Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-23-2018, 04:29 PM   #21
Kurt in NJ
Senior Member
 
Kurt in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: on the Littlefield
Posts: 6,140
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

If you don't replace the crankshaft gear it will eat the new camshaft gear again
Kurt in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 04:45 PM   #22
WHN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Connecticut Shoreline
Posts: 1,815
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Looks like a couple of engines that I have had.

Just for conversation. Engine looks really dirty and we know timing gear is shoot. Without knowing what the knock sounds like. If it were mine. I would put in a new timing gear. Clean everything, including screen on oil pump. Than put it back together. Put in 4 1/2 quarts of 20-50 HD motor oil and one 16 oz blue bottle of STP. Five quarts needed because you removed oil pan. Fresh gas with MMO. Oil the distributor. Grease the throw out bearing. Grease everything. Check steering box, transmission, and rear end. Don’t forget u joint (I use John Deere Cornhead grease) also in steering box.

If your lucky, after running for awhile, it will be fine. If not, than we all have to talk again.

Change oil again after a couple hundred miles. Good luck. Enjoy.

As I said before. Car looks good. 80 year old owner, might have not seen maintenance it needed for a few years. Doesn’t mean the old owner did not love car.
WHN is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 03-23-2018, 06:54 PM   #23
Garagekulture13
Senior Member
 
Garagekulture13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 179
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHN View Post
Looks like a couple of engines that I have had.

Just for conversation. Engine looks really dirty and we know timing gear is shoot. Without knowing what the knock sounds like. If it were mine. I would put in a new timing gear. Clean everything, including screen on oil pump. Than put it back together. Put in 4 1/2 quarts of 20-50 HD motor oil and one 16 oz blue bottle of STP. Five quarts needed because you removed oil pan. Fresh gas with MMO. Oil the distributor. Grease the throw out bearing. Grease everything. Check steering box, transmission, and rear end. Don’t forget u joint (I use John Deere Cornhead grease) also in steering box.

If your lucky, after running for awhile, it will be fine. If not, than we all have to talk again.

Change oil again after a couple hundred miles. Good luck. Enjoy.

As I said before. Car looks good. 80 year old owner, might have not seen maintenance it needed for a few years. Doesn’t mean the old owner did not love car.
Yes. This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Garagekulture13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 07:39 PM   #24
gustafson
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 128
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

engine was run with non-detergent oil to have that kind of sludge all over
gustafson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 11:22 PM   #25
PC/SR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 1,276
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Agree with Farrell in Vancover. The engine is old, dirty and the knock is substantial. You can dick around with various things piecemeal for a long time trying one thing at a time. My personal opinion is that the noise is not coming from a fibre camshaft gear, although it may well need to be replaced, or not, depending on measurements. The photos are inconclusive. The fibre gears rarely make noise like that. Tear it down and do it right. The car is really good looking and deserves a good engine.
PC/SR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 11:36 PM   #26
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
engine was run with non-detergent oil to have that kind of sludge all over


I agree.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2018, 01:52 AM   #27
TerryH
Senior Member
 
TerryH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fountain Valley, Calif.
Posts: 937
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

A couple of years ago my A was making a faint knocking type of noise that no one could isolate....using stethoscope or wood dowels. It ran fine, but got slightly worse over time. Then, one day, I decided to take it to our local Model A mechanic, but on the way, it suddenly quite running. Had it towed via AAA to his garage.....a couple of hours later we determined the fiber timing gear had stripped out, and replaced it with a new laminated one. Noise was gone; in this case it was a fiber timing gear going bad....yours sounds much worse, so may well be something else, but those gears need replacing in any event.
TerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2018, 07:03 AM   #28
WHN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Connecticut Shoreline
Posts: 1,815
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Everyone, including me, has our own idea of what could be going on with your engine.

As I mentioned to you earlier. I have had a couple of cars that looked the same way, and sounded very much like yours.

Many years ago we pulled a Model A out of a barn that it had been sitting in for over 35 years. When we got it running it was making all kinds of different sounds. We pulled pan and it looked like yours, timings gear was also shoot.

We rebuilt oil pump, replaced timing gear, cleaned oil pan, put back together. Started engine using oil I mentioned in earlier post. It ran great, but still had a couple of light knock type sounds. Added rebuilt distributor and leakless water pump. Engine now ran right. The little valve noise it had went away after some driving with the MMO in gas and the high detergent motor oil doing its job.

