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Old 07-01-2022, 12:15 PM   #1461
B-O-B
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Chris; So sorry to hear about one of your best friends. I have lost a few & very hard to replace. I am looking for one as we talk. Wishing that you can fill the void with another one. Old dogs & old fords are the best.
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Old 07-01-2022, 12:27 PM   #1462
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

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Originally Posted by B-O-B View Post
Chris; So sorry to hear about one of your best friends. I have lost a few & very hard to replace. I am looking for one as we talk. Wishing that you can fill the void with another one. Old dogs & old fords are the best.
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Old 07-01-2022, 03:43 PM   #1463
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Sorry for your loss Chris. We lost our black Lab 7 years ago and it definitely hurts.
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Old 07-01-2022, 06:49 PM   #1464
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Guys,
Thanks! Maggie has helped me on all the tractor projects, making syrup, Building the shop, and the old 32 also. Unconditional love from these pets! Give yours a hug for me!

Regards,
Chris
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Old 07-01-2022, 07:22 PM   #1465
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Not trying to go on about this but, we had to put our Black Lab Abby down 2yrs ago because she couldn’t get around anymore and was in constant pain. Dogs are the family you don’t argue with, the kids that don’t talk back and the friends that don’t disappoint you.
They leave a big hole when there’re gone. Still, not a day goes by that I don’t think about her........Mark
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Old 07-01-2022, 07:48 PM   #1466
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Hey Mark. She has the look! Thanks.
Regards,
Chris
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Old 07-06-2022, 05:21 AM   #1467
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Ford Folks,
The B engine is still in process. John helped me install the pistons last night. After we ran out of ideas to get fuel to his Flathead. I did put rings on these too!





This engine is now a fully inserted bearing engine. .040 under on the rod journals. New rod assembly, pistons .080 over, and rings from Snyder's worked well.


Closed out the evening listening to Hank Jr. and enjoying the summer breeze! Also took a ride in the dump truck and the wind coming in under the open windshield was a great way to cool down! You just cant do that in the new fangled trucks!


We have our local tractor show next week, so lots of moves to be ready for that event.
Pioneer Steam and Gas Engine Society of Northwestern PA. Maybe I will see you there!
I do plan to have the 32 there.

Regards,
Chris
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Old 07-07-2022, 08:39 AM   #1468
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Folks,
Minor set back on the 32 model B engine assembly. Basically the rod bearings, to journal fit, are too tight. Torqued the rod bolts to spec. 35 ft lbs. and the rotating assembly does not rotate! Plastigaged #1 and #2 rod bearing cap and they are at or slightly less than .001
clearance.
Talked to Kevin at Snyder's, and my machine shop and both agreed the engine needs to come apart now and additional tuning/ adjustments requered to get the clearance needed for mooth rotation of the crank assembly with minimal effort. Maybe at least another .001, making .002 to .003?? clearance.
While apart and at the machine shop, we will check the crank bearing fit again too, as it was a little stiff to rotate when I had is set and torqued. Could be something I was doing wrong during assembly?? Anyway we will get it! Its only nuts and bolts!
Will order and new rear seal for the assembly, as the one in there will have to come out and may get damaged?







Another item of note. I got the oil pan out for review, that came off the # 1 engine. I had found one hole when I was ready to install on the #2 engine buil. The hole was due to corrosion from the inside out. This was from years of the oil eating at the pan. Well I found at least three other small pin holes. My guess it that this pan is going to be set aside as a display item only. Not sure they can repaired? I was warned about this being a issue on these 90 year old engines. Good to have a acceptable pan that will come off the #2 engine.

Regards,
Chris
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Old 07-07-2022, 08:58 AM   #1469
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Hey Chris - you're doing the right thing in tearing it apart. If it was mine, I'd surely ask the dang machine shop why they didn't mic the bearings BEFORE they ground the crankshaft?

You can't rely on standard undersizes on these vintage engines (especially as you're switching over from a babbit setup) - you have to setup the rods/mains and use a precision 3-point dial bore gauge to see what the bearings mic too - THEN you grind your crank to match.

Also, they SHOULD NOT attempt to achieve clearance by polishing the crank - it has to be reground to add the clearance and hopefully they have a good enough crank grinder (equipment and operator) to take off .001 to .0015 off the journals. I'd shoot for .00175 to .002 as a clearance as having it a bit "loose" is surely better than too tight.

On the mains, you should be able to easily grab the shout of the crankshaft and spin the crank over (obviously without the rods/pistons and cam gear on). If you can't easily spin it, then the mains may need increased clearance. The only thing I can't speak too is whether or not the rear main seal setup can cause drag on your particular engine?

Have them check the crankshaft end-play/trust clearances as well.
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Old 07-07-2022, 09:13 AM   #1470
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Dale, Folks,
Several things happen on these types of events. I have had good luck with this shop. He admits this is the first B engine he has done. He has done A engines. Also he agrees that the sizes may not have been verified/ established early on. Maybe my fault for not getting all the specs?? Anyway, recovery is everything! He feels that the crank can be reground to provide the correct clearance after the rods and bearings are bore guaged. Sometimes we have to do, to learn! Thanks for your support.

Also as a side note in talking with Kevin at Snyder's, he has done lot of Model A's and said he had to rework a crank 3 times to get the clearance he needed. He also mentioned that he doesnt see a lot the new bearing insert rod assemblies being used out in the real world.
So we are learning, and I tend to tell the good the bad and the ugly, hoping someone else can be helped too.

