Another No Spark

[WQ59BJR]

Problem: No spark

Basic data:
1940 Ford COE
1946-49 "59AB" V8 flathead engine
all original except for wiring completely redone and electric fuel pump addeded
6 volt, positive ground
truck was last run and driven for a short distance (approx 200 feet) approximately 13 years ago

Ignition data:
Rebuilt stock carburator
Helmet distributor
Fuel tank cleaned and fresh fuel added
all new fuel lines and filter
new condenser
new points
new distributor caps
new spark plug wires
new spark plugs
stock ignition resistor

Symtoms:
With battery connected and ignition switch on:
6v at ignition switch
6v at input side of resistor
6v at output side of resistor (may I assume this will drop while motor is being cranked?)
6v at input to coil

Engine cranks but doesn't catch.
Pulled a plug, reconnected wire, held against clean ground and cranked engine. No spark

If you feel it might be the condenser and/or the coil (as I do), could you please give me DETAILED testing procedures as I've never attempted anything like this before.
Thanks!

[J Franklin]

New points & condenser put in 13 yrs ago? if more recent why? make sure to clean the points if they have set awhile.

[BillM]

6v at output side of resistor (may I assume this will drop while motor is being cranked?)

Yes. Also should see drop at output of coil at condenser.

[39topless]

Measure coil to ground. Should have 3.5 plus with points closed and equal or close to battery voltage with points open. Just bump the starter to open and close points.

[WQ59BJR]

Anything marked "New" was just replaced within the last few weeks:
Rebuilt stock carburator
new fuel lines and filter
new condenser
new points
new distributor caps
new spark plug wires
new spark plugs
Why? Since its been sitting idle in an unheated garage for the last 13 years I thought (I get into a lot of trouble doing that!) it was a good idea.

[WQ59BJR]

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Connected battery and flipped ignition switch to ON. Put meter on condenser and ground and got 6 volts. Bumped starter 6 or seven times and got 6 volts again each time. Does this mean the points are stuck and I should pull the distributor and re-check it or does it indicate a problem with the condenser or coil?

[OLD...BILL]

points may be stuck ?? what is the setting between points, like .0016 / or same as plugs gap. and yes the voltage should drop to 3.15 or lass as you crank (bump ) the starer and back up to 6 when you stop cranking, pull the cap off distributor, also rotor, ing. sw. off ... crank the eng. an watch the points. open and close.... should be a clear view of open and close .....and contact beaning made when closed .........reach in there with a 80 grit sand paper and clean the points, both sides .....
NOW with all the new stuff you installed, HOW meany new grounds did you install, like body to frame....frame to engine block....engine block to cab. and on and on ......MUST HAVE GOOD GROUNDS TO RUN AND START GOOD..... YES A MUST ....MAY THE ANSWER TO ALL ....AND WHY NO SPARK ??? ..............OLD...BILL

[alanwoodieman]

I also would clean the points first. does it have the helmet distributer or the flat 59ab type? . 59ab type are easier to clean the points. If it is a helmet, you will need to remove distributer from engine to get the points clean

[WQ59B]

Working with Jr on same truck.

It's a 59AB motor but with the '40 helmet dizzy.
Points were replaced with new. There was some 'transference' on the points we took out, we could file/re-install them… but the ones in there now are new & have never been run.

Have very good engine>frame ground… but will take a look at engine>cab & frame>cab.

[alanwoodieman]

I have had a problem with new usa made point sets, not sure of the mfg but there was a coating on them that would not allow them to make contact. I am going to ask a question that may make no sense. was the small adapter replaced behind the distributer when it was put back on? 59ab ran a shorter cam and to use the helmet distributer you must use the adapter button

[WQ59B]

There was nothing I saw there WRT a button… we did engage the slot with the end of the cam, positive it slid into place as we were conscious of that fit. Whatever was there when it ran in 2003 is still in there.

