Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

[Merc Cruzer]

I just finished rebuilding an engine for my 53 Merc. Had the new block magnafluxed - no cracks. Bored out to .60 over. Reused the pistons, rods, crank and cam. Had engine fully balanced. New rings, berings, and bushings. Fired it up last night and all was well. Took it out for a break-in run today and got about 2 miles and it seized. Oil pressure was 45 lbs at 30 mph. Temp was 170. Was running great until I came to a stop and then it just seized. Tried to turn it over by hand (2’ breaker bar on the front pulley bolt) with no luck. Drained the oil and nothing in the oil. Any suggestions....... before I pull the engine.

[nathanmac]

incorrect ring gap? some swarf or blockage anywhere in an oil line?

[flatjack9]

What sort of clearances, ring end gap, etc.?

[Merc Cruzer]

I can only guess as this point as to possible blockage in the oil line ...the gap was checked at the machine shop after the bore was completed and again when I assembled it....

[Lawson Cox]

Try to crank it again after it cools down. I had the engine in a 28 Buick do the same thing after running it just a few miles. Pulled it down and everything looked fine. Cranked it back up and just nursed it along for a while and no further problems. Just built a little too snug I guess.

[Deuce-Merchant]

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Im confused, how do you reuse the old pistons if you bored the block .060 oversize???

[Merc Cruzer]

<FONT color=#1a1917><FONT face=Verdana>By way of more detail. My old engine was already bored out to .60 +. I had a crack between an exhaust valve and the cylinder so I decided to get a new block. Found the block and had it maganaflux to insure there were not cracks. Decided to reuse the pistons (.60), rods, crank and cam from the old engine. Had the block bored to match the pistons. Had new cam bearings pressed in, used new rings, rod bearings and main bearings. Had the engine balanced. Cleaned up the heads with a .008 cut. Resized the rods. Cut all seats. Installed exhaust seats. New pin bushings. Polish crank. Drilled intake for adjustable lifters. New adjustable lifters.

[Shadetree]

What a bummer! Sure hope it can be saved.

Shadetree

[40 Deluxe]

How long between assembly and fire-up? I've seen wrist pins seize more than once due to lack of initial lubrication. We always seem to slather the rods and mains and cam lobes with lots of slick'em but igmore the pins! Or, if it sat a long time after assembly, the oil on the pins seems to go away (Pin oil clearance is so small to start with, there's not much oil to begin with).

[Merc Cruzer]

Time between end of assembly and fire up...about 24 hours. I did pull the plugs and nothing. I drained the oil and nothing in the oil. My next step is to drop the steering linkage and pull the pan and that will tell me where I am going next.

[ford1]

before you get to excited, pull the pan and loosen all the rods try to turn engine, if no luck loosen all the mains and try to turn engine, if no luck my guess the pistons or rings are froze up

[JM 35 Sedan]

What was the actual piston to cylinder bore clearance after machining? What actual gap setting did you use for piston rings? Who is the piston manufacturer and what material are they made from? I'm thinking machined clearances could have been set too close. I hope the problem can be easily corrected and all turns out well for you. I know this has to be discouraging for you. I once had zero oil pressure at start up on a newly built FH engine and had to pull and dismantal most of the engine to find the problem and then check everything internal for possible damage. This was not my happiest Flathead V8ing memory but there was a happy ending. This engine is now running well and has gone over 6,000 miles.

[Mike in AZ]

pull the intake?? heads??....then see if it will turn over??....good luck...Mike

[Mike in AZ]

another thot.....did you have the block drilled and tapped for full-flow oil filter...or the 95% full-flow??...are you running the filter now, if you did??....Mike

[richard crow]

before you do any thing loosen the starter make sure it is not jamed the eng could of just stalled & when you went to start it the starter jamed it does happen onley takes a few min. to check.

[52merc]

drilled intake for ajustable lifters ?

[Mart]

Long shot - has the block been modified in the past for full flow filter (passage plugged) and you are running bypass or no filter and thought the passage was open like stock?

Cam bearings - oil drillings lined up?

I think I would be leaning towards careful disassembly, to isolate the cause, to prevent any further damage. Hopefully 99% of the motor is ok and can be reused once the problem is solved.

If it is a valve or lifter siezed then the engine will turn over almost 2 turns then stop and be able to wind back the same amount.

If the cam is siezed then the crank should move very slightly back and forth, just the play in the cam gears.

If all or some of the pistons are siezed, the crank might move very slightly, just the play in the bearings.

If a big end is tight, then very slight crank movement may be seen.

If the crank does not move at all, it is the main bearings that are stuck.

Good luck with it.

Mart.

[Mike51Merc]

I'd check out the mains and rod bearings. Could be a bit of debris got sucked through an oil passage and jammed one up.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Merc Cruiser, everybody is making a guess, let us know what you find. My guess is you have seazed a rod bearing. Walt

[allford]

Check that starter

[Jack E/NJ]

Lawson Cox>>>Try to crank it again after it cools down.>>>

Did I miss Merc Cruzer's response to Lawson's suggestion? This is probably the first thing I'd try.

Jack E/NJ

[David J]

Ditto on this . And to add we had a racing motor once that did this and the culprit in that case was skirt to wall clearance set for cast pistons and forged pistons used instead . The motor folks can explain this better than me but it DEFINATELY locked it up just like what you are describing . When it cooled down it would turn again . This probably isn't your problem but it is something to add to your list . Let us know watcha find . David J

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

Lawson Cox>>>Try to crank it again after it cools down.>>>

Did I miss Merc Cruzer's response to Lawson's suggestion? This is probably the first thing I'd try.

Jack E/NJ

[Halvor]

You have two problems..One the oil pressure gauge does not work, and seconfd the oil in the pan is not circulating.so the pump is bad..

[Merc Cruzer]

The answer is Main bearing: the rear bearing was fine, the center bearing was toast and the front bearing was about to go.

[Bruce Lancaster]

So...autopsy must continue to cause.
Do note that oil route to rear bearing differs from that to other bearings. I would next yank cam timing gear and see if the gallery plug is installed...

[Merc Cruzer]

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Bruce:
Yes the galley plug is installed...I took over 300 pictures and videos during the rebuild and I do have that picture....oil pressure was 45 lbs at 30 mph

[Mart]

Ouch!

Can't suggest anything other that what has already been said. Do you think (other than the rear bearing) the bearings had any oil other than assembly lube?

If the rear bearing is ok, the pump must be ok.

Checked the passages at the rear of the block? (see my previous reply - it's a long shot but would cause the failure you have experienced.)

Mart.

[Andy]

It is hard to clean the main oil line. The fuel pump bushing is in the way. I made a special driver to knock it thru to the cam bore. I cleaned the passage with a wire brush and oily rags.I suspect some blockage in the line or around the bushing. You do have the bushing installed? That will drop the pressure. I suspect a blockage rather than a leak.

[Russ/40]

Aside from a possible lubrication problem, consider a bent crank.

[Merc Cruzer]

Andy:

Yes the fuel pump bushing is installed. I cleaned out the oil passage with long wire brushes, then follow up with gun cleaning rags on the bore rods soaked in solvent. Actually I thought the oil pressure was fine....book says 57 lbs at 40 mph, mine was 45 lbs at 30 mph

[FlatheadTed]

I would have thought the rear main would have gone first if it was a lack of of oil since it lubes it first.

