Current Thoughts on SoCal Engine Builders

[klawockvet]

Looking for references for reputable builders in Southern California who build fully balanced touring motors with inserts instead of babbitt.

[Gil Sissons]

If you would like to pm me I would be happy to share my experience with
one of the well known SoCal Model A engine builders.
Not comfortable posting on line.
Gil NoCal

[CarlLaFong]

never mind

[CWPASADENA]

If you would like to PM me, I will recommend who NOT to go to here in So Cal.

[CarlG]

If I can go to Texas for an engine, surely you could.

I will join others in who NOT to go to in SoCal

[waxhead]

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Could someone please PM me this info on who not to go to??Thanks in advance

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by waxhead

Could someone please PM me this info on who not to go to??Thanks in advance

P.M. sent. And I agree with Carl and the others.

[webb452]

I have no problem saying they are talking about H & H. If you have a running H & H engine it leaks oil like crazy. If you have a running H & H engine it won't be running long. Their quality control and attention to detail is nonexistent. And on top of everything else they will lie to you.

Stay away from them!!!!

[klawockvet]

I actually can go anywhere in the world, but since I have the car in the California desert it would be easiest to take it to a shop that does quality work on Model A engines with balanced rotating assemblies and counter balanced cranks with insert bearings. I really didn't mean to start another bashing session on H&H. When I posted an inquiry years ago about H&H I was deluged with people who had bad experiences. That resulted in my going elsewhere. The engine I got elsewhere has made about 6K miles and is coming apart. I am not going to reveal who I got that motor from as I believe he does good work and I've lived long enough to know that if has wheels or tits it can have a come apart at any moment. However, I drive this car a lot and I don't have time to get a flathead in it yet, so I need to get it quickly back on the road. So, I will expand the question to include South and Central California looking for good reviews on a shop that will work on my current engine. Since I believe my crankshaft bearings are the problem I am going to definitely go with inserts and a counterbalanced crank. Please either post or PM with any positive reviews. Thanks,

[ursus]

I see more mention here of that SoCal outfit that a friend referred to as Hatchet & Hammer.

[Railcarmover]

So basically you guys own cars but don't do your own work..that's cool, if you have the benjamins why not use them...that being said why destroy a cat who's trying to make a buck servicing the hobby?.caveat emptor is latin for 'let the buyer beware'...the key word in this line is buyer....whoever the tribe chooses to condemn is unable to defend themselves, whether right or wrong..

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by klawockvet

I actually can go anywhere in the world, but since I have the car in the California desert it would be easiest to take it to a shop that does quality work on Model A engines with balanced rotating assemblies and counter balanced cranks with insert bearings. I really didn't mean to start another bashing session on H&H. When I posted an inquiry years ago about H&H I was deluged with people who had bad experiences. That resulted in my going elsewhere. The engine I got elsewhere has made about 6K miles and is coming apart. I am not going to reveal who I got that motor from as I believe he does good work and I've lived long enough to know that if has wheels or tits it can have a come apart at any moment. However, I drive this car a lot and I don't have time to get a flathead in it yet, so I need to get it quickly back on the road. So, I will expand the question to include South and Central California looking for good reviews on a shop that will work on my current engine. Since I believe my crankshaft bearings are the problem I am going to definitely go with inserts and a counterbalanced crank. Please either post or PM with any positive reviews. Thanks,

Have you heard about Turlock Machine? I think that is the name of the company. Joe Silvil, I think his name is. I have heard a lot of good info on him. He is located in Turlock and I have no affiliation with him. Just passing this along. Just my 2 1/2 cents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meVhdz10RRc

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by zzlegend

Have you heard about Turlock Machine? I think that is the name of the company. Joe Silvil, I think his name is. I have heard a lot of good info on him. He is located in Turlock and I have no affiliation with him. Just passing this along. Just my 2 1/2 cents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meVhdz10RRc

[email protected]...

