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Old 06-29-2020, 02:42 AM   #1
vincent
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Default 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

Hello all
just by chance I found your wonderful Ford barn. My name is Harty, I am from Germany, spend a lot of my life with british motorcycles from last century. Having sold my Mercedes CLS I decided I need an old V8 car. I was searching for a Hot Rod Ford Coupe but the german laws are very unforgiving for the Hot rods and there is a lot of junk on offer for a lot of money so I decided an unmodified car would be the better thing for me. Good luck came my way when I was able to buy a very original 34 Tudor Ford car, albeit technically sort of neglected.... It is a RH drive and I was told, it was built in South America. Anyway, I sorted the carb, exhaustsystem and brakes and got it on the road. As it has the original three speed tranny I found it to be very undergeared. The motor is revving very high and I could barely go faster than 50 mph. With this gearing the car is useless for german traffic as I would be in everyones way on the road. I know that there is a "fast" ring gear available but this 3,54 ratio is only 16% faster than the 4,11 that probably is in the car. I would like to get around 30% faster just to lower the revs and get the car up to 65mph without overrevving. Now my question to you gearheads: is there a gearbox available that fits the crankcase of this engine and is way faster than the original thing? I can live with three speeds but at the moment I change into high gear with a screaming engine at around 35 mph....
Thanks in advance for all your suggestions and advice!
PS: the car has 16" wheels and tires 6 x 6.00. I think it should have 17". Is this correct? Anybody having two 17" wheels for sale?

cheers, Harty
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Old 06-29-2020, 02:57 AM   #2
Tinker
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

16" 6.00 is correct. A little bigger tire will add some.3:54 is a good gear set for the rear with a strong engine. If three sp is important and is fine. I'd next look at the motor. How is that doing? Milling heads will add some compression and remain in the stock zone. Stocker should run in the 55-60 mph range no issue.
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Old 06-29-2020, 04:48 AM   #3
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

Welcome to the Ford Barn. The original correct wheels and tires on a 34 Ford is 5.50x17"wire spoked . These cars when new were good for 80 MPH plus but not today in modern traffic. You would have to maybe update the brakes to match any improved performance you have planned. I drive an original 34 sedan with its mechanical brakes and it runs OK at 50 to 55 MPH which is all I will go. You have to ask yourself if you want to enjoy vintage motoring as it was back in the day or if you want to run with the modern traffic on a German highway. If it is the latter then some modifications to many components will be required. Always a shame to alter an original car that has survived this long in my book. 5 speed boxes can be adapted along with hydraulic brakes and smaller wheels with radial tires etc, etc. Good luck, Regards, Kevin.
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

Hello again
I am confused now as I donīt know which wheel size is definitely correct. I donīt want to modify the car at all but it is way to slow for our traffic, to survive it, I should at least be able to do 80km per hour (50mph) without grenading the engine. The engine is the 21 bolt engine. It has got some (enough) torque to cruise at 80km per hour but to go 80 kph it is allready way over the torque summit. I fear the high continous revving will kill it. I hope I can find a solution to make this car cruisable without destroying all the old stuff. So it seems the only possible cure at the moment is putting the fast ring gear into the differencial and fit bigger 17" wheels with a larger tire. That will give me about 20% less revs. Or I have to do a complete set of gears for the gearbox. I have people and machines to do this but for a one-off it might be a bit expensive.
cheers, Harty

Do 17" rims exist with a 4" width?
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:25 AM   #5
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

Welcome to the Barn Harty. You will get some great help here.
Cheers
Tony
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:37 AM   #6
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

Hi again, I gave you the correct information on the wheels and tires. 5.50x17'' so that's 5 !/2 inches wide x 17 inches diameter. 6.00X16'" wheels came in on the 1935 models. Be aware that some information posted on here is not correct. These cars with a standard diff ratio of 4.11 would do about 84 MPH in road tests of the day. Sometimes the old V8s sound like they a revving hard because of the air flow noise coming from the generator mounted fan. Maybe your engine needs a tune up. I think you could gain some experience with your car by buying some service literature and studding up on it before deciding on any modifications. Best way of driving your car is to pick quiet country roads and keep off the high speed freeways. 50MPH is very easy for a good condition Ford V8 to cruise at. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:44 AM   #7
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Just another point, are you sure you have it in 3rd (or top) gear ? Don't mean to be funny here but strange things can happen ! Many good books are available on these fords. Try MACS on line catalogue which has a book section. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:44 AM   #8
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

I have a set of 4 17" rims with tires(old!!) here in sweden.
Not sure if i have a correct set of hubcaps for them though...make me an offer !
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:52 AM   #9
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Send me some pics - if they are 5 x 5,5", have a center hole of about 92mm and the big hole for the hub cap is about 140mm AND a rim of at least 4 inches between the shoulders, I am very interested. My 16" rims are about 140mm wide on the outside.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:53 AM   #10
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Just another point, are you sure you have it in 3rd (or top) gear ? Don't mean to be funny here but strange things can happen ! Many good books are available on these fords. Try MACS on line catalogue which has a book section. Regards, Kevin.
Yes, definitely in high gear. Reverse is forward left, low is backwards left, second is forward right and high is backward right (at least on my box)
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:54 AM   #11
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

Unless you have a very strong engine don't go more than 3.54 on the rear gear .
They get pretty doggy with a 3.25 rear gear .