[Chris Nelson]

I had a problem not too disimilar. I lost oil pressure due to the new camshaft breaking at the gear that drives the oil pump. The engine ran like a dream, but the pump was not turning.

[GOSFAST]

Just would like to place a "tip" here for all following this post...

when rebuilding these "Flatties" you MUST have the shop remove the crank plugs and clean the throws thoroughly. You will usually always find build-up and debri "caked" up in there. It's worse also if there were any spun bearings previously, if left as-is, the material finds it's way back into the fresh rebuild and just MAY cause the problem mentioned here.

"Boiling" the crank will NOT clean this area!

Not saying it is the issue here, but it definitely needs attention!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. We drill & tap EVERY crank throw, whether Ford or Merc, for some 3/8" NPT pipe plugs, this is done prior to balancing the unit!

[David J]

Did anyone check the line bore ? Did you plastigauge the mains ? I see it is a replacement block and maybe something happened in the past to it . Seems odd for the rear to be fine - the middle toast and the front going . Also look at how the front is only bad on one end . . Curiosity is gaining momentum on thissun . Good luck . David J

[Kahuna]

1) As said before, was that block drilled for the 95% oil filter system and then not hooked up?
2) Were the oil holes from cam to crank checked for alignment?

My guess is #1

[Merc Cruzer]

Kahuna:

1. yes...both holes were then pluged to be used at a later date.

2. Not sure what your are asking.

[rotorwrench]

Modifications carried out on the oil system have to be well sorted out to make sure the oil gets to all passages as required. If the plugs aren't put in the correct locations, there can be a BIG problem. All the bearings surfaces above and in front of the rear main bearing depend on it.

Kerby

[Merc Cruzer]

Are you saying that due to the modification I now need to install the 95% oil filter system?

[Gumpy]

I agree check the starter before you do anything pull it out....bendix could be stuck on flywheel....happened to me once!

[Merc Cruzer]

Gumpy:

Thank you, that will be the first thing I do....you could be right!

Thanks for the humor, the only good thing I found so far was, it is sure a joy working on a totaly clean engine!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rotorwrench]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Are you saying that due to the modification I now need to install the 95% oil filter system?

It might be a question about what plug to remove in order for the modified system to work without being connected. There is a diagram in this thread from the flathead techno site. www.flatheadv8.org/filter.htm

If the plug that's installed in the cross passage is not removed the oil can't get to the main feed line if the filter system is not installed as intended. If the internal plug was removed then disreguard.

Kerby

[George/Maine]

If you still have the other engine check the front and middle caps and my guess they got mixed.Maybe you can get a .040 under bearing.

[Merc Cruzer]

rotowrench:

When I had it drilled for the 95% filter, it was because the block was out of the car! I had them block it off for now as I was going to use the origional system and later put the 95% filter system on. When I go to tear it down I will have to check to see if the grub screw is in the passage.....haven't pulled the rod caps off yet...stopped when I found the center main fried.

[36tbird]

"2) Were the oil holes from cam to crank checked for alignment?"

Kahuna asked this question and you replied that you did not understand what he was asking.

Kahuna is a buddy of mine and it is interesting that we both must have had the same ideas this afternoon while he was posting. I was out, putting on the pan for a 59A that I have rebuilt and thinking about your thread and wondering the same thing, kinda. "Who installed your cam bearings and did that person get the holes in the cam bearings aligned north/south?" That is, the progression of the oil is from the pump up to the tube running in the lifter valley (never mind about the oil filter at this point) down to the cam bearings from holes from that tube to them, then down to the main bearings from cam bearing holes and troughs cut in the bearings. The holes in the cam bearings are aligned north/south in the block relative to up/down. So, you could have great oil pressure because it is measured before the oil goes to the cam bearings but the oil is not being allowed to migrate to the 1st and 2nd mains. As Bruce pointed out, the rear main gets oil from differently so the third cam bearing not aligned is not as critical for the rear main.

[Merc Cruzer]

George/Maine:

Checked the bearings when they came in....all were .030's. I just went down and checked the old block...nothing mixed with the new block. I will check line bore when it is dissembled again.

[Merc Cruzer]

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36bird:

Wish I could tell you for sure, as they were done by the machine shop...but I cann't...I willl look when I tear it down again...I am making a list of things to check...feel free to add to the list.

[Merc Cruzer]

36bird;

Many of my pictures are too big to post, so I took a picture of one on my screen..I think this naswers yours and Kahuna's question...

[OLD...BILL]

I think your going to find the ( add it plug ) in the passage, that was drilled for the 95 % filtering system, see the diagram in rotowrench therad it is called; "the 7/16 allen head set screw," if it is in place the oil goes out to filter ands pressure gage and returns to cam and the two main bearings, with no oil filter in service, the out let is pluged, oil stays in the pump shaft / bore area and goes to the rear main ONLY.... this is sad.... We may all learn from it, ..hope this helps, sorry....OLD....BILL

[Merc Cruzer]

I think you are right....if so then if it prevents another engine failure, then it was worth it....

[Ronnie]

This a completed filter system in his case the grub screw must not be there as he doesn't have a spin on installed.

[john stimac]

I agree with MART'S long shot. Had the same thing happen to me on a 8ba. someone put a plug in the filter by pass area at the rear of the block, resulted in no oil pressure at the front of the motor.

[phartman]

Take the motor down to the Animal House fraternity and let D-Day have a whack at it. As for you? Follow Bluto's advice....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepFO4psgKE

[David J]

The " after the road trip " scene . Good stuff . Merc Cruiser , It takes a good person to be civil & understanding in a situation like this and for that I think you're allright . Good luck and hopefully most parts will be OK . David J PS to all - The depth of knowledge on this site is absolutely amazing

Originally Posted by phartman

Take the motor down to the Animal House fraternity and let D-Day have a whack at it. As for you? Follow Bluto's advice....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepFO4psgKE

[Barlea]

The system used by Ford Canada in WWll engines and as option until '51 did not use a grub screw to block the horizontal connecting passage. The outboard vertical oil port used a special brass fitting with a 1 1/4" long thinwall tube projecting from it's bottom that blocked the horizontal passage when it was in place. If the full flow filter was to be disconnected, the brass fittings that connected to the flexible 3/8" ID hose would be removed for the pipe plugs to go in, and the passage would be open for either the use of the partial flow filter, or no filter. Since all Ford Canada blocks had the extra inboard oil port, dealers could easily add or remove the filter and special fitting. ..B.

[Zeke...PA]

As stated if the block was drilled for 95% filtering and the filter was not installed or a jumper used, oil channel starved of oil. Zeke

[GOSFAST]

I'll place a couple photos of the block below for anyone who hasn't actually seen one finished with the oiling mod.

It is a very effective system when "plumbed" correctly.

Most info up here is correct, the "internal" (redirecting) plug must be left out without the filter in the system. This is how we dynoed a recent build, upon delivery the customer installed the "by-pass" plug to get the oil supply to the filter.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. This recent build runs with 30#+ idle pressure and 50#+ at cruising speeds!

