cable into the distributor, it does not send 6 volts to the points.

I must be missing something. I'm thinking the issue is in the distributor, but I never removed it from the car. I'm not sure where to look.

All ideas are welcome.
shew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 04:40 PM   #2
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,855
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

The coil is always hot on the Model A and the switch supplies the ground path from the points to the coil. You will have 6V at the movable point when the points are open and the switch on. I think you are good if I'm reading you correctly.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-10-2020, 04:42 PM   #3
Kurt in NJ
Senior Member
 
Kurt in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: on the Littlefield
Posts: 5,156
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Try unscrewing it a turn --- perhaps the lower plate contact is pushed over--- the reproduction ones are thinner metal, bend easy
Kurt in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 04:49 PM   #4
shew01
Senior Member
 
shew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roanoke, VA USA
Posts: 542
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
The coil is always hot on the Model A and the switch supplies the ground path from the points to the coil. You will have 6V at the movable point when the points are open and the switch on. I think you are good if I'm reading you correctly.

I have a business card between the points at the moment. So, during my testing, the points are always open for now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
shew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 04:51 PM   #5
shew01
Senior Member
 
shew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roanoke, VA USA
Posts: 542
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ View Post
Try unscrewing it a turn --- perhaps the lower plate contact is pushed over--- the reproduction ones are thinner metal, bend easy

I tried various rotations, from one turn into the distributor through fully screwed (snug) into the distributor. It doesnít seem to make a difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
shew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 04:52 PM   #6
shew01
Senior Member
 
shew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roanoke, VA USA
Posts: 542
Default Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

I also tried a jumper from the junction box to the dimple in the distributor screw hole (for lack of a better phrase). That did not send 6 volts to the points that are being held open with a business card.
(The wing nuts on the junction box are both reading 6 volts.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
shew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 05:14 PM   #7
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,855
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

xxx

Last edited by Bob C; 05-11-2020 at 10:43 AM.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 05:14 PM   #8
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 5,546
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

There has to something that is either grounding or keeping an open in the distributor.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 05:50 PM   #9
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,855
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Double post
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 07:09 PM   #10
shew01
Senior Member
 
shew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roanoke, VA USA
Posts: 542
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Sadly, the car started and ran fine (except for the radiator leak) before this saga started.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
shew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 07:25 PM   #11
shew01
Senior Member
 
shew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roanoke, VA USA
Posts: 542
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Just to make sure no foreign material is in the distributor, I took the following picture with my endoscope a moment ago. It looks clear to me.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
shew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 07:39 PM   #12
1955cj5
Senior Member
 
1955cj5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,448
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Here is a link to some info that may help.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/adistlowerplate.htm

That site also has lots of excellent Model A information.


.
__________________
Early '29 CCPU that had a 4-speed, but not any more.......in the family since '62

Last edited by 1955cj5; 05-10-2020 at 07:55 PM.
1955cj5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 07:43 PM   #13
Jacksonlll
Senior Member
 
Jacksonlll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC
Posts: 1,426
Send a message via ICQ to Jacksonlll
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

You have an open circuit within the distributor. Take the top plate off and, with an ohm meter, find the break in the circuit. If it was a short, you would get a spark when you connect the emergency cable to something hot.
Jacksonlll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 08:16 PM   #14
The Master Cylinder
Senior Member
 
The Master Cylinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 458
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Sounds to me like the wire from the lower plate is broken/disconnected from the upper plate/points. Pull the upper plate and check the wire.

OR

You have a wireless piece o' junk lower plate that is not making contact to the points.
__________________
The Master Cylinder

Enjoying life at the beach in SoCal...
The Master Cylinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 08:19 PM   #15
larrys40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Charles , Missouri
Posts: 1,775
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Testing is relatively easy if you have a volt ohm meter.
A little understanding first .
The popout cable does two functions :
1. It breaks (opens circuit) the hot 6 volts to the distributor when pushed in.
2. Secondly at the same time it grounds out the hot lead of the points which is part of the theftproof feature . Which is why it is called the theft proof electro lock .

It could be the popoit is having an issue and should be checked first. Remove popout from the distributor. With popout out you should have 6 volts between ground and the end of the popout. You can check this with popout in car but removed from distributor.
If no 6 volts you have an issue with the popout as long as the 6 volts is at he red lead at popout Head . If you have it then push popout switch h in, then you should not have 6vts and with an Ohm meter should have a short between he popout end and the armored cable (ground). If so it is functioning properly.

It is also very probable that when screwing in the popout to the distributor that the lower plate tang shorted to the inner housing or the lower plate to its are loose and allowed the plate to the tab to short . Screwing in the cables can sometime put enough pressure to cause those issues. When rebuilding a distributor I always use a piece of insulating rubber between the housing and lower plate tab so that it doesn’t happen even if someone screws it in too far.

I disagree about the smoke part in a post above as the coil may be charging albeit warming if if that is he case. If either of what I noted above is true you would see reduced voltage at the points .
Use a lot ohm meter and do a little light troubleshooting. I’m confident it is the popout or distributor issue I described.
Larry Shepard

Last edited by larrys40; 05-11-2020 at 10:00 AM.
larrys40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 08:48 PM   #16
shew01
Senior Member
 
shew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Roanoke, VA USA
Posts: 542
Default Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

At this point (no pun intended), the cam screw is stuck. So, I canít get the upper plate off to check.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by shew01; 05-11-2020 at 02:36 PM.
shew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 09:04 PM   #17
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,855
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Larry, correct me if I am wrong. The distributor body should be grounded and the lower plate is screwed to the distributor body and he said he jumpered from the junction box
to the lower plate which should equal some sparks.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 09:24 PM   #18
larrys40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Charles , Missouri
Posts: 1,775
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

Bob, Only if points are closed.... and there shouldn’t be smoke for sure if points are open .Pigtail should be from red side of coil not junction box if you are jumpering..
larrys40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 10:25 PM   #19
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,855
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

You are right Larry, I forgot the part of the lower plate the OP is
talking about is insulated from the rest of the plate, so no smoke or sparks.
I deleted my misinformation.


Last edited by Bob C; 05-11-2020 at 10:44 AM.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2020, 10:27 PM   #20
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,855
Default Re: Cannot Get Rebuilt Ignition Cable to Read 6 Volts on the Points

xxx

Last edited by Bob C; 05-10-2020 at 10:36 PM.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:06 PM.