Stock wheels on 33-34 cars are indeed 17 " .
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:01 AM   #12
vincent
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Hi again, I gave you the correct information on the wheels and tires. 5.50x17'' so that's 5 !/2 inches wide x 17 inches diameter. 6.00X16'" wheels came in on the 1935 models. Be aware that some information posted on here is not correct. These cars with a standard diff ratio of 4.11 would do about 84 MPH in road tests of the day. Sometimes the old V8s sound like they a revving hard because of the air flow noise coming from the generator mounted fan. Maybe your engine needs a tune up. I think you could gain some experience with your car by buying some service literature and studding up on it before deciding on any modifications. Best way of driving your car is to pick quiet country roads and keep off the high speed freeways. 50MPH is very easy for a good condition Ford V8 to cruise at. Regards, Kevin.
Kevin , thanks for your reply but I work on combustion engines for about 40 years now, have raced ten years on the Bonneville salt flats with a 3000cc streamliner motorcycle. I guess I can feel when the engine is running out of puff. No way would this 3,6 ltr motor propel the heavy car up to over 80 mph when new. The engine is rated at 75hp.
cheers, Harty
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:09 AM   #13
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

I have 16 inch wheels on mine and everything else is standard and like Kevin cruises comfortably at 50 to 60 mph (80 to 100 km/h ) would do more but not best for safety or longevity. I have a set of 17 inch wheels but haven't got around to putting them on - a full set of tires is expensive (especially in 17 inch radials) so I will wait until the ones I have need replacement before going to the bigger wheels. -Karl
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:19 AM   #14
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

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Kevin , thanks for your reply but I work on combustion engines for about 40 years now, have raced ten years on the Bonneville salt flats with a 3000cc streamliner motorcycle. I guess I can feel when the engine is running out of puff. No way would this 3,6 ltr motor propel the heavy car up to over 80 mph when new. The engine is rated at 75hp.
cheers, Harty
Kevin is right -when they were new multiple independent Road tests quoted a max speed of in excess of 80 mph ( I seem to remember 82 mph on one road test ). I suspect it took a while to get there but get there they apparently did. The engine is rated at 85hp for 1934 -Karl
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:28 AM   #15
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

If this car came from s america, not sure what rear axle ratio is in it. I've had a few 34 cars and trucks in my life and most went faster than I wanted to drive them. Bonny & Clide, thanked Henry for the fastest car on the road.
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:44 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by vincent View Post
Kevin , thanks for your reply but I work on combustion engines for about 40 years now, have raced ten years on the Bonneville salt flats with a 3000cc streamliner motorcycle. I guess I can feel when the engine is running out of puff. No way would this 3,6 ltr motor propel the heavy car up to over 80 mph when new. The engine is rated at 75hp.
cheers, Harty
Vincent, well I guess you have a bit to learn about the original 1934 21 stud Ford V8 engine. The 1933 Ford was rated at 75 brake horsepower. The 1934 was conservatively rated at 85 brake horse power (some publications say 90BHP)and was road tested to well over 80 Mph by several car magazines of the day including the English "MOTOR". Even some Ford Motor Company shop manuals stated this fact. Why do you think many police departments and Bonney & Clyde and John Dillinger and other lawbreakers used them. Because in their day they were one of the fastest production cars of their day. It would seem that your car/engine has a problem if it wont perform to close to this standard. As I stated, read some books. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:53 AM   #17
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Vincent, check to see that the carburettor throttle butterfly is fully open when your foot is flat to the floor. Something is definitely not correct on your car. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:09 AM   #18
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

Hi Harty,


fellow german. When I calculate the theoretical speed of my truck in direct gear and 4,87 rear end, I'll end up (7.50-16 Tires, 80cm diameter) with 73 kmh at 2500 engine rpm's. I would consider 2500-3000 rpm to be safe for long distance motoring.


With the engine at redline (3600 rpm) top speed of my 49 F2 would be 106 kmh. Will most likely never see this scary figure, though. A 4,11 ring gear set which is available for my rear end would raise my speed by some 20%.


Simply wait for the general speed limit to come.
The days of the german Autobahn as we know it are numbered, I guess.


Wil from Hamburg
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Old 06-29-2020, 10:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

Hello Vincent ! Welcome to the Ford Barn. If I had a fairly original car , I would do all I can to keep it stock. If you were wanting to run at higher speeds I would look into a overdrive system. Your brakes are going to be a big factor in the safety department. I drive a 1935 Ford pick up , it is 100% stock. I can run the local highways at a comfortable
speed of 60MPH or 90KPH. I really would not want to run faster than that due to the entire drive system was not designed for high speeds.
Good luck on your cool car.
Vic
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:03 AM   #20
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Default Re: 1934 Tudor needs a little hop-up

Hello Vincent....welcome to Fordbarn....this is a great on line forum to get information on your early Ford V8.
Based on my experiences over the years of owning, driving, doing all my own maintanence, and repair work on my '35 Fords, I think you would do well by changing the rear ring & pinion gear set from 4.11 to 3.54 gears. Also, by upgrading your original 3 speed transmission to '39-'48 gears with the improved synchronizer rings, and using a 29 tooth cluster gear with 15 tooth input gear, you will have a nice set up for good acceleration in 1st and 2nd, and a final gear combination that will allow you to easily cruise at 55 to 65 mph without exceedingly high engine rpm's. I'd also suggest keeping the 16" Ũ 4" wire wheels, and consider slightly larger diameter rear tires, maybe 6.50 to 7.00. If you do make these changes, don't forget to change the driven speedometer gear which means you may have to change the "turtle" housing as well.

Another consideration would be to add equalizers to your mechanical brakes at all four backing plates. After doing this to my '35 fordor sedan, I feel like these allow the brakes to work as well as any '39-'48 Ford with hydraulic brakes that I have ever driven.
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Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 06-29-2020 at 11:19 AM.
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