[JM 35 Sedan]

Merc Cruzer, This was certainly a tough way for you to have to learn about this. I hope your engine damage is minimal and you can get it fixed and back on the road soon. I also hope others, including myself, will remember this and not make the same mistake. One thing I plan to do is take that picture that's been posted here (and is in my files) and add a note warning not to make this modification without including the oil filter. Please keep us posted on the outcome of your engine. Good luck!

[Ralph Moore]

I've never seen the system installed before, most books tell you how, but leave out the pics. Do you have any pics without the fittings? Did you machine a flat on the block before drilling the hole in the passage? Also it looks like you used a larger pipe thread size on all the passages. I know the horizontal one would have to be larger in order to get the grub plug in place(run a tap in the passage). If you do this to an 8BA, you would not use the lower block return, right?

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by Barlea

The system used by Ford Canada in WWll engines and as option until '51 did not use a grub screw to block the horizontal connecting passage. The outboard vertical oil port used a special brass fitting with a 1 1/4" long thinwall tube projecting from it's bottom that blocked the horizontal passage when it was in place. If the full flow filter was to be disconnected, the brass fittings that connected to the flexible 3/8" ID hose would be removed for the pipe plugs to go in, and the passage would be open for either the use of the partial flow filter, or no filter. Since all Ford Canada blocks had the extra inboard oil port, dealers could easily add or remove the filter and special fitting. ..B.

Are these fittings available today?

[Barlea]

The fitting can be made by modifying one of the brass fittings that are used to change from the 1/4" pipe thread (3/8" ID) oil ports to the 3/8" ID flexible pressure line to the full-flow filter base. Use a drill press to run a 3/8" bit slightly into the bottom of the fitting and a short piece of thinwall brass tubing can be soldered in place. This is a slip-fit 1 1/4" down the vertical oil passage and will be long enough to pass the horizontal passage and isolate the "out" from the "in". No grub screw surprises. ..B.

[dude]

I agree with Mr Crow ,and allford, Had wrong starter plate on a engine that would lockup. car and truck and some Merc are diff.

[Kahuna]

Essentially, all that needs to be done is "jumper" around the 95% system to avoid the problem you encountered. I'm out of town at the moment or I could send you a picture.
Sorry that you had to learn this the HARD way.
Best of luck
Jim

[Barlea]

Certainly a jumper hose will work around the grub screw if you know the grub screw is there, but my point was that the way Ford engineered the 95% full flow, you would need to remove the fittings to plug the ports, and in doing so you remove the block. ..B.

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by Barlea

The fitting can be made by modifying one of the brass fittings that are used to change from the 1/4" pipe thread (3/8" ID) oil ports to the 3/8" ID flexible pressure line to the full-flow filter base. Use a drill press to run a 3/8" bit slightly into the bottom of the fitting and a short piece of thinwall brass tubing can be soldered in place. This is a slip-fit 1 1/4" down the vertical oil passage and will be long enough to pass the horizontal passage and isolate the "out" from the "in". No grub screw surprises. ..B.

Thanks, I had been thinking of doing something like that rather than drilling and tapping that horizontal passage. Just hadn't tried to put it together. Big help.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Barlea

The system used by Ford Canada in WWll engines and as option until '51 did not use a grub screw to block the horizontal connecting passage. The outboard vertical oil port used a special brass fitting with a 1 1/4" long thinwall tube projecting from it's bottom that blocked the horizontal passage when it was in place. If the full flow filter was to be disconnected, the brass fittings that connected to the flexible 3/8" ID hose would be removed for the pipe plugs to go in, and the passage would be open for either the use of the partial flow filter, or no filter. Since all Ford Canada blocks had the extra inboard oil port, dealers could easily add or remove the filter and special fitting. ..B.

Barlea, Is there any way that you could do a sketch and/or take some close up digital pictures of the actual parts you are describing and post them here? I'm probably a little dense, but I'm having a difficult time understanding what you are talking about in your post quoted above. Thank you

[BillM]

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Here is a picture from the Canadian manual. The fitting in question is the one on the left at the bottom of the two oil lines.
The manual can be found here (Post #149): http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...66#post4590066

[Ronnie]

This will work

2¢more

R

[JM 35 Sedan]

BiilM & Ronnie, Thanks for posting pics and other info. I understand better now. Also copied into my files. Thank you

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

The answer is Main bearing: the rear bearing was fine, the center bearing was toast and the front bearing was about to go.

Mr. Merc, I think you said that you went 2 miles before it stuck, if the oil pressure was low, to none, you wouldn't have made it two miles. Looking at the bearings you posted, those bearings with out a doubt, did NOT have enough clearance. The one that has a hard rub on it, is a dead give away. Also the one that is smeared. Bearings always tell the story. Herm.

[Mike in AZ]

rear bearing got oil....other bearings, etc. did not because of the oil gallery being plugged with that horizontal plug for the 95% full-flow bilter....Mike

[42ford]

I am somewhat confused. I have a new block. I guess is was a Canadian block. There are 3 3/8 npt holes on the back of the bell just like several of these pics and diagrams show. What I did was to install the oil sending unit on the top of the small boss that has one on the side also. I then installed the line to the oil filter ( original type that mounts on the head with 3 head bolts) I ran the return line to the oil pan boss as in the original 42 - 48 pans. I have about 400 miles and get great oil pressure. Is that OK? Would I gain anything by moving the return line to the unused boss on the bell ? I bought the block in a crate from Joblot in the 70s and installed all new Ford parts that were purchased from them at the same time. The salesman that they had at time was great and told me how to do it
Thanks,
Dick

[42ford]

At one time there was a man selling what must have been the grub screw. He was a clu member and lived on one of the islands of the northern Ca coast.

[Ralph Moore]

So will this system work with a canister style filter? I would like to keep mine traditional looking and plan to put a firewall mounted filter. A spin on would be way out of place.
I like the O-ring style plug, you could put your pressure gage off a Y fitting at the block as well.
Does anyone have the specs on that type plug?

[Ronnie]

What kind of canister a by pass set up?

[Ralph Moore]

Well, it's off a 1950's army truck, but similar to the original Ford units except firewall mounted. I'll post a pic as soon as I can.

[GOSFAST]

I just want to add, while the block is being machined, it's fairly simple to get all the passageways drilled and tapped. Not a real big deal!

This eliminates that "special" adapter with the "O" ring built in!

Once you machine the "top" access holes you still have the factory location for the pressure guage. You end up with 3 functional holes and ALL are at the rear and pretty much out-of-sight for the most part.

With respect to the issue here, the machine shop should have explained the function of the entire procedure AND made it clear to the customer just how to set up (plumb) the system??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a few shots of the lines and the filter mounted in the Merc! You cant see the line for the guage, but it is just below the 2 filter lines below/behind the left side head!

[John Kennedy]

This is all really great info! Would the 59A be the same? Mine's a '48 block.

[Ralph Moore]

Here's the filter I plan to use(will be chromed eventually). and John I have a 59 block and it has a boss on the back of the block. Looks like the spot for the extra hole for the full flow system.

[Henry/Kokomo]

Ralph - You're right about the boss being the right place to drill the extra hole. Subject to more informed opinions, I would think the filter canister you plan to use would need to have larger inlet and outlet ports installed for a full flow setup. If you're going to have it chromed, that would cover the welding used in the modification. Yet another $.02 worth.

