Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-31-2019, 12:04 PM   #1
cajunfirehawk
Senior Member
 
cajunfirehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ms GulfCoast
Posts: 238
Unhappy flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

(UPDATED)

While I was working on the front of my 36 Flathead I ordered a pair of new improved water pumps with the ceramic bearings and I installed them late last night, this morning I go to crank it up and one of the NEW pumps is not rotating past a certain point it will lock up solid, I cannot even budge it with channel locks, see remedy below!


Sorry for the rant, just had to vent.
__________________
Regards,
Todd

1936 FORD Tudor Slantback


"cajunhotrodder" on instagram/youtube

Last edited by cajunfirehawk; 09-01-2019 at 12:16 PM.
cajunfirehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 12:14 PM   #2
petehoovie
Senior Member
 
petehoovie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7,924
Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Have you removed it from the cylinder-head to inspect it yet?
__________________
The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others....

"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"
"We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0
petehoovie is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-31-2019, 12:16 PM   #3
cajunfirehawk
Senior Member
 
cajunfirehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ms GulfCoast
Posts: 238
Exclamation Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by petehoovie View Post
Have you removed it from the cylinder-head to inspect it yet?
No, I was done for the day after this incident and have plans to go out w/my family for an early dinner today but over the long weekend I will investigate further. Other than the obvious, anything to look for?
__________________
Regards,
Todd

1936 FORD Tudor Slantback


"cajunhotrodder" on instagram/youtube
cajunfirehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 12:17 PM   #4
adileo
Senior Member
 
adileo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,772
Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Sorry you are having issues. I have Dennis pumps in my 39 coupe and in my 52 F1.

Truck 2 years
Car 5 years

No issues.

However I should mention. Since the truck needed so much work, the pumps sat on my shelf for over 6 months. When I was ready to install I noticed one of the fins had a crack. I called and while long after purchase they replaced the pump free of charge. I can’t recall if I paid for postage to return damaged pump.
__________________
Thanks

Andy
1952 F1
adileo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 12:22 PM   #5
petehoovie
Senior Member
 
petehoovie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7,924
Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunfirehawk View Post
No, I was done for the day after this incident and have plans to go out w/my family for an early dinner today but over the long weekend I will investigate further. Other than the obvious, anything to look for?

Maybe something accidentally fell into the pump like a bolt or a nut....
__________________
The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others....

"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"
"We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0
petehoovie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 01:38 PM   #6
Charlie ny
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,019
Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
caj,
I have had good results on two recent builds.....'34 and '36 with DC head mounted pumps. Drain it and see what's going on, the guy at DC will ask that when Tuesday rolls around.
Charlie ny
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 02:50 PM   #7
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,946
Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Did it spin before it was installed? Sometimes new stuff doesn't work. I changed plugs in a modern ride due to a miss. The brand new plugs I installed had one bad one in the box. This caused a lot of more work till I got back to the plugs!
J Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 02:57 PM   #8
cajunfirehawk
Senior Member
 
cajunfirehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ms GulfCoast
Posts: 238
Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

I'll check into all of that in the morning, its been cooler in the early mornings here on the Gulfcoast lately (come on early fall!) and I'll will take it off in the morning.

Thanks Gents.

PS: please lets all say a prayer that all of our hot rod friends and families in Florida stay safe from the hurricane, its starting to look really bad!
__________________
Regards,
Todd

1936 FORD Tudor Slantback


"cajunhotrodder" on instagram/youtube
cajunfirehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 10:12 AM   #9
35fordtn
Senior Member
 
35fordtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McMinnville, TN
Posts: 2,327
Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

My guess would be the impeller May be hitting the cylinder head. I’ve used drake and carpenter 21 stud pumps with nothing but great results. I do prefer the drake ones over the carpenter pumps
35fordtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 11:40 AM   #10
Kube
Senior Member
 
Kube's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,935
Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
My guess would be the impeller May be hitting the cylinder head. I’ve used drake and carpenter 21 stud pumps with nothing but great results. I do prefer the drake ones over the carpenter pumps
This would be my guess as well. Even with authentic pumps one must be careful with the installation as the pulley will occasionally interfere with the cylinder head. Easy fix obviously... just move the pump a bit before final fastening.
__________________
"I can explain it for you. However, I can't understand it for you".
Kube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 12:36 PM   #11
cajunfirehawk
Senior Member
 
cajunfirehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ms GulfCoast
Posts: 238
Talking Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
My guess would be the impeller May be hitting the cylinder head. I’ve used drake and carpenter 21 stud pumps with nothing but great results. I do prefer the drake ones over the carpenter pumps
WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!



Yes, after further review, your right on the money Michael! After I cleaned this up with a grinder and was super careful to protect the surrounding area and inside of the head of debris, all is well now.

