Skip Haney's water pumps work- Real world traffic experience

[Tim Ayers]

I know there are a lot of threads about Skip's modified water pumps, so I thought I'd share my recent experience with them on my engine.

I had to change the generator on my hot rod. I wanted to make sure the new one was all OK, so I did not re-install the generator mounted fan for the test ride. I was being lazy and didn't want to have to take the fan off the generator again in case it needed to come out again.

Today, it was 88 degrees in NJ. While testing the car, I went down the main drag and got stuck in traffic. While idling, the car got to 195 degrees and held steady.

Once out of the traffic, I decided to pull over and let the engine idle to see what would happen to the temperature. Actual idling time was 10 minutes and the temp never got above 195.

Again, this was without the fan installed.

The system does have a Walker radiator and the block was surgically cleaned and all the crud from the water jackets was removed before the rebuild. I'm running straight water.

That said, the flathead is a 292, so it is a big cubic inch engine.

Once I started moving again, the temp dropped back down to +/-175 degree range.

I'm convinced Skip's pumps add to the overall cooling system to help keep the motor within an acceptable temperature.

[Jacques1960]

Totally agree with you; running 50/50 mix (and fan) engine does not exceed 175 - 180 (using quality temp gun) irrespective of driving conditions. Very pleased with rebuilds received from Skip last month.

[tubman]

8BA or earlier engine?

[Ziggster]

Since I’m relatively new to flatheads, I had never heard of Skip’s improved water pumps. Had to do some research and was surprised to see how much more water they flow. Can the notorious overheating issues that seem to plague many flathead owners be traced back to the original Ford design? I ask because I got some from Bob Drake I believe and will be firing up my rebuild soon?

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by tubman

8ba or earlier engine?

59a

[Tim Ayers]

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Originally Posted by Ziggster

Since I’m relatively new to flatheads, I had never heard of Skip’s improved water pumps. Had to do some research and was surprised to see how much more water they flow. Can the notorious overheating issues that seem to plague many flathead owners be traced back to the original Ford design? I ask because I got some from Bob Drake I believe and will be firing up my rebuild soon?

Ziggster,

I'm not sure, but I believe that some of these problems are or were caused by casting sand (when new) and gunk after time getting trapped in the water jackets.

The amount of crud and casting sand that I've removed from water jackets during tear downs is incredible. Basically, it creates a barrier around the cylinder that does allow the coolant to exchange the heat.

Other issues like poorly timed ignitions just compound the problem.

[Jacques1960]

When I removed the pumps from my ‘36 I was surprised to see 1) that the impeller vanes were both very small / straight and 2) were heavily eroded. Skip’s design includes larger vanes, although these are still true to the spirit of the original design.

[RKS.PA]

Tim, agree with you that Skip's pumps are absolutely the best...but think a lot of credit belongs to you for your "surgical" cleaning of the block as well!

p.s. wish I had done this when I rebuilt my 59AB.

[Steve in Denver]

Here is a shot of Skip's impellers.

Since it moves lots of water faster, should one run thermostats or not?

If it passes through the radiator too fast, it will not have time to cool.

If it is restricted by the thermostats, does that defeat the purpose of the bigger impeller?

[Ziggster]

Wow! There’s no comparison. I just had a look at the ones that came with my engine to check and they look the same. Damn. I wish I had known about this prior buying new ones.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Steve in Denver

Here is a shot of Skip's impellers.

Since it moves lots of water faster, should one run thermostats or not?

If it passes through the radiator too fast, it will not have time to cool.

If it is restricted by the thermostats, does that defeat the purpose of the bigger impeller?

No, I found my engine ran too cold without thermostats. I believe Skip recommends thermostat usage in his instructions as well

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Steve in Denver

If it passes through the radiator too fast, it will not have time to cool.

Let's ask THIS one another way. If it DOES pass through the radiator too fast to cool, does that also mean that the water is passing through the ENGINE too quickly to pick up the heat? Coop

.

