Rear axle and grease

[31 ford]

Once the rear drum is removed with a puller and the tapered axle is exposed, should that part of the axle be greased along with the axle key prior to re-installing the rear drum ? Thank you for your advice .

[lotsagas4u]

DO NOT put any grease on the exposed rear axle, pack the big roller bearing with stalube 3131 grease, install seal, snap ring. Clean inside of rear drum with brake cleaner, also clean shaft/keyway. Install drum and new drum washer, nut, then torque to 100 bs, drive it a few days and check torque again. The drum is tapered to fit the the axle, it must be clean and dry to work. Don't forget the cotter pin.

[31 ford]

THANK YOU Lotsagas4u . I really appreciate your advice !

[lotsagas4u]

Your welcome, good luck

[katy]

Originally Posted by lotsagas4u

Install drum and new drum washer, nut, then torque to....

Don't forget the seal that goes under the washer.

[31 ford]

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THANK YOU BOB, PATRICK, CHRS and KATHY FOR YOUR REPLIES AND ADVICE.

[john charlton]

The key does certainly NOT drive the car it is the mechanical bond of dry axle taper and dry hub taper .It is a stretch taper lock fit I pull up to 100 ft pounds and never ever had a failure When you pull up on the torque wrench you can sometimes actually feel it "cheep" as it locks . For the bond to work both tapers must be in good condition and dry sadly many are not pulled up hard enough and fretting of the tapers takes place mainly the axle taper . When the fretting takes place the key/keyway DOES take the driving load with eventual keyway damage . Worn axle tapers sometimes need axle shims but this is a band aid as the bond will not be enough to prevent keyway loading .The function of the key is to prevent rotation till the unit locks .A good bond is when the hub comes off with a bang when pulled the key has no part in this the car would have driven with no key for sure .

John in warm evening Suffolk County England .

John

[Synchro909]

I agree fully with Mr Charlton.

NOT in warm evening Suffolk County England - in $%^ cold Melbourne, Australia.

[Bob Bidonde]

John,
Take the keys out and attempt to drive your car. There is not enough friction developed in the tapers to drive the car.

[john charlton]

When I next build an axle I will do that but the axle and hub must be perfect . It is not friction which does the trick it is a metal to metal seal like a glue in effect . Some hubs I have pulled over the years have been a bear to get off no friction involved here I think the key playing no part in this as well .Have you checked your keyways recently ? With 55 ft pounds I bet you must get key/keyway wear how many miles do your axles do ?

John in same place same weather

[Patrick L.]

Some folks have their own ideas and there is no changing their mind.

[Big hammer]

IMHO It takes both the key and the taper working in unison !

[katy]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

IMHO It takes both the key and the taper working in unison !

Ditto

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

IMHO It takes both the key and the taper working in unison !

Sure, I'll go along with that. But, let that axle/hub slip a bit and that key won't last. At times neither will the axle.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Sure, I'll go along with that. But, let that axle/hub slip a bit and that key won't last. At times neither will the axle.

I've seen axles where the grip of the taper wasn't good enough and the key was driving. The result is a big chunk of steel breaking out of the side of the keyway in the axle. Fortunately, it usually lifts up out of place and provides some drive as well by wedging itself between the hub and the side of the hole it came out of. When that happens and the hub has to be removed, the result is not pretty. Now the owner is up for a new hub and axle and most likely they will decide now is the time for a complete rear end rebuild. It gets expensive very quickly.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I've seen axles where the grip of the taper wasn't good enough and the key was driving. The result is a big chunk of steel breaking out of the side of the keyway in the axle. Fortunately, it usually lifts up out of place and provides some drive as well by wedging itself between the hub and the side of the hole it came out of. When that happens and the hub has to be removed, the result is not pretty. Now the owner is up for a new hub and axle and most likely they will decide now is the time for a complete rear end rebuild. It gets expensive very quickly.

Yep, exactly. Thats why I've mentioned several times of the 'mechanic' we had to fire decades ago for doing dumb things such as not tightening the hub nut enough. You can't charge [ well we didn't] for comebacks, and, those kind of repairs can get expensive.

[nkaminar]

I use the loctite designed for threads on the axle. If you cannot get the hub off the loctite can be softened with some heat. You still have to torque the nut to at lease 100 ft-lbs and check it after some miles and again each year or so.

[Rob Doe]

Good stuff in this thread for me. Thx all.

I keep envisioning the tapers that hold milling machines, drill presses and other connections together. Often they don't employ a key at all yet, have to be forcibly separated with a simple but special too??? (I'm not a machinist either) The tapers on the fine milling machines are made to closer tolerances, but the principle seems the same???

The term "in unison" seems to fit the Model A's use of tapers plus a key and tight key way for multiple reasons:

Less than highly machined axle and hub tapers, lesser axle and hub materials???
Amateur service personnel. (like me for instance)
Stubborn service personnel as mentioned above.

I have removed and installed rear hub/drums about a dozen times now. That is my total experience. At least half of those attempts to put the hub/drum back on resulted in getting caught on something before the unit seated all the way in place. The key is loose and sitting in a worn key way but shows no evidence that it has been driving the wheel. The axle looks like a 90 year old sun worshiper with many mars and scars. A like-new axle and drum with a tight key would probably prevent some of those scars by helping to guide the hub/drum onto the axle. A rank amateur might not try to force the hub/drum onto the axle with the nut! (honest, I didn't try that, I just thought about it)

And after all this, what about teenagers like my dad? He was poppin' the Model A and Chevy clutches just like we did downtown on the main drag back in our hayday. If an axle nut gets left loose by accident and gramma drives the car until the next bearing service, the key can provide a certain amount of backup.

It would be neat to discover a frame or two of film revealing the length of the wrench used on the axle nut at the factory. Keep a close eye out fer this in those recent Archive films up on YouTube. And don't let your foot slide off that clutch while you're eye ballin' your honey's knee either.