The Ford Barn

burner31 · 03-20-2018, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Turley

John, there is a very good photo of an original 160-B rear seat area, including the armrest, in the "Restoration Guidelines & Judging Standards", 2016 revisions, page 12-3. The vertical leg of the armrest wood form is truly vertical, and parallel to the rear door post. The photo should give you a very good idea about where it is located. It has been over 25 years since I restored one of this body style and I just can't remember exactly how the arm rest is attached to the body.

If the vertical leg of the arm rest is "truly vertical, and parallel to the rear door post" that means I have mine install incorrectly and will have to revisit my installation of them.
Since I will be taking that area apart to do some interior panel work, this would be a good time to make things right.
Thank you Don for the insight.

JohnB15632 · 03-20-2018, 10:44 AM

OK, call me stupid, I never got the update to the Model A restoration Guidelines & Judging Standards.

Worse yet, I can not locate where I can get this update.

So, would someone help me locate where I can purchase the 2016 updates?

Thanks,

Bob C · 03-20-2018, 11:07 AM

Here. https://mafca.com/cart/index.php?productID=235
Or here. http://model-a-ford.org/products-pag...se-revision-4/

Bob

burner31 · 03-20-2018, 11:39 AM

If only we could see the pictures without the $30 entry fee

JohnB15632 · 03-20-2018, 03:32 PM

I sure hope that I did not just waste $30.00.

Don Turley · 03-20-2018, 06:36 PM

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Here is a "part" of that photo, showing the armrest.
Best that I can remember, the armrest attaches to the upholstery panel before installing the upholstery panel to the body. Then, the rear end of the armrest should have a screw that goes through the armrest and upholstery panel and attaches it to an internal body support or bracket. Once the seat backrest is installed, the back end of the armrest and that screw will be hidden by the seat. As I said previously, it has been over 25 years since I did this, so my memory about this detail may be incorrect.

JohnB15632 · 03-20-2018, 08:11 PM

Oh My Does this open a can of worms for me.

How is that metal strap, the is to be connected to the front of the arm rest, now behind the board that the arm rest now rests against, connected to both the arm rest and the window mechanism plate?

It seems like a physical impossibility.

What am I missing?

Thanks,

burner31 · 03-21-2018, 08:36 AM

You and I both JohnB,
Not only am I to far forward with my arm, the back of the arm rest is way to high.
This means my mounting is is way, way off the mark.
This is going to take some thinking.

burner31 · 03-21-2018, 08:58 AM

Let's reverse engineer this some...
If the armrest attaches to the upholstery panel, and is secured with screws from the backside...what is the strap for? Why would it be needed?
I'm making my own upholstery panels, so I'm going to do some experimenting.
Think I'll start a new thread and ask about the upholstery panels, with the measurements of panels and location of screw holes and openings it would be much easier to figure this all out.

JohnB15632 · 03-21-2018, 09:11 AM

As I see it from the picture sent by Don Turley (a few posts back), it now appears the there is the wood arm support that rests against an upolstered panel. The metal strip, screwed thru the panel, into the front of the arm rest would tend to hold the wood arm rest tight to the panel.

How ever, in my opinion, that metal strap is not enough backing to keep the arm rest in position once weight and forces are placed upon it.

I, myself, am going to look into a thin 18 - 22 gauge place to put behind the upholstered panel. This would spread the forces out some and prevent the metal strip from tearing through.

That is unless someone can tell me how to fasten the metal strap to the upholstered panel and the window mechanism mounting plate.

Color me confused.

burner31 · 03-21-2018, 09:21 AM

My strap is not long enough to go between the two screws on the back of the armrest, there are only two screw holes, and the arm rests are original.
But I like your idea of a longer, stronger strap on the back for added support.
However this turns out I think I'm going to incorporate that into this area.

Don Turley · 03-21-2018, 09:38 PM

tmiller6, who made the first response to your inquiry, probably has the answer, if you can get him to clarify his statement. I did not quite understand how the strap attaches to the window riser panel. He mentioned "D" nuts, but I don't see any on John's photos.

Seems like the bottom end of the strap could be attached on the back side of the upholstery panel, at the front end of the armrest. Then, the top end of the strap would have to be attached to the metal panel. The upholstery panel could be tilted inboard, towards the center of the car, enough to attach the top end of the strap, that is, if there is a place to attach it. Once the top end of the strap is attached to the metal panel, then the upholstery panel can be pressed against the metal panel and install the quarter window molding and the garnish molding to hold the upholstery panel in place. Just my thoughts. This would be easier to figure out if I had one to look at.