[Tim Ayers]

Coop,

That was not my experience. Without T stats, engine ran at 160. Only change to bring it up 175+\- was adding T stats. No other change

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Coop,

That was not my experience. Without T stats, engine ran at 160. Only change to bring it up 175+\- was adding T stats. No other change

Think about what I said. IF water passes TOO quickly through block, it may not have enough time to COLLECT heat.

So, doesn't a THERMOSTAT keep the water IN THE BLOCK for a longer period of time, to collect more heat? Coop

.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Think about what I said. IF water passes TOO quickly through block, it may not have enough time to COLLECT heat.

So, doesn't a THERMOSTAT keep the water IN THE BLOCK for a longer period of time, to collect more heat? Coop

.

I understand what I said. I have 160 degree old Robert Shaw barrel type T stats that have a very large opening for a thermostat.

I also have a Walker radiator that allows for a 7 lb cap, so that may be contributing to the overall lower cooling that I was experiencing.

As mentioned, only change I made was adding thermostats and the car runs exactly were it should with no other changes. I will say our other old Fords that do not run Skip's pumps do not run as cool or hold the temp as steady.

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Originally Posted by Ziggster

Since I’m relatively new to flatheads, I had never heard of Skip’s improved water pumps. Had to do some research and was surprised to see how much more water they flow. Can the notorious overheating issues that seem to plague many flathead owners be traced back to the original Ford design? I ask because I got some from Bob Drake I believe and will be firing up my rebuild soon?

Some people "slag" Drake off on this site but I have a set of Drake pumps on my car and the impellor is an improvement over the stock type. I know earlier production ones had one of the mounting holes offset which caused problems but he has rectified this. I have had no issues with my Drake pumps and they do a good job cooling the car.

GB

[TomT/Williamsburg]

Great you’ve got the car road worthy - hope to catch up with you @ Hershey this year and chat …..

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by TomT/Williamsburg

Great you’ve got the car road worthy - hope to catch up with you @ Hershey this year and chat …..

Sounds great, Tom. Talk to you in Oct.

[Bored&Stroked]

It is a common misconception that one needs to SLOW DOWN the water/coolant flow so it has time to pickup heat. The old wives tales of cutting off every other water-pump fin and drilling a 1/4" hole in the rest was common advice when I first started building flatheads . . . people did it because they read the magazines and listened to bench racers.


Factual Information: This is from Stewart Components - a leading water pump manufacturer in the high-performance and race world. I use their pumps on various OHV race engines:


A common misconception is that if coolant flows too quickly through the system, that it will not have time to cool properly. However the cooling system is a closed loop, so if you are keeping the coolant in the radiator longer to allow it to cool, you are also allowing it to stay in the engine longer, which increases coolant temperatures. Coolant in the engine will actually boil away from critical heat areas within the cooling system if not forced through the cooling system at a sufficiently high velocity. This situation is a common cause of so-called "hot spots", which can lead to failures.

Years ago, cars used low pressure radiator caps with upright-style radiators. At high RPM, the water pump pressure would overcome the radiator cap's rating and force coolant out, resulting in an overheated engine. Many enthusiasts mistakenly believed that these situations were caused because the coolant was flowing through the radiator so quickly, that it did not have time to cool. Using restrictors or slowing water pump speed prevented the coolant from being forced out, and allowed the engine to run cooler. However, cars built in the past thirty years have used cross flow radiators that position the radiator cap on the low pressure (suction) side of the system. This type of system does not subject the radiator cap to pressure from the water pump, so it benefits from maximizing coolant flow, not restricting it.

[Ziggster]

Originally Posted by Graeme / New Zealand

Some people "slag" Drake off on this site but I have a set of Drake pumps on my car and the impellor is an improvement over the stock type. I know earlier production ones had one of the mounting holes offset which caused problems but he has rectified this. I have had no issues with my Drake pumps and they do a good job cooling the car.

GB

I actually checked a few days ago, and I got them from Speedway! Lol! The ones from Speedway have 8 vanes that are slightly angled compared to the 6 radial blades on the originals.