[OLD...BILL]

YES it can be made to work BUT..B..U..T.. John Kennedy, yes; on the 59 block works best, Ralph Moore, yes can be made to work, Henry Kokomo, Is right larger fittings, in and out "" BUT "" the filter elment, it's self come in question, could it stand the pressure of a full flow system ?? Henrys original felter was a "drip system" at best, but it dose work as I change the oil and filter on the old 9N, tractor it is full of crud, and the oil is clean...and I fullie understand how you want to keep the under the hood looking original, I try to do the same, and some chrome too, don't give up uo the 95 % full flow, and Hey John " JM ..35..Sedan .. are you going to jump in here and show us how and where you mounted you full flow on the lower, left side of the engine, down low and out of sight. also in cool air flow area too. he is not dense, and an engineer, may me slow on house rules, but once he see it, it gets fixed,,, hee.. hee ...I do hope we can all learn for this... sad. ....OLD...BILL

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Ralph Moore

Well, it's off a 1950's army truck, but similar to the original Ford units except firewall mounted. I'll post a pic as soon as I can.

To use that system as is with larger lines would not have any bypass system included which would not be a smart idea when you filter before the bearings.If the filter became plugged and did its job then you would suffer oil starvation not what you want.A compromise would be a spin on filter disguised inside which already exists and looks not too bad but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
My2¢

R

[John R]

I searched my files of the old Fordbarn and found a reference (several years old) to a fellow, Bryan Buckley ("49merc") in Powell River, British Columbia who made the Canadian-style fitting to convert to "full flow" oiling. His email is (was): [email protected] This info was posted by Fordbarner "Scotty." If someone follows up on this, let us know if its still available.

[Barlea]

Bryan's plug with o-ring, illustrated further back in the thread, uses a fitting threaded into the horizontal port with a stem to bridge across the vertical passage without blocking it. It accomplishes the same thing as the fitting in the Ford Canada system which uses an extension tube from above to block the horizontal passage. Either work well on a Ford Canada block because the inboard vertical port was drilled and tapped at the factory. ..B.

[Ralph Moore]

A lot of machining required, but a spin on, hidden in the cannister, would be a trick setup.

[Kahuna]

Contact 36Tbird here. I think he's making those hidden ones

[Ronnie]

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Originally Posted by Ralph Moore

A lot of machining required, but a spin on, hidden in the cannister, would be a trick setup.

Here is one
http://www.thehotrodcompany.com/shop...duct_id=obholu

R

[ajohn]

Simply amazing!I had a similar experience with my 801 Powermaster Ford tractor.The starter drive gear came in three pieces and wedged the flywheel.Same simptoms,easy fix.

[36tbird]

Kahuna is my west coast rep for the Pigpen oil filter conversion. (Pigpen was my Navy fighter call sign.)

Anyway, I do have the goofy idea to try to make these but I have yet to test one. I have two almost ready to go with the engines to test on but many other projects are higher priority right now. If I ever get into it, it will have to be on an exchange basis because I do not have a very big supply of canisters.

They are labor intensive to build. To get a good cut on the bottom of the canisters, I first cut a hole big enough to put a boring bar with a cutter in it on my lathe. I tried to hand cut out bottoms of the canisters and they came out all jagged and uneven so that is why I use the lathe. You obviously have to cut from the inside out because of the mounting tabs which are treacherous when spinning around on the lathe.

I found some solid aluminum cylinders that I cut into about 1.25" slugs. I machine those for the oil filters to spin onto and fit into the canisters. Of course, they are drilled out the sides for the oil fittings.

Fitting all of the pieces together is sometimes tricky. In my short experience with trying this project, there seems to be a lot of disparity between the canisters, maybe due to wear and tear over the years.

I'll try to post pics soon of the prototype. Some may remember the engine I posted about where I did an old school home rebuild. I don't have a test stand or an available car around to put that engine in to start. I've come up with the idea that I am going to spin it with the plugs out using the starter to get the oil pressure up and lubricating. I modified that engine for the 95% filtration and put a gauge bunge on the back to block side of the filter. I figure that will tell me if the oil is going thru the filter OK. Stay tuned.

[Ralph Moore]

Thanks Ronnie! Now that's a sweet setup. It doesn't say which filter it uses, and if it is available polished, but I gotta have one of those.

[Ralph Moore]

I forgot to mention, I picked up another block yesterday, had one 8CM head, other missing, and someone took the crank out years ago(left pistons and rods). I thought I found a good Merc block. It didn't look too bad, but had been sitting outside for a long time. Well I was dissapointed when I pulled the one head and found massive rust in two cylinders. So much that when I flaked it off I discovered deep pits in the cylinder walls.
I think it's too far gone for sleeving, but it will at least let me practice drilling the hole and tapping for the full flow oil system.

[36tbird]

Thought I better go out to take some pics to maintain some degree of credibility about my oil filter conversion. Right now I am making them for a Motorcraft FL-1A to fit and that is the bottom of one seen in the pictures. Tried to show an example of the slug that I turn to cut the groove in and how it fits in the canister. Again, I have not tested this yet but oil in should equal oil out. When I do my test, you can see the fitting I made where I am going to put in a direct reading oil pressure gauge.

[42ford]

Hi
Still looking for an answer to my previous post about my Canadian block. I ran the oil filter line from the boss with the 2 fittings on it. It runs from there to toe original type oil filter mounted on the front of the drivers side head. The return line runs fr4om the bottom of the filter housing to the fitting on the oil pan. The other hole has a plug in it.
I have about 400 miles on the engine now. Any suggestions?
thanks,
Dick

[36tbird]

42, went back and reviewed your posted question and at least as far as I am concerned, not sure what your question is. From what I can glean, it sounds like you have the stock oil filter set up and if that is so, your only concern would be to make sure you have the proper bypass fitting installed on the inlet side of the filter. Think of it this way, Ford put those filters on there as a marketing ploy, IMO and they are designed just to siphon off a little of the oil as it travels up from the pump to the the routing throughout the engine. It siphoned off some of the oil, filtered it and returned that oil to the sump. If you don't have that bypass fitting, too much oil will be taken through the filter and returned directly to the pan. Hope that helps. Others smarter than me can clarify more.

[Zeke...PA]

Ralph, had the same problem with an 8BA block I purchased, this block cleaned up at 3 5/16, used Offenhauser pistons from Speedway, Zeke

[52merc]

a friend of minehas been running a oils system like that for a couple of years now exactly the same except his old cannister is chromed it works real well trev

[42ford]

Yes I have the restriction fitting installed. Yes you answered my question, thank you. I was worried that the block, when manufactured, was sold with out something like the grub plug. I did not think that was the case as I have good oil pressure and if the oil just went in and out, I would not have any oil pressure. As far as needing to filter more oil, I only drive about 1000 miles a year and change the oil every year.

[GOSFAST]

This turned out to be an interesting post.

I would add that it would be beneficial to maintain the I.D. of all the passageway's and not have any sections "undersize" for lack of a better word!

Some recommendatiuons here, if I'm reading correctly, would be to use rubber hose with clamps for retention!