[SSsssteamer]

I have bought a couple of rebuilt engine from H & H in La Crescenta located near Pasadena. I have been able to pick up an engine with in 30 days of placing my order. The touring engines have all modern innards, and they have quite a bit more torque than the original model A Ford engine. I was happy with their pricing too. The first engine I purchased was a long block, and the second engine I purchased was a short block. Neither one of them leak any oil. I have about 6 K miles on the first engine and about 500 miles on the second engine. The engine balance on the second engine was better than what was done on the first engine. I still am a happy camper, and I would purchase another rebuilt engine from them if needed. I once had a model B engine rebuilt by a reputable engine re-builder and it took over two years before he finished it. Anymore, I am getting too old to have to wait that long for an engine rebuild.

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by SSsssteamer

I have bought a couple of rebuilt engine from H & H in La Crescenta located in Pasadena.

La Cresenta is NOT in Pasadena. It is a completely separate city 8 miles Northwest of Pasadena.

[denniskliesen]

It would be nice to have confidence is a rebuilder that is local where I could have drove to and drop off my engine, but the confidence just wasn't there plus I didn't want to have to wait. I have found a few other rebuilders mentioned recently, but they either are not able to give a lead time, or they have never done a Model A engine but are willing to try. One of them specializes in high end antique cars. To my understanding AER. Antique Engine Rebuilders rebuilt Model T engines in the past, not sure about other makes and years, but they now only rebuild Model A engines, so that gave me a big vote of confidence. Back to the rebuilder in Southern California that gets near all the mention, I had a member of a local club tell me H&H does alright, they might have a problem with one out of thirty well thank you for the information but I'm not going to take the chance of not being that one of thirty. Back to AER, they have competitive and reasonable rates, honest and when you get a quote, they stick to it. They have shipping rates with FedEx nobody can beat. You build your own crate from plans they give on their website, and their lead time is reasonable, at least for me as it gave me time to get other repairs needed on my car such as steering and front suspension. I also had all of my parts that I put back on cleaned up and ready to go to build from a short block. Bert's in Denver would have been my second choice if their lead time and shipping would have been better. I know this might be off the original question asking who to go in SoCal, but it was well worth sending mine to AER.

[Phil Brown]

[QUOTE=SSsssteamer;1551239]I have bought a couple of rebuilt engine from H & H in La Crescenta

I'am with SSsssteamer here on this one, Got two of there touring rebuilds and have been very happy with them so far (one's fairly new with lower mileage and the other is at 5000+ miles). They delivered on time good running engines that don't leak or burn oil and make good power for a reasonable price.
I would not be afraid to use them a third time.

[Kahuna]

Phil Brown
What is a reasonable price in your opinion?
Thanks
Jim

[glenn in camino]

All you need is some reputable guy to do the babbit and line boring. If you have Les Andrew's book, and a good machine shop, you can do the rest yourself. A model A engine is not complicated, They're very simple. I've done 3 with good results. Go for it!

[Phil Brown]

Originally Posted by Kahuna

Phil Brown
What is a reasonable price in your opinion?
Thanks
Jim

With the light flywheel / pressure plate & Thomas head it was just shy of $4000 a few years back. The last motor was the same except we put the Winfield head on it and it was a little over the $4000
Both started as there touring short block and we got the same block back both times because they go in there #'s matching frames

[Chris Haynes]

As my fellow club members say about H&H, "What good is their warranty if you have to keep using it?"

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good afternoon all...Just a thought. Our engines are really old and have been rebuilt a number of times. Regardless of the engine rebuilder, each and every one will have a problem now and again. Some are caused by the user and some by the builder. The key is how the problem is handled. I know guys who drive their cars with respect and have little to no trouble and others who beat the hell out of them and wonder why theirs don't run well...I would suggest that if you need an engine, make arrangements for a complete engine running on a test stand for an hour or more. Then if a problem is found, you and the new engine and all the extra parts are in a place where the problem can be worked out in one location to the satisfaction of everyone. Check with the technical directors of the two national clubs...they are really plugged into forks who can build well... Ernie

[Cape Codder]

I agree with Ernie Vitucci. I think that it is a GREAT idea to have someone rebuild your motor and RUN it for an hour BEFORE shipping it to you. Also, talk to people in your club who have had a motor rebuilt and HAD A PROBLEM. Then talk to them about how the problem was handled. I had a motor rebuilt which was not run prior to shipping and HAD A PROBLEM which was not HANDLED well at all!!! Remember, you are going to spend $3500 to $4000 so it should be EXCELLENT Engine.