03-20-2018, 10:44 AM	#22
JohnB15632 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Export, PA (Outside of Pittsburgh) Posts: 520	Re: 31 Town Sedan Rear Seat Armrest Installation OK, call me stupid, I never got the update to the Model A restoration Guidelines & Judging Standards. Worse yet, I can not locate where I can get this update. So, would someone help me locate where I can purchase the 2016 updates? Thanks,

03-20-2018, 11:07 AM	#23
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,751	Re: 31 Town Sedan Rear Seat Armrest Installation Here. https://mafca.com/cart/index.php?productID=235 Or here. http://model-a-ford.org/products-pag...se-revision-4/ Bob

03-20-2018, 11:39 AM	#24
burner31 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Shawnee, Ok Posts: 3,471	Re: 31 Town Sedan Rear Seat Armrest Installation If only we could see the pictures without the $30 entry fee __________________ Keith Shawnee OK '31 SW 160-B

03-20-2018, 03:32 PM	#25
JohnB15632 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Export, PA (Outside of Pittsburgh) Posts: 520	Re: 31 Town Sedan Rear Seat Armrest Installation I sure hope that I did not just waste $30.00.

03-20-2018, 08:11 PM	#27
JohnB15632 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Export, PA (Outside of Pittsburgh) Posts: 520	Re: 31 Town Sedan Rear Seat Armrest Installation Oh My Does this open a can of worms for me. How is that metal strap, the is to be connected to the front of the arm rest, now behind the board that the arm rest now rests against, connected to both the arm rest and the window mechanism plate? It seems like a physical impossibility. What am I missing? Thanks,

03-21-2018, 08:36 AM	#28
burner31 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Shawnee, Ok Posts: 3,471	Re: 31 Town Sedan Rear Seat Armrest Installation You and I both JohnB, Not only am I to far forward with my arm, the back of the arm rest is way to high. This means my mounting is is way, way off the mark. This is going to take some thinking. __________________ Keith Shawnee OK '31 SW 160-B

03-21-2018, 08:58 AM	#29
burner31 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Shawnee, Ok Posts: 3,471	Re: 31 Town Sedan Rear Seat Armrest Installation Let's reverse engineer this some... If the armrest attaches to the upholstery panel, and is secured with screws from the backside...what is the strap for? Why would it be needed? I'm making my own upholstery panels, so I'm going to do some experimenting. Think I'll start a new thread and ask about the upholstery panels, with the measurements of panels and location of screw holes and openings it would be much easier to figure this all out. __________________ Keith Shawnee OK '31 SW 160-B

03-21-2018, 09:11 AM	#30
JohnB15632 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Export, PA (Outside of Pittsburgh) Posts: 520	Re: 31 Town Sedan Rear Seat Armrest Installation As I see it from the picture sent by Don Turley (a few posts back), it now appears the there is the wood arm support that rests against an upolstered panel. The metal strip, screwed thru the panel, into the front of the arm rest would tend to hold the wood arm rest tight to the panel. How ever, in my opinion, that metal strap is not enough backing to keep the arm rest in position once weight and forces are placed upon it. I, myself, am going to look into a thin 18 - 22 gauge place to put behind the upholstered panel. This would spread the forces out some and prevent the metal strip from tearing through. That is unless someone can tell me how to fasten the metal strap to the upholstered panel and the window mechanism mounting plate. Color me confused.

03-21-2018, 09:21 AM	#31
burner31 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Shawnee, Ok Posts: 3,471	Re: 31 Town Sedan Rear Seat Armrest Installation My strap is not long enough to go between the two screws on the back of the armrest, there are only two screw holes, and the arm rests are original. But I like your idea of a longer, stronger strap on the back for added support. However this turns out I think I'm going to incorporate that into this area. __________________ Keith Shawnee OK '31 SW 160-B

03-21-2018, 09:38 PM	#32
Don Turley Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: GA 30809 Posts: 629	Re: 31 Town Sedan Rear Seat Armrest Installation tmiller6, who made the first response to your inquiry, probably has the answer, if you can get him to clarify his statement. I did not quite understand how the strap attaches to the window riser panel. He mentioned "D" nuts, but I don't see any on John's photos. Seems like the bottom end of the strap could be attached on the back side of the upholstery panel, at the front end of the armrest. Then, the top end of the strap would have to be attached to the metal panel. The upholstery panel could be tilted inboard, towards the center of the car, enough to attach the top end of the strap, that is, if there is a place to attach it. Once the top end of the strap is attached to the metal panel, then the upholstery panel can be pressed against the metal panel and install the quarter window molding and the garnish molding to hold the upholstery panel in place. Just my thoughts. This would be easier to figure out if I had one to look at.