You really don't want clamps & hoses exposed to 50#/60# oil pressure, much better choice to use "AN" type fittings if possible! They will NOT come off during operation!

Below is a closer shot of the mod showing the diameter of the I.D. on the "AN" type fittings! It maintains the integrity of the system.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's the closer shot of both 1/2" NPT adapters! The actual opening at the flare is approximately .400", enough to eliminate any restrictions, especially with any remote filter setup.

[Mike in AZ]

42ford...if you have been running your setup without any problems, i would say all is fine....you don't have a plug in the horizontal channel and your setup is per original....does your oil pressure rise when the engine is revved, etc??....i don't "think" you have any problems, so enjoy your car....Mike

[41panelmark]

So I have a question. I have a fresh engine with around 250 mile on it that uses the old style filter set up mounted to the driver's side head. Going down the road I have 60+ pounds according to the gauge on the dash. When I am at idle that reading goes way down to 10. I do not have a restricter in the line. The line comes out at the oil pressure switch and goes into the filter canister. From there it goes up to the front of the timing cover. Forgot to put the line on after a distributor adjustment one time. Pumped out almost the entire crankcase worth of oil in about 15 seconds.

If I put a restricter in the line will I be safe? Do I need one?

[George/Maine]

With the orginal filter i guess it feed to much and was slowed down and return to the lower plug to pan.My 8ba i didn,t put the filter back on pluged the lines and works fine.Today with computer someone says i filter 95% of my oil and now the word is out,boy i want to do that.Now lets see how many more motors will be burnt up.In the day 2000 mile oil change was good enought.

[Barlea]

By-pass filter needs 1/4" ID lines, full flow needs 3/8" ID lines, according to Henry's engineers. Since the oil pump is a metering pump, it will pump exactly the same volume every revolution regardless if part of the circuit is larger or through a filter cannister etc. You can't encourage a gear pump to pump more volume, you have to spin it faster or make it bigger. ..B.

[Mart]

Originally Posted by 41panelmark

So I have a question. I have a fresh engine with around 250 mile on it that uses the old style filter set up mounted to the driver's side head. Going down the road I have 60+ pounds according to the gauge on the dash. When I am at idle that reading goes way down to 10. I do not have a restricter in the line. The line comes out at the oil pressure switch and goes into the filter canister. From there it goes up to the front of the timing cover. Forgot to put the line on after a distributor adjustment one time. Pumped out almost the entire crankcase worth of oil in about 15 seconds.

If I put a restricter in the line will I be safe? Do I need one?

This is a bypass filter setup, right?
There should be a 1/16" approx restrictor in the line, to limit the amount of oil being taken away from the bearings etc. The restrictor is built into the fitting as the oil comes from the engine, if there is no restrictor, you should plug the bore of the fitting and drill it 1/16".

The above is irrelevant for full flow systems, only good for bypass systems.

[Ralph Moore]

Zeke,
Here's what this one looks like. I haven't measured it yet, but some of the pits are pretty deep.

So, anyway to use lines for the oil system that would look a little more period correct than AN fittings?

[Merc Cruzer]

Mart:

Do you have a picture:

There should be a 1/16" approx restrictor in the line, to limit the amount of oil being taken away from the bearings etc. The restrictor is built into the fitting as the oil comes from the engine, if there is no restrictor, you should plug the bore of the fitting and drill it 1/16".

[John Kennedy]

I apologize for still being confused here, but on my 1948 59a block, i found no grub screw, but a spring loaded valve. I see the exterior boss where I need to drill and thread, looks to be angled inward some.

Should I drill and tap this, and then block off the two passages with a grub screw?
And what is meant by a 95% system? 5% gets filtered? or 5% does not?

[George/Maine]

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Post 41 by rotorwrench tells it the best.
I didn,t know what was being said.
I guess it would be like a house the first floor toilet "main bearing" gets 5% and every thing on 2nd floor gets filted.
Or like those filters you put on the fosset for drinking.

[John Kennedy]

Thanks George, I missed that before. Saved and printed. I will be running electric pump, so I guess that cam bearing gets installed 90 degrees rotated.

[Mart]

The way the oil pump is set up in the flathead, the oil pump feeds the rear main directly. The rest of the engine is fed from the gallery. When you tap into the gallery and introduce a full flow filtering system, you filter the supply to everything except the rear main. Because not everything gets filtered oil, it's dubbed a 95% system. It's not an exact number, just a name.

On the subject of the bypass filter: I'm sorry I do not have a pic of my restricted fitting.

Mart.

[Rich Overton]

All of the above are good suggestions. You say that you pulled the plugs. Did you try to turn the engine over with the plugs out? I rebuilt a 350 ( please forgive me guys ) Chevy for a boat about 12 years ago, took her for a spin and seized in about 20 minutes. Cracked head filled the cylinder with water!

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by Barlea

By-pass filter needs 1/4" ID lines, full flow needs 3/8" ID lines, according to Henry's engineers. Since the oil pump is a metering pump, it will pump exactly the same volume every revolution regardless if part of the circuit is larger or through a filter cannister etc. You can't encourage a gear pump to pump more volume, you have to spin it faster or make it bigger. ..B.

Barler, how about those Canada blocks that came from the factory or army enginers with full flow filters, that just had the 1/4in. pipe thread holes like the the std. engine. Walt

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by Ralph Moore

Zeke,
Here's what this one looks like. I haven't measured it yet, but some of the pits are pretty deep.

So, anyway to use lines for the oil system that would look a little more period correct than AN fittings?

Yikes!

[Barlea]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

Barler, how about those Canada blocks that came from the factory or army enginers with full flow filters, that just had the 1/4in. pipe thread holes like the the std. engine. Walt

Yes, the military engines and the post-war Ford Canada V8s with the full flow option used the 1/4" pipe thread oil ports, but remember that 1/4" pipe thread is bigger than 1/4", and a 1/4" pipe thread fitting for a 3/8" ID pressure hose or pipe will provide a 3/8"ID through it. The drawing from the '46 Ford Mercury Monarch parts manual shows the type available through '48, with 3/8" ID hard lines, and the later type available until the end of '51 used a different cannister and 3/8" flexible lines. Both used a similar fitting into the outboard oil port for the pressure line to the filter. ..B.

[Ralph Moore]

I'm planning on putting the motor in this car. It's free for the taking, I just have to get it home without my wife seeing it.LOL

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Barlea

Yes, the military engines and the post-war Ford Canada V8s with the full flow option used the 1/4" pipe thread oil ports, but remember that 1/4" pipe thread is bigger than 1/4", and a 1/4" pipe thread fitting for a 3/8" ID pressure hose or pipe will provide a 3/8"ID through it. The drawing from the '46 Ford Mercury Monarch parts manual shows the type available through '48, with 3/8" ID hard lines, and the later type available until the end of '51 used a different cannister and 3/8" flexible lines. Both used a similar fitting into the outboard oil port for the pressure line to the filter. ..B.

I have weatherhead 1/4" male pipe to 3/8" id barbed hose fittings in my shop they have a .250" passage through them not 3/8". Impossible to have a 3/8" barb fitting with a 3/8" passage for a hose with a 3/8" id. Id and od would be the same ??