[Jerry Huntngton Beach]

I use Engine Supply, Santa Ana, CA for all my machining and modification requirements. Owner is very knowledgeable with Model A experience and state of the art equipment. Ask for MIKE.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

I agree with Ernie Vitucci. I think that it is a GREAT idea to have someone rebuild your motor and RUN it for an hour BEFORE shipping it to you. Also, talk to people in your club who have had a motor rebuilt and HAD A PROBLEM. Then talk to them about how the problem was handled. I had a motor rebuilt which was not run prior to shipping and HAD A PROBLEM which was not HANDLED well at all!!! Remember, you are going to spend $3500 to $4000 so it should be EXCELLENT Engine.

Ford ran the engines in at the Rouge before they ever hit the assembly plants. Even then, they would get one that was bad from time to time. It happens.

I am a believer in an engine being tested before it gets put in your car.

[hardtimes]

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Originally Posted by klawockvet

Looking for references for reputable builders in Southern California who build fully balanced touring motors with inserts instead of babbitt.

Why in SoCal, and what do you consider SoCal ?

I see your location and suggest that you are close to Joe Sivils in Turlock. Joe is, IMO, a very talented/dedicated A/B builder...mild to whatever you want. You would be advancing yourself and your search for A/B engine work, by telephoning Joe and getting input for your decision. Good luck.

[mike657894]

I have been thinking about inserts. I would think you could take the tech sheet to any reputable machine shop and have the machine work done cheaply. Engine builders are only as good as the machine shop they use along with their knowledge and measurement tools. I would also think you could take your engine to any well recommended engine builder and have it come back right. Its just a 4cyl engine. Antique Engine Offers partial service and reworked short blocks with option for counter balanced crank.

http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/INSERTTECH.html

http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/partial.html

[Cape Codder]

I have read the information provided by mike657894 from Antique Engine Rebuilding and all the services they offer. I feel they have very competitive prices until I got to the section where it read "add $1865.00 for RUNNING ENGINE". Is this part of the job so time consuming and technical to put a rebuilt engine into a engine stand and run it for any hour then remove it? Not ever having done this I must say I was SHOCKED!

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

I have read the information provided by mike657894 from Antique Engine Rebuilding and all the services they offer. I feel they have very competitive prices until I got to the section where it read "add $1865.00 for RUNNING ENGINE". Is this part of the job so time consuming and technical to put a rebuilt engine into a engine stand and run it for any hour then remove it? Not ever having done this I must say I was SHOCKED!

What they mean by "running engine" is that for $1865 they add...

• STARTER rebuilt
•GENERATOR rebuilt
•DISTRIBUTOR rebuilt
•IGNITION New
•CARBURETOR New
•WATER PUMP New
•BELT New
•MANIFOLDS New
•OIL
•PAINT
•ASSEMBLY
•RUN TEST

http://antiqueenginerebuilding.com/MODELA.html

If you just want the run test, my guess is they would do that for you, but not for free.

[Cape Codder]

Thanks for the info Dick! I didn't quite understand it the way it was presented.

[100IH]

The fact that the 85 years on the iron, in the engine, is a factor in getting reliable reman work done IS a real hurdle. A similar hurdle is that newer machinery being made is nearly all aimed at a mass production very large businesses for big money. Many American equipment manufacturers have gone out of business, only to be replaced by foreign companies that don't stock replacement parts. Mom and pop businesses needing tools of the trade, wind up looking for antique machines in better shape than what they have. EPA and OSHA haven't made staying in business any easier. Crap, just cleaning a block today requires about 40-80 thousand dollars, record keeping beyond reason, and regular inspections, just to be able to be able to give a customer an estimate. Small business is not getting into engine rebuilding, no wonder that very few are learning the trade skills.

