Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-26-2019, 02:14 PM   #1
leon bee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 611
Default 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

I didn't put them in there. Was such a pain on my first engine, that I even bent a valve and had to buy another.........that engine runs great.

This 53 was kind of a quickie: hone, rings, lap the valves, new bearing shells. It's all assembled, but not started yet. I spun it up with the starter, 50 pounds oil pressure right away. I left out those awful square section rubber seal rings, but then I also forgot to smear the guides with some kind of sealer like I think Ron does. Now I'm wondering whether to be concerned, Murre mentioned finding round o-rings. Engine's on my bench, so trying to decide if I should pull 8 assemblies out and do something, Now would be the time, they'll come out easy.

All this is because I read something here about oil being sucked up through there and I don't know how long that could last till things got crudded up and sealed themselves. And I like to know how well I did right soon after I fire her the first time. Any thoughts appreciated, thanks!!
leon bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 02:32 PM   #2
JSeery
Member Emeritus
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

That is the purpose of the seals, to control oil being pulled around the guides.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-26-2019, 03:27 PM   #3
Ronnieroadster
Senior Member
 
Ronnieroadster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: East Coast in CT
Posts: 1,510
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leon bee View Post
I didn't put them in there. Was such a pain on my first engine, that I even bent a valve and had to buy another.........that engine runs great.

This 53 was kind of a quickie: hone, rings, lap the valves, new bearing shells. It's all assembled, but not started yet. I spun it up with the starter, 50 pounds oil pressure right away. I left out those awful square section rubber seal rings, but then I also forgot to smear the guides with some kind of sealer like I think Ron does. Now I'm wondering whether to be concerned, Murre mentioned finding round o-rings. Engine's on my bench, so trying to decide if I should pull 8 assemblies out and do something, Now would be the time, they'll come out easy.

All this is because I read something here about oil being sucked up through there and I don't know how long that could last till things got crudded up and sealed themselves. And I like to know how well I did right soon after I fire her the first time. Any thoughts appreciated, thanks!!
Take the time and put the O rings in. I find they go in easily if you lubricate the outer surface of the O ring when your ready to pull the valve assembly into the guide hole. It will take a bit of effort to pull the guide down but thats whats needed to get the seal your after the O ring is compressing into the guide grove and sealing tightly in the guide hole. Its worth the effort. Just putting silcone sealer on the outer surface of the guide usually only rubs off when installed.
Ronnieroadster
__________________
I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish.
"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder, Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
First ever gas burning Ford flathead powered roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH
Ronnieroadster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 05:28 PM   #4
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 5,898
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

What worked for me was to fabricate a wooden dowel to hold the seal while creating a chamfer on the leading edge of the seal with a belt sander (or any other method)
Eliminated any 'shearing' for me.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg seal chamf.jpg (14.4 KB, 207 views)
__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 06:01 PM   #5
19Fordy
Senior Member
 
19Fordy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 10,879
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

Put them in NOW to avoid problems later.
It will never be easier to install them than it is now.
19Fordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 07:39 PM   #6
leon bee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 611
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Okay, I knew everybody would say that. I guess I've been wondering how necessary they really are? Are y'all saying it really will pull oil up there?

Those dam square ones were a b*tch on the first engine........and I'm good at this kind of thing. I whittled a little chamfer like 51 Merc says, helped some.

At the time, I looked for nice fat normal o-rings but never did find anything that seemed good enough. Soon as I get a couple other projects done I'm back on this 53 to put the seals in. Thanks!
leon bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 08:40 PM   #7
JSeery
Member Emeritus
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

Yes, it will pull oil around the guides. I don't know the o-ring size/part number.
Red's has them, $10 a set. http://reds-headers.net/index.php?ma...roducts_id=486

Last edited by JSeery; 05-26-2019 at 09:11 PM.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 09:12 PM   #8
quickchange34
Senior Member
 
quickchange34's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: charlottesville, Va.
Posts: 588
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

The Best gasket set comes with the o ring style seals , They are easy to install compared to the square shoulder seals. Lube either style when installing .
quickchange34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2019, 10:44 PM   #9
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 4,516
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

i do as 51 Merc does. I just hit the edge with the wire wheel on my bench grinder. A little lube and they go in without a problem.
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2019, 01:51 AM   #10
Lawrie
Senior Member
 
Lawrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Qld, Australia
Posts: 4,197
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

If you dont put them in, they will suck oil in,Then the carbon will build up on top of the piston and head and then the next thing you will have a noise like hammers tied to the crankshaft,ask me I know.
Lawrie
Lawrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2019, 02:39 AM   #11
leon bee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 611
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

Okay, I'm doin it.
leon bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2019, 07:41 AM   #12
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,842
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

Haven't used the seals for the past 50 years. Just a little RTV and your good to go. However, if it makes you feel better put in the seals. Just remember Ford didn't use any seals before 49 on the split guides.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2019, 07:21 AM   #13
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,842
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

Mtt
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2019, 08:50 AM   #14
Mike51Merc
Senior Member
 
Mike51Merc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,582
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

Besides the potential oil getting sucked into the intake tract, think about the air that can get sucked in, creating an internal vacuum leak.
Mike51Merc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2019, 09:04 AM   #15
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 5,898
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike51Merc View Post
Besides the potential oil getting sucked into the intake tract, think about the air that can get sucked in, creating an internal vacuum leak.
That's what's called Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV), without the modern plumbing
__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES

Last edited by 51 MERC-CT; 05-28-2019 at 10:29 AM.
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2019, 03:06 PM   #16
leon bee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 611
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

I was afraid Ol' Ron had just killed the whole thread! If I had smeared something on those guides, I'd give it a try. But I forgot. I haven't torqued the heads yet on this engine, no coppercoat or anything so I'll have at it.
leon bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2019, 03:08 PM   #17
leon bee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 611
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

I wanted to buy the o-rings from Red's, but I got at least 20 of the dam square rings here so I'll force those bastards in there.
leon bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2019, 03:32 PM   #18
macdonge
Senior Member
 
macdonge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Frelighsburg, QC
Posts: 165
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

Even the round o-rings from Red's can be real stubborn to get in. I found that by shaving 1/32" off of the quadrant facing the intake manifold they were much easier to install.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0798.jpg (24.0 KB, 27 views)
macdonge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2019, 04:11 PM   #19
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 4,516
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

Bevel the square edges.
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2019, 04:29 PM   #20
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,842
Default Re: 53 Mercury Intake Guide Seals?

The reason the PVC works: is because the clearance between the guide and the bore is very small a few thou at most. The PVC covers this in a small film and hardens some. It also adheres to the guide and bore sealing it. Now comes the best part. It never hardens. One day I was changing a cam for the stockcar and the rubber guide seals were in bad shape and I didn't have any new ones. So I put some PVc on the guides and ran the engine. After the season I tore the engine down and the valves came out very easy and you could see the way it sealed the area. After that I never used the seals, and never will. The reason Ford used them in the first place was PVC wasn't available when the new guides were designed. Today most engine are sealed with a sealant of some kind instead of a gasket. And besides. I'm pretty Lazy.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:54 AM.