The Ford Barn

jhowes · 09-17-2017, 07:40 AM

Years ago i made a tool for removal of the tie-rod ends. Looks like a big screwdriver end welded to a socket. The problem was that it bent rather easily in use. I therefore bought one that was 1/2 inch drive and it has worked well. Now i am trying to remove a similar type end on a shock arm on my willys so i have cut down the original one to fit the smaller shock arm but i am still concerned about the tool bending. Will heating to near red and clenching in oil harden it? Or is water better? Or am i wrong in trying either method of making it not bend? I know that there are barners on here that know this kind of stuff. Thanks in advance. Jack

Rex_A_Lott · 09-17-2017, 07:58 AM

You are going to get different opinions, so here's mine:
The trouble with hardening a tool like that is you make it brittle, and it will break more easily, instead of bending. As far as being able to harden it, its going to depend on how much carbon it has in it to start with. I'm no metallurgist, I know just enough to be dangerous.
I would use the heat on the part itself to get it loose. Good Luck

kimlinh · 09-17-2017, 08:20 AM

Different steels harden differently. Some are water hardened (you probably don't have that) some are air hardened ( you probably don't have that ether). Some are oil hardened ( this is most likely what you have). some will only case harden and some will not harden well with any method. The temperature you heat it to is important. Also you must anneal it or draw it down after you harden it or it will be brittle and break easily. The draw temperature is also important. You are probably better off letting someone who knows how to do this handle it. If you have any friends that are tool makers, they will know how to do it.

fixitphil · 09-17-2017, 08:43 AM

Jack, you can buy a tool that will work at a Lowes or any hardware, probably. This tool is used too install the big "non-reversing" screws for security screen door installations. Phil

katy · 09-17-2017, 10:05 AM

Quote:

i have cut down the original one to fit the smaller shock arm but i am still concerned about the tool bending.

Try it, it may not bend. If it does, what have you lost?
Drag link sockets come in different sizes, shop around, you may find the size you need.

Railcarmover · 09-17-2017, 10:30 AM

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If you want to make your own tools and want to use tool quality steel look no further than the cam from a rear brake assembly..Rouge quality tool grade steel..

Synchro909 · 09-17-2017, 06:55 PM

From what I've learned, heating and quenching in oil might give you a THIN layer of case hardening but it will not affect the strength of the metal deeper down. Expect no more than about 0.015" of hardening.

Terry, NJ · 09-17-2017, 07:18 PM

As someone said, There are steels that are air hardening, water Hardening and oil hardening. Oil is the most common and after that, water. For instance a file is water (Brine) hardening. f you had an old file you wanted to make something out of, you'd have to anneal it first, The when the part is made, you can re-harden it by heating and quenching it in a bucket of brine. Hold the part! Don't drop it in! It will talk to you! If you think it's going to crack, it probably is, pull it out of the brine! Then after 10-15 seconds, plunge it back in.
Then again, it may be Cold or Hot Rolled Steel and can't be hardened normally. If it's possible, try forging the part. Then Case harden the part. A good product for case hardening is "Casenit". Simply heat the parted hot. Then plunge in to the Casenit powder till you get a good covering. Then heat the part to a yellow, almost white hot. Let the steel absorb the carbon for a while. Then quench into cold water, you should hear a loud pop. That means it worked. You've done all you can do! For steel I identification, If you have a grinder, try several steels on it to see the spark pattern. Files are the most distinctive with a fine, feathery spark. Other steel will have a long heavier spark. Good luck!
Terry

40 Deluxe · 09-17-2017, 09:45 PM

If your factory made socket (even ground down) feels like it will break, your shock arm is rusted tight. Heat it red, let it cool and spray with real penetrating oil like PB Blaster (don't waste time with worthless WD-40). If still won't budge, heat the outer edge red again and try turning while hot. Check ebay for sockets, too.

