Early Engine, more pic's

[d.j. moordigian]

I think Jim is right-on about the plug base's.
Dean, I would think your car should have the straight manifold. With a HOLE.

* Good question,....you and Steve Ciccalone talked about, do you have a
hole in the tank?

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Originally Posted by dean from bozeman

Hopefully this photo isn't too big. In a matter of weeks I have forgotten how to insert photos.

This is a head on Plind's A2820. As you can see it has the pronounced boss for the distributor set screw.

One thing that concerns me, (when talking production dates) is the fact production in USA started in October 1927, whereas in Canada, it was February 1928. This means to me that something "Early" in the States that had engineering changes, if it was done in the first 4-5 months of production, the "Early" part may have never made it to Canada, as in the head shown above. Then again, as the case with the studs and nuts, if there was an over abundance of these parts, they might have shipped to Canada to make them disappear from the stock that was on hand in the production warehouse. Makes sense to me, any comments? Jim

[dean from bozeman]

Mike V., yes the early heads we minus the water hole between the 2nd and 3rd cylinders.

D.J. Of the four humpy manifolds I have 3 are of the straight variety. I got an original humpy with the hole for A495 from Doug in Baker, OR. Though I see the holed one in some early literature I do not see it in all early literature. Steve has (had) an early NOS tank with no vertical ribs that doesn't have the hole. My early tank has the hole.

Jim Parker, you bring up some real good points. Was "early" the same everywhere? On this point I find it interesting that there are many 3 digit cars found on the West coast. Was Ford dumping them out there because regulations were more relaxed?

When parts were stockpiled at the new plants, did they send the older parts or ones that were reengineered or did they give a rat's ...? I highly doubt that there was any rhyme or reason when using parts off of the "piles". When you see the photos of piles of parts at a Ford plant I don't think that they consciously decided to use the older parts first, particularly if they were under tons of parts. I don't think that they could.

However, I can easily see how that might be wrong when considering the early brake systems. To sell cars out East they needed to make sure that the new brake system was installed. That may be why there are so many early brake systems in trucks and cars out west.

I have a Tudor body and frame A18417 and body number CHI212. The frame had a different type of rear engine mount on both sides. The body had two different front fenders and two different hood shelves. The later variety was on opposite sides. Yup, I believe that there was a lot of mix and match.

[700rpm]

Has the later choke arm on the the carb.

[Charles Reese]

early 'humpy' with threaded hole/square flat mounting feet ... thinking the hole had been drilled/tapped for a later vac wiper, yours truly mustered his welding skills and filled it in ... just in time for the JS revisions to state otherwise... now trying to decide if i should redrill/tap/plug for originality? comments are welcomed

suspect the 'welding' lines may be casting joints.

[Fred]

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??? Does anybody READ PRIOR POSTS before posting A wrong answer, not sure, or one that already has the same answer ??... As in the 3x spark plugs in this thread...

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by dean from bozeman

D.J. I looked at the two humpy manifolds here at the house. One is tapered at the block side and the other isn't. I had never noticed that before. Now I must go down to the garage by the barn and check a couple others.

Our late friend found he had a combination of both as well. We did include the change in R3 based roughly on Ford's engineering releases.

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Originally Posted by Charles Reese

early 'humpy' with threaded hole/square flat mounting feet ... thinking the hole had been drilled/tapped for a later vac wiper, yours truly mustered his welding skills and filled it in ... just in time for the JS revisions to state otherwise... now trying to decide if i should redrill/tap/plug for originality? comments are welcomed

suspect the 'welding' lines may be casting joints.

Correct me if I am wrong, but, if the engine was in an Open Car, where the windshield wiper was hand operated, why would you need a hole in the intake for a vacuum line? Would it have been there? Just curious, don't mean start anything....

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Quote from Dean "Jim Parker, you bring up some real good points. Was "early" the same everywhere? On this point I find it interesting that there are many 3 digit cars found on the West coast. Was Ford dumping them out there because regulations were more relaxed?"

I have personally 3 motors that are 3-digit and know of at least 4 more in the Greater Toronto Area. (GTA) Strangely enough, they all start with "CA 5XX)

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Gary Karr

Also, notice that the intake manifold, although an early '28 style, does not have the threadded and plugged hole, nor the early oil return tube, as indicated by the JS&RG, revision 3.

I don't recall adding anything about the oil return tube except the relationship of the early/late valve chamber cover which was there before. What am I missing?

[Gary Karr]

Marco, that is from the '97 revisions in the Early 1928 Vehicles section. "The oil return pipe has a heavy welded seam around the tube approximately 1-1/2" from the attachment bolts." I have seen one original.

[Tom Wesenberg]

If vaccum wipers came out in mid 29 why would any 1928 intake manifolds have a tapped hole?

The center cooling hole was added to the heads in October 1929, so about half the Model A's made came without the center hole.

On the 3X plugs, also notice the knurling has the pyramids going in, rather than rising above the surface as original. Female vs. the original male style knurling.

[Tudortomnz]

Would not the early open cars have a hand operated wiper & later have the vacuum wiper motor?. Ford Canada was using electric wipers on Tudors & other closed types through 1929. These were not drilled on the intake for a vacuum line. My late [ Oct.] '29 Canadian Tudor is equiped so.

[dean from bozeman]

'If vaccum wipers came out in mid 29 why would any 1928 intake manifolds have a tapped hole?'
Tom, this is an understandable statement and my response at first. However, it seems that there was a lot of experimenting going on with the early ones. It may have been that they were going to use vacuum wipers but didn't get around to it until '29.

Gary, here's a thousand words....I mean a picture of the early oil return pipe. This is a genuine one. Both ends have the same type of weld.

[Charles Reese]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

If vacuum wipers came out in mid 29 why would any 1928 intake manifolds have a tapped hole?

That was my line of thinking when i welded the hole ... assumed someone had drilled/tapped sometime later in her octogenarian past. This particular intake manifold was not on my truck when i acquired it, but was in much better shape than the humpy one on her .... so made the switch (prior to publication of the 2011 JS revision).

the info on page 1-10 (2011 rev) is rather emphatic (specific dates) about the changes so, despite the vacuum date conundrum, I assume my Jan '28 should be tapped/plugged (am waiting for dust to settle before i redrill/tap though). i doubt they would have bothered to try to discriminate between manifolds destined for trucks (hand wiper/no hole) vs. other styles

[columbiA]

In the early 80,s I found a very early USA block #A254.There was nothing on the block other than the cam,lifters & front timing cover.The timing cover was unusual in that it appeared to be forged as it was very smooth & the gen mount was drilled for only a 3/8"bolt.The boss around the hole was only about 1/4"thick.I took brg caps,C shaft etc from other engines,rebored it and ended up with a nice running engine,then put it in a 28 phaeton.I had saved the early TG cover,but in the process of moving several times,it disapeared.

[Mike V. Florida]

I've been told that the early heads did not have the "peanut" shaped hole in it.

[Ray in La Mesa]

It also has the very early water pump with the small hole on the bottom of the casting.

[plind]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

I've been told that the early heads did not have the "peanut" shaped hole in it.

Here is a Picture from inside, Dec 27 Head..

[James Rogers]

Here are some pictures of the head I sold to Charles Reese. Early 28 with the original distributor screw which, is different from later screws because it is longer to compensate for the deeper boss.