[WQ59BJR]

Today I connected a volt meter to the battery and frame, battery and engine block, battery and cab. Got 6 volts each time so I'm pretty confident in the trucks grounding status. Also lightly sanded spring and contact on bottom of coil. Next, put old condenser back on and still got 6 volts at coil input to ground and condenser to ground. Still no spark. Will remove the distributor next chance I get and check it out best I can for points gap and, even though they are new, will lightly sand/clean them. Will also check for "anything" touching "anything" it shouldn't. Wish me luck and thanks for all your input!

[Terry,OH]

If this has the crab style 21A distributor the electrical terminal on the top side of the distributor for the connection of the coil wire and the ignition condenser also connects these wires to the points. The terminal can go bad either mechanically or electrically and prevent the coil voltage from reaching the points. Just another point to look at. Remove the distributor cap and rotor continue looking for the coil voltage at the input to the terminal, the internal contact to the points and to one side of each sets of points. When you find your open circuit and correct it the voltage to the distributor will pulse each time the points both open and either closes.

[alanwoodieman]

when you remove the distributer, dismantle and check the rotor button for a ground fault. on helmet distributers the shaft goes thru the rotor button and will short out. if it has not been already put shrink wrap in the cut down section of the shaft, at least two layers. look into the rotor button and look for carbon tracks, cracks that would indicate a short.

[alanwoodieman]

make any progress on the no spark issue /

[WQ59BJR]

Doing this on phone so pls excuse shorthand. Cranked engine by hand-rotor turned and points opened/close ok. Removed coil and distrib. Continuity tests: coil input to primary coil output (spring on bottom of distrib) - ok. Primary coil output to coil side of points-ok. No shorts btwn coil connected points and anything with points open. Gap confirmed at .015". Rotated shaft to close points and continuity check btwn coil side and ground side of points-ok. Continuity check band around rotor and both rotor tabs-ok. Rotor not shorting to shaft. Tried continuity test btwn coil input and secondary coil output (carbon contact that rests on rotor band) and got NOTHING!!! Suspected secondary coil (high voltage side) failure. When got home realized my meter on goes to 10k ohms and probably won't work on secondary high voltage side of coil. Hoping to borrow a larger meter in next few days. Will check spark plug wires too with it. Thanks again for all your input!

[WQ59BJR]

Got hold of a decent meter and checked a few things out. According to Bubba's site, primary coil resistance should be less than 4 ohms, typical for a Ford coil is .6 - .7 ohms. I got .6 so I guess that's OK. Secondary coil resistance should be 3000 - to 6000 ohms with 3500 -5000 ohms typical for FORD. I got 6850.

Is that too high???

Also checked the spark plug wires. Drivers side from closest to distrib to furthest: .661 k ohms, .751, .924 and .953. Passenger side: .626, .827, .880 and 1.03. Since the wires used were specifically for a V8 Flathead (don't recall the brand) and had to have the distrib ends cut to fit and connectors installed, I double checked the connectors and redid 3 or 4 of them. Since he distrib has a gasket between it and the engine block I want to insure a good ground so I cleaned up the 3 bolts and lock washers, the surfaces that they mate to and the groove/slot on the end of the crankshaft and it mating tongue on the back of the distrib shaft. Reinstalled the coil and distrib and will do a spark test next.

[Terry,OH]

Don't use resistor plug wires with the original ford ignition! How about a photo of the distributor and coil??? Is your coil mounted to the top of the distributor or somewhere else??

[WQ59B]

Ford script coil sits on top of helmet dizzy- stock set-up. A pic :

[WQ59B]

Dizzy & coil went thru SKip's able hands. All checked out (including condenser).

Still having real issues just getting consistent, or sometimes ANY AT ALL continuity thru the spark plug wires. These are the universal Moroso wires sold thru Speedway. I believe those are carbon cores.

Is the issue that there's not enough power for the multimeter to get consistent continuity thru the wires… or is it something else, like the wires themselves? Are they known to have quality issues?

I don't need suppression wires- no electronics and no radio in my truck.