[Jeff/Illinois]

100IH,,,, sounds like the stab in the heart for our Model A hobby

Ya have to wonder where it will all be in ten years. Electric conversions for Model A's? There are forces working to bring about some pretty drastic changes, like it or not, in automobiles as we see them today. May be a whole different animal in a short time from now..............

[slammin]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

100IH,,,, sounds like the stab in the heart for our Model A hobby

Ya have to wonder where it will all be in ten years. Electric conversions for Model A's? There are forces working to bring about some pretty drastic changes, like it or not, in automobiles as we see them today. May be a whole different animal in a short time from now..............

Just as older vehicles are exempt from clean air standards, I expect antique cars will be exempt from many of the proposed changes. Eventually gasoline my be difficult to purchase, ethanol has been the standard for years, but you can still buy alcohol free gas. There are enough internal combustion engines on the road I don't think any of us need to worry about them being outlawed. One doesn't have to look to hard to find something else more dire to be concerned about.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

100IH,,,, sounds like the stab in the heart for our Model A hobby

Ya have to wonder where it will all be in ten years. Electric conversions for Model A's? There are forces working to bring about some pretty drastic changes, like it or not, in automobiles as we see them today. May be a whole different animal in a short time from now..............

I can imagine a similar conversation in the early 1900's when there were dire warnings of the possibility of the internal combustion engine replacing the horse.

Me thinks that those that want to play with old cars (or horses) in 50 years will still be doing it.

[Scottio57]

H&H did an engine in my T over three years ago. Scat crank, 280 cam and so on. The engine runs great with no big leaks, noises or any problems at all. I drive my T almost every day so it has more miles per year than most. I noticed they do a lot of A engines there. I can only speak from my own personal experience, not second or third hand, But I am happy with their work and I’m confident I got my $ worth.

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

Ford ran the engines in at the Rouge before they ever hit the assembly plants. Even then, they would get one that was bad from time to time. It happens.

I am a believer in an engine being tested before it gets put in your car.

I do not think the engines were actually "run" at the Rouge Plant.

It is my understanding that the engines were put on a motoring dynamometer where the engine was "run in" with an electric motor and the resistance was measured. When the resistance dropped below a pre determined level, the engine was pronounced good and shipped to an assembly line.

Chris W.

[Railcarmover]

Mr Chris W is correct .Ford spun them to test resistance..they basically measure the engine resistance to spin against a standard,they spun the engine a predetermined amount of time,if the engine didn't reach the standard it was rejected.

Some of us don't have the luxury of farming out the engine and complaining when it comes back..I get the minimum machine work needed and assemble myself,that way warranty is easy,you just find a mirror and start yelling..

[klawockvet]

I suppose I should have asked for a reputable machine shop in SoCal instead of rebuilder. This post has certainly grown legs that has taken it far from my original intention, which was to find someone to drill a crank, add weights and balance a rotating assembly. Joe in Turlock was my choice and my block is there now.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

I agree with Ernie Vitucci. I think that it is a GREAT idea to have someone rebuild your motor and RUN it for an hour BEFORE shipping it to you. Also, talk to people in your club who have had a motor rebuilt and HAD A PROBLEM. Then talk to them about how the problem was handled. I had a motor rebuilt which was not run prior to shipping and HAD A PROBLEM which was not HANDLED well at all!!! Remember, you are going to spend $3500 to $4000 so it should be EXCELLENT Engine.

i don't think running a engine on a stand for 1 hr is good, the rings need a load on them to seat right

[Chris Haynes]

I live in The San Fernando Valley and take my work to Joe Sivils at Turlock machine. I have heard many, many complaints about H&H but I have never heard a bad word about Joe. Always call him before you go to be sure he will be there as he runs a one man shop.