I rely a lot on others to make sure this stuff is correct. I actually hate to get in the middle of stuff like specs and machining, as I will usually mess something up!
Regards,
Chris
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Old 07-07-2022, 12:40 PM   #1471
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Hey Chris: You're doing the right things - especially by recognizing that "something is not right" and not just throwing it together or manhandling it with a breaker-bar. Then telling yourself "it will be okay" . . .

The lower end setup (clearances and machining) are so important for any engine to correctly operate - yet not many folks really know how to do it and/or can identify when things are wrong. That is why you hear so many horror stories about whipped out bearings, metal in the oil, etc. . . from "newly rebuilt" engines (especially those assembled by the owner.).

On my vintage engines, I always mic the existing crank and rods first, then order the bearings and then instruct the machine shop as to what exact clearances I need - it is then their responsibility to deliver them. I hand over all the parts, so they can MIC them with their equipment - so there can be no disparity on the measurement methods or tools. This really helps the machine shop, me the builder and ultimately the final product.

These same issues can exist even with a very expensive custom billet crankshaft. I had one made for the FlatCAD Bonneville engine and told them the bearing clearances I needed, yet the manufacturer ground the journals on the TIGHT side of a stock spec. I then had to have the crank reground by my local machine shop - to take .00075 off of the journals - giving me .0015 more clearance. Not many shops can do this - thank God I have one that can. This was a $5000 crank!

All your experience with your various farm implements does pay off! Keep up the good work - can't wait to see you with your new engine in place.

Dale
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Old 07-08-2022, 06:09 AM   #1472
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Dale,
Folkls,
Thanks for the support on the B engine work. We will get there!

I have a question about the crank shaft journals on this non counterballanced "B" crank.
It has pins that are, I believe, through the crank weights. They are approx 3/16 dia. What is the function of these pins in the crank?
several pictures:














Regards,
Chris
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Old 07-08-2022, 06:29 AM   #1473
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Folks,
As if we dont have enough to do Cheryl and I took on another addition to the family. Our golden Maggie was such a wonderful dog! Folks would come here just to see her! Well, not sure this pup can fill those paw prints, but she is off to a good start!

Meet,
Ruby May Casbohm, a Golden Retriver, born May 1 2022. Brought home July 7 2022.
This was a though one to pick out as she had many brothers and sisters!


The girls:


The boys:


Out side her kennel, she held very still for this first picture:


At home lounging on her towel after a very quiet night in her cage:




Yep, baby pictures! Thanks for putting up with my off topic posts.


Regards,
Chris
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Old 07-08-2022, 09:11 AM   #1474
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Chris, Congratulations on your new arrival (Ruby May)! What a cutie! You won't spoil her will you? LOL

Stay Safe!
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Old 07-08-2022, 09:42 AM   #1475
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

I think the pins were to hold the add on weights Ford put on the early cranks
when the engine was rebuilt. David will probably know. The weights have to be removed to grind the crank.
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Old 07-08-2022, 08:04 PM   #1476
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Folks,
Not planning on spoiling the pup. She now is in complete control!

On the pins these weights don't look like they are added on?
Regards,
Chris
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Old 07-09-2022, 07:37 AM   #1477
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
I think the pins were to hold the add on weights Ford put on the early cranks
when the engine was rebuilt. David will probably know. The weights have to be removed to grind the crank.
Bob C, Folks,
I see the ballance lobes look to be added on. But the pins dont look to go through the added on lobe weights. I still dont have the engineering or design concepts of the function of these pins. I guess I would need to see the drawings! Or sketches.
Regards,
Chris
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Old 07-09-2022, 10:27 AM   #1478
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Chris, Maybe these pictures will help. The 1st is the early crank like you have, the 2nd
is the early crank with the weights added and the 3rd is the later counter balanced crank.
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File Type: jpg CrankwithSwedgeOnWeight.jpg (202.5 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg ModelB-crank.jpg (53.4 KB, 45 views)
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Old 07-09-2022, 10:27 AM   #1479
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

I think that Bob C's idea is a good one, although given the relatively low engine number of Chris's truck it suggests that the crank shaft in the engine now is not the one it was built with, but rather one it ended up with in a previous rebuild. In other words, it was switched along the way with the weights left behind. The pins plus the finished surfaces on the circumferences of the where the pins are located seen like telltales. All of my fours have c/balanced crankshafts, but all those have integral weights as in his fourth photo, so I've had no experience with the add-on weight version shown in his first and third photos.

Last edited by DavidG; 07-09-2022 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 07-10-2022, 06:33 AM   #1480
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Default Re: 1932 The Deuce, Dually, Dump Truck

Bob, David, and Robert R (observer),
I can now begin to grasp the add on weight concept and the use of the pins to secure them to the round lobes. These pictures helped me so much. I now have a ide of what to look for on future 32 Ford B engine hunts!
I plan to take the 32 dump to the local tractor show next weekend. I bought a 10 x 20 tent to park under for the 3 day show. Hoping that Larry and his wife (previous owner) will be there to talk with folks about this truck too. Of course there will be pictures.
Yesterday was a work day at the grounds and the barley was loaded on wagons and trailers. It will be thrashed as one of the main events at the show. See if this works?

https://www.facebook.com/pioneersteamandgas

The pup is keeping us busy!
Regards,
Chris
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