R

[Barlea]

These are not barbed fittings, they are for hard lines and the later ones fit up to manufactured flex lines, the ID is 3/8" or very nearly so, when the bottom of the brass fitting is drilled with a 3/8" bit it only takes a very slight amount to allow the 3/8" thinwall tube to slip in. The tube fits into the oil port the same as the factory fitting to block the horizontal passage except the factory fitting was machined in one piece with the same dimensions. Bear in mind the factory designed the oil passages with ample size for the flow that the pump would produce and a slight restriction would not cause any constipation to worry about. ..B.

[Ronnie]

You are missing the point the 1/4" pipe end has .250" inside bore hole.
1/4" pipe od is .495".
A 3/8" hole is .375" difference of .120"
.060" wall thickness. This does not take into consideration the thread depth?
1/4" pipe is 1/4" pipe
R

[36tbird]

I think you guys have been watching "Days of Thunder" too much. That is, Robert Duvall talking about hiding increased oil quantity in bigger lines. I can't wait to see the NASCAR flathead.

[Jack E/NJ]

Now Lou. Doncha know a lotta us old geezers have forgotten about the age-old suggestion of simply changing oil every few thousand miles might actually be enough to keep an old flathead from havin' a stroke or seizure? So due to our fading memory we're more or less forced to get anal about dressing up and sometimes plugging up our beloved flatties with fancy plumbing and chrome-plated filters. Geez, I thought all old geezers knew that! 8^)

Jack E/NJ

[Barlea]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

You are missing the point the 1/4" pipe end has .250" inside bore hole.
1/4" pipe od is .495".
A 3/8" hole is .375" difference of .120"
.060" wall thickness. This does not take into consideration the thread depth?
1/4" pipe is 1/4" pipe
R

OK, just measured the Ford fitting, ID of the fitting and the tube from the bottom is .308 and the OD of the tube looks to be .372 so about .030 wall thickness of the tube. ..B.

[Ronnie]

Thanks Bar

That must be a real good forged fitting of some sort.

R

[Gary in La.]

Here are pictures of the stock Ford oil inlet restrictor fitting. The hole is 1/16" .0625.

[Merc Cruzer]

Just as an update: Cause: plug in the passage way. I got lucky and rebuild is to have the crank polished, new gaskets and rod and main bearings....plus alot of cleaning.

[Mart]

Lucky it siezed quickly before a lot of damage was done.
The blocked port (for (almost) full flow filtration) has caught a couple of people out at least. Dare say you won't be the last.

Mart.

[36tbird]

Merc Cruzer, I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I just want to clarify. You had the plug installed as per the 95% modification but you did not have the filter plumbed in? Or, did you have the filter plumbed in stock wise, returning the oil to the pan? Maybe this was covered, but with 7 pages of posts and my having the attention span of a parakeet, I missed it.

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by 36tbird

Merc Cruzer, I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I just want to clarify. You had the plug installed as per the 95% modification but you did not have the filter plumbed in? Or, did you have the filter plumbed in stock wise, returning the oil to the pan? Maybe this was covered, but with 7 pages of posts and my having the attention span of a parakeet, I missed it.

Hi "36", just to clear it all up, you must remove the "plug" IF you do not have a filter in the system. The plug, when it is in place, stops the oil from reaching the main galley and the rear main gets oil only!

When you use a filter in the line you need to have the plug in position in order to direct the oil to the filter on one side, in other words, the oil pressure "hits" the plug is "forced" to pass through the filter, after the oil passes through the filter it returns to the opposite side of the plug and continues on to the main passageways!

I've only done the modification to 2 blocks as of today, one is still be built and the other has been in the Merc for a few months now! Works flawlessly so far!

(Add) You must maintain the integrity of the oiling system by keeping all the passageways equal in size, not good to "step" down any orifices!!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. The one that has been running with this modification, runs with 35# pressure hot, idling, and 55#/60# hot "cruising"! This is with the standard "M-19" pump, no mod's to the pump, also with .003" clearance on the mains and .002" on the rods! This is a 4.250" Eagle crank/Scat rod, 292" stroker! Also has NO temp issues!

[36tbird]

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Hi Gosfast, thanks. I understand how it all works because like you I have modified blocks, 4 so far with two of them for the full filter system that requires the plumbing run on the outside of the block inside of the flywheel. (I posted pics earlier in this thread of a modified block with the spin on oil filter conversion I am making for them.) I am currently running my 8BA with the full filtration and mine has about the same numbers as yours except the hot idle drops to 10 to 15. That is probably due to the 1/16" hole I drilled in the oil tube plug behind the cam gear for a little extra oil directed to the timing gears as per Mike Davidson's flathead book.

So, like you, I understand the system, I was questioning exactly what set up Merc Cruzer had when he discovered the problem. Did he have not have a filter on it or if he did, was it plumbed like stock routing the oil back to the pan? Sorry for any confusion.

[Gumpy]

MC==glad you will be back on the road soon and are able to repair it...have fun with ur car...i had one of those in 1980...alot of fun!!

[Merc Cruzer]

36bird and gofast:

The block was drilled for the 95% filter since it was out of the car for the rebuild (for use at a later date), but then plugged to use the standard configuration. Unfortunately the plug used to block the line when the 95% filter is in place was left in....thereby causing the oil starvation to the front and middle bearings. The interesting thing was that only the middle bearing seized, for some reason the front bearing was getting enough oil to remain functional.

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

36bird and gofast:

The block was drilled for the 95% filter since it was out of the car for the rebuild (for use at a later date), but then plugged to use the standard configuration. Unfortunately the plug used to block the line when the 95% filter is in place was left in....thereby causing the oil starvation to the front and middle bearings. The interesting thing was that only the middle bearing seized, for some reason the front bearing was getting enough oil to remain functional.

Hi "Merc", the center main is directly supporting 4 cylinders in the firing order, number's 2 & 3 and 6 & 7, the front main supports mostly the two front cylinders and partially the numbers 2 and 6. This causes more "loading" on the center main brg.

Not certain if you noticed also that the "Flattie" crank has an incorporated design from the early years that has now carried over to the "racing" BB Chev's!

The center main on the 3-main setup has "full" counterweights just like many of the aftermarket BB's now use! This keeps the shaft from "flexing" during normal use! Also aids in balancing the ass'y! Old "Henry" realized these counterweights were a necessity to "keep it all together"?

A few years back, around 1999, we did a circle-track Flathead that saw continous 4800 RPM runs, so we fabricated a "girdle" that "rested" on top of that center main and straddled it and tied the pan rails together along the outer edges to support the weak section of the "webbing" and the threads in the center of the casting. Engine still runs strong after some 11 or 12 years! A good friend of mine was running it on the stock car circuit up here in the Northeast!

(Add) I would like to add this also, if you are not running the stock fuel-pump pushrod you must at least block off that section of the block where the bushing is located! There will be a small internal leak at that area affecting the overall oil pressure! (See the photo below)

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Good luck with your repair, should go fine now! Just look at all the knowledge you and the others gained up here, priceless, really.