It’s 40 years later, and that same engine is still running strong. No noise, great compression, no knocks or smoke.

If you rebuild you still are going to need a good distributor and water pump. Plus other things.

If it isn’t broken, don’t fix it. What will it cost you? Gaskets and a timing gear that you need anyway.

Your car looks like it was well cared for. I would take a chance. Good luck. Enjoy.
WHN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2018, 09:28 AM   #29
Lona
Senior Member
 
Lona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Gloucester, Va
Posts: 464
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Did you run it with the fan belt off to make sure the noise is not coming from the fan, water pump or generator and their pulleys? Cracked fan blades will make a lot of noise when engine is running.

Glen
__________________
'31 Model A Deluxe Roadster
'31 Chrysler Model 70 Sedan
'88 Pontiac Fiero GT
'36 Auburn Boattail Speedster replica
Lona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2018, 09:31 AM   #30
Lona
Senior Member
 
Lona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Gloucester, Va
Posts: 464
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Re: my above post regarding cracked fan blade. Inspect it carefully before you run the engine to look for cracks near the hub. You don't want to be anywhere near a blade when it lets loose.

Glen
__________________
'31 Model A Deluxe Roadster
'31 Chrysler Model 70 Sedan
'88 Pontiac Fiero GT
'36 Auburn Boattail Speedster replica
Lona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2018, 10:53 AM   #31
Garagekulture13
Senior Member
 
Garagekulture13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 179
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lona View Post
Did you run it with the fan belt off to make sure the noise is not coming from the fan, water pump or generator and their pulleys? Cracked fan blades will make a lot of noise when engine is running.

Glen
Yes I did. Knock still there.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Garagekulture13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2018, 11:19 AM   #32
Dick M
Senior Member
 
Dick M's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ukiah, CA
Posts: 477
Send a message via Yahoo to Dick M
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

I agree with WHN. Clean out the pan and oil pump screen. Replace the timing gear. Start it up and see what happens. I had 2 fiber timing gears wear out and create a knock. I replaced the second fiber timing gear with an aluminum timing gear. No more problems..
Dick M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2018, 11:20 AM   #33
Railcarmover
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,262
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Service your main and rod bearings..looks like there are shims on the rods but couldn't tell if the mains have any shims from the picture.No main bearing shims? she's on her last go round,time to start looking for a good babbit man..
Railcarmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2018, 06:07 PM   #34
Chuck Sea/Tac
Senior Member
 
Chuck Sea/Tac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma
Posts: 2,351
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

How did you run it with the valve cover off?? If your oil pump was pumping properly ( dirty screen) then all your oil would be on the floor.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0E82FBEF-4F61-4833-836B-D7574A292B61.jpg (53.7 KB, 69 views)
Chuck Sea/Tac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2018, 09:30 PM   #35
Railcarmover
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,262
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Reckon you are going deeper than a timing gear and a clean up..there are some suspicious looking items on your lower end..2,3 and 4 rods look newer than 1..the cylinder walls are badly glazed...center main bearing left bolt is turned,wonder if it has a cotter pin or if its loose The front main bearing appears to have no shims at all. Got any history on this engine?
Railcarmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2018, 09:41 PM   #36
noyo55
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 75
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Back when I was in college my A developed a knock. After pulling it down my timing gear was badly worn--replaced it knock went away. Good chance that yours is the problem
noyo55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2018, 07:17 AM   #37
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Largo Florida
Posts: 7,225
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

To add, I too would check/adjust the crank bearings [ and check/adjust oil pump clearances] as long as the base is off for the cleaning.

I like to set bearings at .0015" [ the rear even a bit tighten if I can]
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2018, 06:24 PM   #38
PatrickTA
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 37
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Honestly my opinion would to pull the motor and go for a rebuild once and for all. Even if you fix the knock, looks like that motor doesn't have much life left. and be careful if you do drop the mains/rods caps. ive had a few were the Babbitt basically fell apart soon as i dropped it.
Patsrestoration.com
PatrickTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2018, 09:18 PM   #39
Wick
Senior Member
 
Wick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gwynn's Island Va
Posts: 1,380
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

A worn out Cam Button (spring) will make one knock.
Wick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2018, 10:55 AM   #40
Garagekulture13
Senior Member
 
Garagekulture13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 179
Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Well I got this far today. I hope this is evidence this is my knock. Also that's my son at the end. He had to get in there and help.

https://youtu.be/lDI6grnm-Z0

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Garagekulture13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:34 AM.