King pins

[40cpe]

in the last couple of days my '38 has started to "wobble" sometimes at low speeds. My king pins have some slack so I'll start by replacing them rather than install a steering damper. I've done a search on them and see that here have been some undersized pins sold. I also see the price varies from about $40 to about $150. Am I right in suspecting the lower priced kits are of lesser quality? Even if a cheap kit fits, are the pins and bushings durable? I don't mind paying for quality but would prefer not to pay $150 for a $40 kit. If you have been down this road I would appreciate your experience/results.

As a side observation, It has been in the high 20s these same days, I'm wondering if my tolerances were on the loose side anyway and the colder weather has shrunk them to the point of too much slack?

[tubman]

Be aware that there are two basic kinds of king pins for these cars; regular ones with brass bushings and others with needle bearings. This probably explains the disparity in prices. Some people swear by the needle bearing versions, saying the are almost like having power steering, while others swear at them, citing various problems. I have never used anything other that regular bushing type king pins, and have always had excellent results, so I can't advise you on which type to get. There are many posts out there , particularly on the H.A.M.B., about the needle bearing type so you can do some research and come to your own conclusions. As far as bushing type kits, you should probably look for kits made here by an old line supplier. NOS would probably be best, but the older the better.

Installation is also a key. I fitted the first set I ever had in about 1961 with a brake hone and they worked fine. Most well equipped shops have special reamers that pilot properly and ensure a proper fit.

[Seth Swoboda]

Don't use the needle bearing type. I think speedway sells the kingpin set. It will come with new brass bushings that you will install in the spindles. It's not a hard fix. I recently bought a nos king pin set from a guy here on the barn for my 1940 ford sedan. You should be able to buy a new king pin set for around $75 I think.

[TagMan]

In the first place, this is only MY opinion, but I've done a lot of king pin replacements in the last 55+ years.

Jack each wheel up, grab the tire at the top & bottom and try to "wiggle" it. If you have percetible play, the bushing are worn.

If the bushing(s) are not worn through and damaged the king pin itself, all you'll need is a king pin replacement kit and $40.00 seems to be the going price for them. I would guess the $150.00 kit contains roller bearings instead of bushings and, IMO, roller bearings are not needed or even desireable in that application - first of all, theres no high speed rotaion and secondly, a roller bearing only has point contact and a bushing will provide better support. Go for the $40.00 king pin set.

The bushings will have to be pressed out and new bushings pressed in. Pressing in the bushings will "collapse" the bushings a bit, necessitating having to ream or hone (I'm not going to get into the differing opinions on which method is better, but I prefer reaming) the inside diameter of the bushings to resize the bushings to allow the pin a sliding fit - enough for a film of grease to slide, but not enough to allow any shake when the assembly is put back together. Not something you probably should do, unless you have the benifit of someone teaching you how to do to do it or have some machine shop experience. Check your club, if you belong to one, and see if there's someone willing to do it for you or find a local machine shop and have them do it for you.

[woodiewagon46]

Jack up the front end and check all the components such as ball joints, shackles and the king pins. Follow Tagman's suggestions and you will be OK. As mentioned do not use the roller bearing king pin sets. Several people that I know have had issues with them and it has been discussed on this site.

[JSeery]

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Originally Posted by woodiewagon46

Jack up the front end and check all the components such as ball joints, shackles and the king pins.

This is a 38, no ball joint, were you referring to tie rod ends?

[rotorwrench]

Tires are the easiest thing to check when wobble show up. A separation in the carcass can cause a wobble too so make sure your tires are not the problem first. I usually just take them off and roll them on a flat concrete slab and see if they roll true. If they twitch around and fall over right away then that is a cause for concern.

I always check the easiest thing first when problems show up then go on the the next easiest and so on.

[40cpe]

Thanks for all the replies. Bushings it is. The king pins definitely have slack. I'll double check the tie rod ends, wheel bearings, and tires in the process.

Thanks again, Gene

[FlatheadTed]

Wheel bearing play coupled with steering box play or wish bone ball play will give you wobble .Ted

[1931 flamingo]

How about the wish bone ball??
Paul in CT

[Phil Gillespie]

Even the obvious perhaps as suggested grease all fittings and observe king pins when greasing. if they are a close fit grease normally can only penetrate if jacked up.
The grease film does assist some between pin and bush.
Have just done mine, reamed and hone finish. And in position until some wear grease hard to get in. All the best.
Phil NZ

[40cpe]

No, I haven't checked the ball, thanks for the reminder. I'll check it, too

[Karl Wolf]

Oops.

[Karl Wolf]

The best-Find a shop with a Sunnen hone, with the mandrel that will reach through both top and bottom bushings- This will insure that the two bushings line up.

I fit the bushings to the king pin so that the pin is tight, just able to push in by hand.
They will be loose enough function, and last longer.

A reamer will work, but press one bushing at a time. On the first bushing, press the new one in, use the least worn side of the other old bushing as a guide to line up the cut on the new one. Then do the second bushing using the one you reamed first as a guide.

The first set I did for someone else, I gave them .001 clearance- he was mad at me, too loose.

Karl

[jimTN]

Just check Ebay for original Ford or a reputable brand of NOS kingpins. There have been some sold in recent years that are slightly smaller in diameter and will warp when the lock in tightened and bind in the bushings.

[TJ]

There are USA made kingpin sets on e-Bay for $40 from Pete and Jakes.

[scrapiron]

Be sure to pack the load bearing also

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by 40cpe

in the last couple of days my '38 has started to "wobble" sometimes at low speeds. My king pins have some slack so I'll start by replacing them rather than install a steering damper. I've done a search on them and see that here have been some undersized pins sold. I also see the price varies from about $40 to about $150. Am I right in suspecting the lower priced kits are of lesser quality? Even if a cheap kit fits, are the pins and bushings durable? I don't mind paying for quality but would prefer not to pay $150 for a $40 kit. If you have been down this road I would appreciate your experience/results.

As a side observation, It has been in the high 20s these same days, I'm wondering if my tolerances were on the loose side anyway and the colder weather has shrunk them to the point of too much slack?

Your 'side observation'....may to the truth of this matter !
At any rate...re-check ALL connections for proper torque/tightness !
I just paid ($) to re-learn this.
I had rebuilt/replaced everything on my front end. Thought I'd tightened up everything sufficiently.. nope !
NOTE:
couldn't see all by myself when moving/shaking front end. So, one guy to do that and one to observe, did the trick. I'd not tightened one part enough. Easy fix...do the easy stuff first, cost less