[36tbird]

Merc, I get it, the plug was in and you did not know it. But, what I am asking is, did you have the oil filter on the engine when it seized? If you did, was it set up for the stock configuration? That is, did the oil come up from the pump and go to the filter only to be returned to the pan while all the other oil could not go into the system because of the plug? None of this matters so long as you have it figured out and fixed. I'm just curious of the configuration you had when the failure arose. I see in your avatar a stock canister filter on your engine so I am just assuming (but seeking verification) that you tried to run your modified oil system engine with the plug in going thru the stock oil filter set up. After this I am out of ideas on how to ask this question.

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by GOSFAST

Hi "Merc", the center main is directly supporting 4 cylinders in the firing order, number's 2 & 3 and 6 & 7, the front main supports mostly the two front cylinders and partially the numbers 2 and 6. This causes more "loading" on the center main brg.

Not certain if you noticed also that the "Flattie" crank has an incorporated design from the early years that has now carried over to the "racing" BB Chev's!

The center main on the 3-main setup has "full" counterweights just like many of the aftermarket BB's now use! This keeps the shaft from "flexing" during normal use! Also aids in balancing the ass'y! Old "Henry" realized these counterweights were a necessity to "keep it all together"?

A few years back, around 1999, we did a circle-track Flathead that saw continous 4800 RPM runs, so we fabricated a "girdle" that "rested" on top of that center main and straddled it and tied the pan rails together along the outer edges to support the weak section of the "webbing" and the threads in the center of the casting. Engine still runs strong after some 11 or 12 years! A good friend of mine was running it on the stock car circuit up here in the Northeast!

(Add) I would like to add this also, if you are not running the stock fuel-pump pushrod you must at least block off that section of the block where the bushing is located! There will be a small internal leak at that area affecting the overall oil pressure! (See the photo below)

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Good luck with your repair, should go fine now! Just look at all the knowledge you and the others gained up here, priceless, really.

You will have pretty much the same oil flow out of that hole whether the pushrod is in or not, since the pushrod is not a tight fit. Doubt you would be able to measure any difference in pressure with or without the rod in. With the rod out, you'll get a lot more oil flying around in the valve chember though.

[Barlea]

The 95% full flow conversion seems to have been "invented" a few times, but the original design by the Ford engineers was well tested by at least five armies on our side, and if the slight decrease in diameter of the Ford fitting from the block oil port size caused a problem, it would have been simple for Ford to increase all the drilled oil passages in the block at any time in the more than ten years it was in use. Using the thimble type fitting pretty much solves any surprises, maybe years down the line, by a grub screw hiding. ..B.

[Merc Cruzer]

36bird:

If you did, was it set up for the stock configuration? That is, did the oil come up from the pump and go to the filter only to be returned to the pan while all the other oil could not go into the system because of the plug?

The answer is Yes and Yes

I see in your avatar a stock canister filter on your engine so I am just assuming (but seeking verification) that you tried to run your modified oil system engine with the plug in going thru the stock oil filter set up

Actually, I was running the fully original stock system, where the oil comes up from the pump to the stock filter and then is returned back to the oil pan. This system allows the oil that is not going to the filter to go through the opening in the block to the tube that feeds the front and center bearing along with the cam etc. The problem was that since the block was drilled for the 95% filter system that required a plug in the opening in the block to the tube that feeds the front and center bearing along with the cam etc. and the new hole drilled to allow for the return line of the 95% filter.
The pictures show the engine when I did a partial assembly and before I replaced the oil lines with new steel lines. You can also see the hole in the block that was not yet plugged (part of the modification to the block for the 95% filter system) and if you can imagine a plug in the oil passage way in the block from the feed line to the filter and the unplugged hole then you have the configuration when the engine seized.

The bottom line is that none of the system for the 95% filter was being used at the time of the engine failure....only the origional filter system was in use, but with a plug in the passage way (that should not have been there) to feed the cam and bearings.

[Merc Cruzer]

GOESFAST:

I am using the original fuel pump with an electric back up...

[Merc Cruzer]

36bird:

Had some time this morning so I thought I might do a partial assembly of the engine to show you the oil filter configuration at the time of the seizure. I have laid the grub screw on top of the block above the passageway of the blocked line....hope this explains the issue.

[42ford]

I have followed these post from the beginning and I have a couple of questions.
I have what is referred to as a Canadian block. It has three threaded holes on the bell.
The two on the left ( one vertical and one horizontal) have my oil press sender and the oil line to the old style filter. The other one has a pipe plug in it. It seems to work OK.
My question is why did Ford use a grub plug in the first place? On my block what was the other hole for? This block was NOS when I got it. Nobody drilled anything
Thanks
Dick

[flatjack9]

Ford did not use a grub screw. Barlea described the fitting that is used on the Canadian blocks back in post #54.

[36tbird]

Thanks Merc. Now, please put a 2X4 vertical support under the the front of that engine. I know that the 8BA's are not as susceptible to breaking, but they are still heavy old motors.

[tinmann]

A lot of valuable information has been shared in this thread. Thank you one and all.

[Carbroke]

How can you bore it .60 over and reuse the original pistons? Supposed to buy over-sized pistons to match.

Not sure why it siezed, because you haven't said what actually siezed yet. But I know you need to put bigger pistons back in.

[usered]

I had he same problem as couple of the other guys mentioned. The starter jammed into the flywheel and locked the motor up. I thought the same thing as you, the motor had seized. Just unbolted the starter and pulled it out a little and it released. For some reason I don't know why it happen a couple of times and then stoped.

Does anyone out there know why this hppens?

[El Rat]

Sounds like ring gap, or lack of.

[1937pickup]

I now know why I don't run a filter in May.

[bluardun]

Let me take a guess too.
Try and turn the engine backwards. If it's a standard shift, put it in 2nd and push the car backwards.
Maybe with a little luck, you have a nut, or something that was dropped into the engine while assembling.
Let us know what you find.
best of luck

[Mart]

Check the date, guys, this problem was diagnosed and fixed over a year ago!

Ran without a filter after the plug fitted for 95% filtration.

Mart.

[rgtharley]

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Piston ring end clearance could be the culprit too. Like JM asks, I too wonder what the piston to bore clearance is, and whether the ring end gap may be too tight. The rule of thumb is .004 per inch of bore. I have witnessed freshly rebuilt engines come to an abrupt halt too, as soon as they get up to temperature.
Good luck finding out what it is, and let us know what you find as you disassemble.
Bob

[Ol' Ron]

This is the biggest fear we builders have. We try to check everything but every once in a while you miss something. The 294 won't be run until late February, and I wonder if I forgot anything. Last year a carb screw came loose and broke a piston in a test engine. Instant bang, but we keep going. Hope it's something simple, take care.

[Step-down]

I stopped using silicone caulking on my gaskets on my Harley motors years ago just for that reason... It clogged a oil port ...good by stroker motor......

[Russ/40]

EVERYONE, look at the date of the posts. This is an old June 2011 thread. Start at the beginning and you'll get the whole story.

[8CM]

Ford one has it right

[JM 35 Sedan]

I remember this post well but don't recall a final report from Merc Cruzer saying that he got this engine repaired and back on the road.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Carbroke

How can you bore it .60 over and reuse the original pistons? Supposed to buy over-sized pistons to match.

Not sure why it siezed, because you haven't said what actually siezed yet. But I know you need to put bigger pistons back in.

Originally Posted by El Rat

Sounds like ring gap, or lack of.