Pics below from L to R
  • poor casting, not full circle, impeller hitting
  • close up, wow the 80+ yrs of rust!
  • new pump on L, old on R, where is the originals impeller?
  • like going to the dentist; magnets used to catch metal shavings, and greasy paper towel in head
  • all done, works like new, note that killer 3rd gen dizzy down below...
  • tool for this task
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190824_090343.jpg (27.9 KB, 167 views)
File Type: jpg pump1a.jpg (20.5 KB, 93 views)
File Type: jpg pump2ab.jpg (20.3 KB, 95 views)
File Type: jpg pump3a.jpg (20.6 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg pump4a.jpg (9.6 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg pump5a.jpg (20.1 KB, 90 views)
__________________
Regards,
Todd

1936 FORD Tudor Slantback


"cajunhotrodder" on instagram/youtube

Last edited by cajunfirehawk; 09-01-2019 at 08:27 PM.
cajunfirehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 12:39 PM   #12
cajunfirehawk
Senior Member
 
cajunfirehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ms GulfCoast
Posts: 238
Thumbs up Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
I’ve used drake and carpenter 21 stud pumps with nothing but great results. I do prefer the drake ones over the carpenter pumps
I kind of assumed they came from the same manufacturer can you tell me what you like better about the drake units versus the D.C. untis? If memory serves I tried to order them from B.D. but maybe they were out at the time or super high shipping rates maybe?
__________________
Regards,
Todd

1936 FORD Tudor Slantback


"cajunhotrodder" on instagram/youtube
cajunfirehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 02:49 PM   #13
Newc
Senior Member
 
Newc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,458
Default Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

Hi; About 'files' too big? Set your camera to the least pixels possible for posting 'files'.... photos to us normal folks. Newc
Newc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 02:57 PM   #14
cajunfirehawk
Senior Member
 
cajunfirehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ms GulfCoast
Posts: 238
Default Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newc View Post
Hi; About 'files' too big? Set your camera to the least pixels possible for posting 'files'.... photos to us normal folks. Newc
Its my phone and yes, the files are massive but the odd thing is, the 1st pic above was taken with the same phone and it worked?



Pics uploaded above!
__________________
Regards,
Todd

1936 FORD Tudor Slantback


"cajunhotrodder" on instagram/youtube

Last edited by cajunfirehawk; 09-01-2019 at 08:25 PM.
cajunfirehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 05:02 PM   #15
35fordtn
Senior Member
 
35fordtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McMinnville, TN
Posts: 2,327
Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunfirehawk View Post
I kind of assumed they came from the same manufacturer can you tell me what you like better about the drake units versus the D.C. untis? If memory serves I tried to order them from B.D. but maybe they were out at the time or super high shipping rates maybe?


My reasoning for liking the drakes better is small. I only keep carpenter pumps on hand as I am a carpenter dealer but not a drake dealer. In the attached photos you will see the drake pumps have slightly more impeller vane surface area and a tighter tolerance in the housing. Either way both have ceramic seals and modern sealed bearing which in my opinion is superior to original bushing designs for a driver type car. For a show car they are not correct.

.IMG_6570.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
35fordtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 06:37 PM   #16
cajunfirehawk
Senior Member
 
cajunfirehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ms GulfCoast
Posts: 238
Default Re: Dennis Carpenter new flatty waterpump issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
My reasoning for liking the drakes better is small. I only keep carpenter pumps on hand as I am a carpenter dealer but not a drake dealer. In the attached photos you will see the drake pumps have slightly more impeller vane surface area and a tighter tolerance in the housing. Either way both have ceramic seals and modern sealed bearing which in my opinion is superior to original bushing designs for a driver type car. For a show car they are not correct.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks again Michael, just to confirm, the Drake pump is on the right... BTW; I picked up one of your helmet "11 a" dizzys and whoever is responsible for those does great work, thanks!
__________________
Regards,
Todd

1936 FORD Tudor Slantback


"cajunhotrodder" on instagram/youtube

Last edited by cajunfirehawk; 09-01-2019 at 08:27 PM.
cajunfirehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 07:32 PM   #17
35fordtn
Senior Member
 
35fordtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McMinnville, TN
Posts: 2,327
Default Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

Actually the drake pump is on the right side of the photo. A side by side trail showed no real difference in cooling temperatures... but a side by side with a original did.

Thanks for the comments, we are a very small husband and wife business and I do all the rebuilding work.
35fordtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2019, 08:09 PM   #18
cajunfirehawk
Senior Member
 
cajunfirehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ms GulfCoast
Posts: 238
Talking Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35fordtn View Post
Actually the drake pump is on the right side of the photo. A side by side trail showed no real difference in cooling temperatures... but a side by side with a original did.

Thanks for the comments, we are a very small husband and wife business and I do all the rebuilding work.
When you see the impellers on my original pumps..wait I cant see any impellers, lol
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pump2ab.jpg (20.3 KB, 66 views)
__________________
Regards,
Todd

1936 FORD Tudor Slantback


"cajunhotrodder" on instagram/youtube
cajunfirehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 03:39 AM   #19
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,732
Default Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

Well done on finding the cause of the problem. Sometimes you just have to get in there and get your hands dirty. It gives you a great sense of satisfaction when you encounter a problem, identify the cause and effect a solution.
And by sharing it, it can help others avoid the same problem.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 06:34 AM   #20
Terry,OH
Senior Member
 
Terry,OH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,724
Default Re: flatty waterpump issue...(SOLVED)

The same thing can happen with Skips pumps on the 21 stud engine due to the large impeller.
Terry,OH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:30 AM.