Brake floaters

[michael a]

How many of you are using the flat head Ted kit and how do you like it did you notice a great deal in your braking power

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[The Master Cylinder]

I had just installed new brakes including new cast iron drums. Everything was new or rebuilt down to replacing the return springs. I was really happy with the way it stopped.

Then after about three months after installing the brakes I won a complete set of Flat Head Teds floaters. Since I got them for the price of a raffle ticket I decided to "try" them. If I didn't like them i could always remove them since you do not have to modify the stock system to install.

I must say I am impressed. The car REALLY stops good now. The pedal feels similar to power brakes.

Just make sure the rest of your system is in good shape because the FHTs kit isn't designed to cure defective brakes.

[wmws]

I agree with what Master Cylinder said. I only have them on the front along with cast iron drums. That combination makes a huge difference. The back brakes I don't feel really need them. I have the brakes adjusted so most of the braking is on the front. The backs will lock up easily enough without added power.

[roy green coupe]

I feel i wasted a lot of time messing with the rears. I would just do the fronts if i were to do it again.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by roy green coupe

I feel i wasted a lot of time messing with the rears. I would just do the fronts if i were to do it again.

Yes, the rears are already floating. Generally speaking, if everything was new in the front and the FHT added later made a huge improvement, then the shoes were not properly centered.

[Bob Bidonde]

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I have Ted's floaters on all of my brakes, and the brake operation is way superior to the stock brakes. In my opinion, there ought to be law requiring Flat Head Ted's brake floaters.

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Generally speaking, if everything was new in the front and the FHT added later made a huge improvement, then the shoes were not properly centered.

I think it has to do more with the "Self Energizing Concept" as described in the article in Model A Times.

My shoes were all arced and centered properly.

[redmodelt]

We have been using the floaters that Snyders sells. No complaints from the owners cars we have installed them on.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/brake-floater-kit

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

We have been using the floaters that Snyders sells. No complaints from the owners cars we have installed them on.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/brake-floater-kit

On the car I'm putting together at the moment, I modified original style components to get those floaters and I'm putting the longer levers from the back on the front. I'm hoping that will give me a better balance between front and back. Everything is new including CI drums.

[Jim M]

I have them installed and quite honestly I have so many other problems with my brakes can't really comment on them. But I do have a question as I have been reading a lot about brakes. How many of you successful installs have taken off the top springs and does that make a significant difference. Thanks!!

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder

I must say I am impressed. The car REALLY stops good now. The pedal feels similar to power brakes.

Just make sure the rest of your system is in good shape because the FHTs kit isn't designed to cure defective brakes.

X2. Night and day difference.

Be sure to adjust them per FH Ted's instructions which puts the majority of the braking on the front wheels like all post Model A cars.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder

I think it has to do more with the "Self Energizing Concept" as described in the article in Model A Times.

My shoes were all arced and centered properly.

When you study the workings of the FH set-up, you have the Wedge Adjusting Wedge head that is now loose in the upper portion of the brake housing (backing) plate. So two things happens when the brakes are applied in that the shoes rotate limited mainly by the head of the adjusting wedge hitting the inside of the brake housing plate. The bottom brake operating wedge has clearance built around the wedge stud, so by theory the front shoe is already pushing against (energizing) the rear shoe. Where this theory goes out the window is when the shoes are not within the centerline of the drum braking surface as the lining only engages in a small contact area.


This topic has been discussed for years upon years here and in other venues, and the general consensus from advocates and opponents alike has always been that FH Ted floaters do nothing for poor brakes anyway, ...and no one can scientifically prove that one provides better stopping ability over the other (-if you have an idea I would be glad to entertain that suggestion for an upcoming workshop), so it has always seemed to boil down to people only believe what seems believable to them.


Oh, and one other point that has always been discussed is that self-energizing typically means that once you have created a force, then you can release the force and the object will remain in positive motion. In the case of the FH brake modification, it has been proven that as soon as you release the force, the positive braking force ceases. Since that is the case, would you not agree they really are not "self-energizing"?

Originally Posted by Jim M

I have them installed and quite honestly I have so many other problems with my brakes can't really comment on them. But I do have a question as I have been reading a lot about brakes. How many of you successful installs have taken off the top springs and does that make a significant difference. Thanks!!

It makes a big difference on pedal pressure effort needed, ...which a softer pedal is why some like them. Not so good for shoe lining to drum drag though.

[wmws]

Can we all agree that even without the Flat Head Ted system that the rear shoe is self energizing. If we can agree with that, then we should agree that with the Flat Head Ted system the front shoe is also self energizing. Two self energizing shoes being better that one hence the feeling of power brakes. In the old days when race cars and motorcycles had drum brakes double leading shoes were very common. The Flat Head Ted system is a way of getting some of the effect of a double leading shoe system without all the engineering that goes into a double leading shoe system.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by wmws

Can we all agree that even without the Flat Head Ted system that the rear shoe is self energizing. If we can agree with that, then we should agree that with the Flat Head Ted system the front shoe is also self energizing. Two self energizing shoes being better that one hence the feeling of power brakes. In the old days when race cars and motorcycles had drum brakes double leading shoes were very common. The Flat Head Ted system is a way of getting some of the effect of a double leading shoe system without all the engineering that goes into a double leading shoe system.

Ummm, I don't believe I could not agree to that. It is self-centering but not self-energizing.

[burner31]

I did the front...I like them.

[wmws]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Ummm, I don't believe I could not agree to that. It is self-centering but not self-energizing.

IMHO it is both self centering and self energizing. Being a mechanic I'm sure you understand the physics of a leading shoe vs a trailing shoe. So why would not a double leading shoe not be better than just one leading shoe.
And the reason that when you take your foot off the brake it does not keep self energizing is because the springs pull the shoe back away from the drum.

[updraught]

Here's a diagram.



http://constructionmanuals.tpub.com/...zation-256.htm