Originally Posted by 1937pickup

I now know why I don't run a filter in May.

Originally Posted by bluardun

Let me take a guess too.
Try and turn the engine backwards. If it's a standard shift, put it in 2nd and push the car backwards.
Maybe with a little luck, you have a nut, or something that was dropped into the engine while assembling.
Let us know what you find.
best of luck

Originally Posted by rgtharley

Piston ring end clearance could be the culprit too. Like JM asks, I too wonder what the piston to bore clearance is, and whether the ring end gap may be too tight. The rule of thumb is .004 per inch of bore. I have witnessed freshly rebuilt engines come to an abrupt halt too, as soon as they get up to temperature.
Good luck finding out what it is, and let us know what you find as you disassemble.
Bob

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

This is the biggest fear we builders have. We try to check everything but every once in a while you miss something. The 294 won't be run until late February, and I wonder if I forgot anything. Last year a carb screw came loose and broke a piston in a test engine. Instant bang, but we keep going. Hope it's something simple, take care.

Originally Posted by 8CM

Ford one has it right

The reason for the engine seizier was determined and corrected about a year and a half ago. Guy's-- Wake-up!

[Merc Cruzer]

JM35 Sedan:

As it turns out, I had drilled the passage to put in a full flow oil filter system and then forgot to put a plug in it since I did not use the system. Failed to put that on my check list during assembly. Bottom line I was not getting oil to the rod bearings. When the symptoms started I did shut the motor off and towed the car home (two blocks) and then pulled the pan. That resulted in pulling the engine out again and tearing it down again. The bottom line is the bearings did exactly what they were supposed to do, (not my first engine but it was my first flathead) only damage was to the bearings. I had the crank polished and re-cleaned the block. New set of bearings and I was good to go. It has been great and has all the power it should after a full rebuild...oil pressure 60 lbs. If this post is still helping after over a year then it was well worth the learning experience for me. The bottom two pictures were taken with the engine still in the car.

To my 53' Merc, I say...thanks for the education (which will never end), all in all the tuition was very reasonable....and my love of driving it will only end when I do.

Originally Posted by Carbroke
How can you bore it .60 over and reuse the original pistons? Supposed to buy over-sized pistons to match.

Not sure why it siezed, because you haven't said what actually siezed yet. But I know you need to put bigger pistons back in.

In my case I used a new block and had it bored to match the 60 over pistons from the old block.

[Planojc]

I second that. Put it in second or third gear and rock the car.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Merc Cruzer, thanks for the followup. I'm glad to hear that all ended well and you are enjoying the ride. Reading your original post may have prevented me from doing the same thing with a freshly built 59 series 284 cid engine. I did the 95% FF system and was planning to plug off those rear ports for initial start up.

[Jim]

While I understand almost all that has been said in this thread except the part about the plug or connection that has a 1/16 hole drilled in it, where does this plug or connection go? Thanks Jim

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Jim

While I understand almost all that has been said in this thread except the part about the plug or connection that has a 1/16 hole drilled in it, where does this plug or connection go? Thanks Jim

This is where the oil restrictor hole is on a stock filter setup.

[Bluebell]

This has been a very good thread.
I will add a half a picture of the fitting used by the Canadians that acted to block the other way while it was being used, and allow normal flow internally through the block when no external fittings (cooler, filter etc) was not connected. This is the one Barlea referred to.
I will show also a picture of the circuit diagram showing a cooler, a bypass valve, and a filter, from a Canadian Ford (Bren)Carrier.

One confusing aspect of this thread is about the two types of filtering systems used on these fords.
The original canister type is a bypass system that bleeds off about 5 to 10 percent of the oil, to filter it, and return it directly to the sump.
These filter elements were a very fine filtering media that removed very fine particles. They had a large surface area, and the oil supply to then was limited by the restrictor. They could stay in service for a long time. The rest of the oil being used to lube the engine before its return to the sump.

The full flow systems (95 or 100 percent.-two variations) used a modern type filter where all the pumped oil is sent through the filter, then goes on to lube the engine before returning to the pump. The variation between the two full flow systems is this.
In the 95% system the oil going to the rear main is not filtered before it goes there. In the 100% system it is.
The 100% system requires much modification. The 95% system requires very little, and what you need to keep in mind is that it(the oil) is already pretty clean as there is a 95% chance it went through the filter before it was picked up by the pump, this time around.

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

Now Lou. Doncha know a lotta us old geezers have forgotten about the age-old suggestion of simply changing oil every few thousand miles might actually be enough to keep an old flathead from havin' a stroke or seizure? So due to our fading memory we're more or less forced to get anal about dressing up and sometimes plugging up our beloved flatties with fancy plumbing and chrome-plated filters. Geez, I thought all old geezers knew that! 8^)

Jack E/NJ

Jack I have been wondering the same thing if all this foolishness is worth it. I have a bunch of old Fords, some with no filters and some with the old original Ford filters and never had bearing problems. I used good oil and change it once in a while. My 39 convertible with a new Dennis carpenter WW2 engine I installed 32 years ago with the Ford bypass filter that I opened the restrictor hole some has 120,000 miles on it and doesn't burn any noticeable oil, is quiet and runs smooth. Has thousands of 65 MPH 10 or 12 hour driving days and is clean inside. I find that when the engine ran up in the 200 degree range for a number of years the oil got black in a few days and used some oil. After getting the engine cooled with Skips pumps and a pressure cap it ran in the 165 range and stopped using oil. The oil also stays a slightly dark yellow. Still has over 15 lbs pressure at idle and 45 plus at driving speeds. Sounds like these modern filters on an old engine may cause more problems than the good they can do. I also wonder if oil starvation at start ups could be a problem. I know the benefit of filtration but on these engines is it worth it. G.M.

[Barlea]

The Ford Canada full-flow system was tested in quite a few locations including the North African desert, Sicily, Italy, France, Holland and Germany for about five years in the 40s before it was offered as an option on civilian cars and trucks until '51. Some of the testing was probably under even more severe conditions than us codgers can dish out to the flathead. Never heard of a problem caused by the filtration system so it could very well be worth it. ..B.

[Bluebell]

Barlea, I have a book which has a war time report in it. It stated the life of the Ford v8 motor was only 2 to 3 thousand miles.(in carriers) probably not much better in trucks. I suspect it was due to the crankcase breathing as much as the air filter. The germans liked our air filters better than their own.

[mfrk]

Richard Crow Had that happen to me on a 32 five window tried popping clutch & just fried the tires someone suggested to back it up & pop the clutch yup the starter was the culprit

[Lawson Cox]

Wow, what long, but very educational, thread this has been. Thanks to everone who contributed.

[Marv]

Originally Posted by Bluebell

Barlea, I have a book which has a war time report in it. It stated the life of the Ford v8 motor was only 2 to 3 thousand miles.(in carriers) probably not much better in trucks. I suspect it was due to the crankcase breathing as much as the air filter. The germans liked our air filters better than their own.

The 2000 to 3000 miles is correct. My father bought a brand new 46 Ford F-6 dump truck and hauled coal out of the pit and all dirt roads at that time and after Ford replaced the second engine they installed a oilbath air filter and that solved the problem. I think it already had the oil filter.