09-17-2017, 07:40 AM	#1
jhowes Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: upstate NY near Mass border Posts: 789	Metal hardening Years ago i made a tool for removal of the tie-rod ends. Looks like a big screwdriver end welded to a socket. The problem was that it bent rather easily in use. I therefore bought one that was 1/2 inch drive and it has worked well. Now i am trying to remove a similar type end on a shock arm on my willys so i have cut down the original one to fit the smaller shock arm but i am still concerned about the tool bending. Will heating to near red and clenching in oil harden it? Or is water better? Or am i wrong in trying either method of making it not bend? I know that there are barners on here that know this kind of stuff. Thanks in advance. Jack

09-17-2017, 07:58 AM	#2
Rex_A_Lott Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Upstate South Carolina Posts: 794	Re: Metal hardening You are going to get different opinions, so here's mine: The trouble with hardening a tool like that is you make it brittle, and it will break more easily, instead of bending. As far as being able to harden it, its going to depend on how much carbon it has in it to start with. I'm no metallurgist, I know just enough to be dangerous. I would use the heat on the part itself to get it loose. Good Luck

09-17-2017, 08:20 AM	#3
kimlinh Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Middlebury,Connecticut Posts: 100	Re: Metal hardening Different steels harden differently. Some are water hardened (you probably don't have that) some are air hardened ( you probably don't have that ether). Some are oil hardened ( this is most likely what you have). some will only case harden and some will not harden well with any method. The temperature you heat it to is important. Also you must anneal it or draw it down after you harden it or it will be brittle and break easily. The draw temperature is also important. You are probably better off letting someone who knows how to do this handle it. If you have any friends that are tool makers, they will know how to do it.

09-17-2017, 08:43 AM	#4
fixitphil Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 83	Re: Metal hardening Jack, you can buy a tool that will work at a Lowes or any hardware, probably. This tool is used too install the big "non-reversing" screws for security screen door installations. Phil __________________ FixitPhil

09-17-2017, 10:30 AM	#6
Railcarmover BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,262	Re: Metal hardening Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) If you want to make your own tools and want to use tool quality steel look no further than the cam from a rear brake assembly..Rouge quality tool grade steel..

09-17-2017, 06:55 PM	#7
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Metal hardening From what I've learned, heating and quenching in oil might give you a THIN layer of case hardening but it will not affect the strength of the metal deeper down. Expect no more than about 0.015" of hardening. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

09-17-2017, 07:18 PM	#8
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: Metal hardening As someone said, There are steels that are air hardening, water Hardening and oil hardening. Oil is the most common and after that, water. For instance a file is water (Brine) hardening. f you had an old file you wanted to make something out of, you'd have to anneal it first, The when the part is made, you can re-harden it by heating and quenching it in a bucket of brine. Hold the part! Don't drop it in! It will talk to you! If you think it's going to crack, it probably is, pull it out of the brine! Then after 10-15 seconds, plunge it back in. Then again, it may be Cold or Hot Rolled Steel and can't be hardened normally. If it's possible, try forging the part. Then Case harden the part. A good product for case hardening is "Casenit". Simply heat the parted hot. Then plunge in to the Casenit powder till you get a good covering. Then heat the part to a yellow, almost white hot. Let the steel absorb the carbon for a while. Then quench into cold water, you should hear a loud pop. That means it worked. You've done all you can do! For steel I identification, If you have a grinder, try several steels on it to see the spark pattern. Files are the most distinctive with a fine, feathery spark. Other steel will have a long heavier spark. Good luck! Terry

09-17-2017, 09:45 PM	#9
40 Deluxe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: now Kuna, Idaho Posts: 3,778	Re: Metal hardening If your factory made socket (even ground down) feels like it will break, your shock arm is rusted tight. Heat it red, let it cool and spray with real penetrating oil like PB Blaster (don't waste time with worthless WD-40). If still won't budge, heat the outer edge red again and try turning while hot. Check ebay for sockets, too.