Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-17-2018, 04:58 AM   #1
Hodpatf
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2
Default Tight engine

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping to get some advice on how to fix a tight engine.

About 30 years ago my dad had the engine rebuilt on his 31 Model A. the engine had about 3 hours of run time, and then was garage stored and left alone until last year.

The first thing I did was drop the oil pan and replace some gaskets and install a new battery. All the oil in the engine came out looking pretty good considering.

Once that was done when using the hand crank we could get it all the way around, but it was slow going. The starter would ramp the engine up a bit more, but it couldn't get going fast enough to start (or so we think).

So, any advice on what could be slowing the whole thing down? Would popping the clutch on it do the trick?

Thanks in advance,
Hodpatf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 07:41 AM   #2
ponymare
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 136
Default Re: Tight engine

Did you pull the spark plugs and add a spoon full or two of auto trans fluid first?, While you had the pan off did you squirt oil around the rod and main bearings? If its sat that long the engine is bound to be dry and tight.
ponymare is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 02-17-2018, 07:53 AM   #3
chap52
Senior Member
 
chap52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Marana Arizona
Posts: 1,660
Default Re: Tight engine

Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders and added to the oil. Hand crank it a few rev's, let it sit a few hours, hand crank it again, let it sit. Do this for a 2-3 days hand cranking it whenever you pass by. I am sure you will notice it loosening up.Then try to start it. If you can remove the valve side plate you might want to squirt some oil/MMO on the lifters also.
Keep us posted.
chap52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 08:07 AM   #4
Growley bear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 777
Default Re: Tight engine

Maybe it was parked because the engine was tight. Famous last words, " it was running when parked ". Did you check the rods when you had the pan off? Were there any metal particles in the pan? Removing plugs and adding some oil and trying to turn with hand crank as stated earlier is a great place to start.
Starter disengaged from flywheel ring gear? A long shot but have helper disengage the clutch to see if that helps; maybe a problem in transmission?
Remove distributor and pour a quart of oil to fill bearing oil galleys and lube lifters? Is the distributor turning with the engine? Does the crankshaft have end play? Rock the crankshaft back and forth a few degrees, there should be a very small amount of noticeable slack/lash.
Not a good idea to try to start a dry engine.
Growley bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 08:10 AM   #5
JDupuis
Senior Member
 
JDupuis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Maryhill Ont Canada
Posts: 834
Default Re: Tight engine

Hodpatf: Congrats on making your first post.
Sounds like your engine is still tight as it has never been broken in. Engines are tight after a rebuild.
You may need to run an extra ground strap to the engine/transmission.
As stated above, you dropped the pan, I would treat this as a fresh start. Pour a quart of oil down the distributor opening. Then fill the rest of the oil in the ususal manner.
Insure that you are running a 6 volt pos ground. And all battery, and grounding and contacts are clean. Good luck. Jeff
__________________
Let's let pylons, be pylons!
JDupuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 08:10 AM   #6
JDupuis
Senior Member
 
JDupuis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Maryhill Ont Canada
Posts: 834
Default Re: Tight engine

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
sorry double post. Jeff
__________________
Let's let pylons, be pylons!
JDupuis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 09:23 AM   #7
Hodpatf
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2
Default Re: Tight engine

Thank you all for the quick reply!

I did replace the plugs, but I can't recall if i added any oil there. Just to be sure I don't miss anything here is a quick list for myself mostly of what all I'll try:
  • Run an extra ground strap to the engine/transmission
  • Confirm 6 volts on the pos ground
  • Pour a quart of oil down the distributor opening
  • Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders and add to the oil

If none of that helps i'll start with Growley bear's list of mechanical checks (as opposed to lubrication issues).

Again, thank you all for the help!
Hodpatf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 12:10 PM   #8
BILL WILLIAMSON
Senior Member
 
BILL WILLIAMSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: FRESNO, CA
Posts: 12,560
Default Re: Tight engine

Check to see if your starter is drawing EXCESSIVE Amperage??? "Might" be a TIRED Starter???
Bill Tired
__________________
"THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"
BILL WILLIAMSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 12:13 PM   #9
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,490
Default Re: Tight engine

Have you made sure you have spark. After sitting that long you need to clean
the oxidation off the points.

Bob
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 12:48 PM   #10
1928Mik
Senior Member
 
1928Mik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Zanesville Ohio USA
Posts: 220
Default Re: Tight engine

Sounds like the same thing that happened to my car, letting it sit for 30+ years like my Dad did. All the while I would sneak to the garage and turn the engine over just to keep it freed up. When it came time to resurrect, I cleaned carb & all the plugs and checked timing, then like Chap said, used Mystery Oil in cylinders and hand cranking. Then to make sure it would start, we put a bit of gas in each cylinder and turned it over with the starter. Engine loosened up and was able to start easily after turning gas on.
__________________
1928 Niagara Blue Phaeton
1972 Olds 442 Convertible
1928Mik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 01:25 PM   #11
hardtimes
Senior Member
 
hardtimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 6,090
Default Re: Tight engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodpatf View Post
Hi everyone,

I'm hoping to get some advice on how to fix a tight engine.

About 30 years ago my dad had the engine rebuilt on his 31 Model A. the engine had about 3 hours of run time, and then was garage stored and left alone until last year.

The first thing I did was drop the oil pan and replace some gaskets and install a new battery. All the oil in the engine came out looking pretty good considering.

Once that was done when using the hand crank we could get it all the way around, but it was slow going. The starter would ramp the engine up a bit more, but it couldn't get going fast enough to start (or so we think).

So, any advice on what could be slowing the whole thing down? Would popping the clutch on it do the trick?

Thanks in advance,

If any engine sitting for decades without prior...proper storage care, my first thought would be for lubrication. Lots of guys do not use assembly lube , that will stay where it should when engine is stored. Therefore, if it is possible, ensure that you PRE-lube the engine internals prior to starting...most important !
One other thing that I'd do, is that if/when you feel close to starting event, I use a spray of starting fluid , either in spark plug holes (prior to cranking) and/or in carb as you crank engine. This , IMO, is much preferable to putting raw gas into cyls and washing lube down cyl walls. Your choice. Good luck

Last edited by hardtimes; 02-17-2018 at 01:27 PM. Reason: ......
hardtimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 02:10 PM   #12
Kohnke Rebabbitting
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: 60615,330th Ave.,Clare, Iowa, 50524
Posts: 1,456
Default Re: Tight engine

After all necessary things are done, oil, water, ect. Take out the plugs, put it in high gear, and pull it about 15 miles an hour, no more, and no less.


Equivalent of 4 to 8 miles. Around the section if you have one, or up and down a long lane, or around the block.


This is always safer then starting the engine up, when new. The oil pan will still get hot enough so you can't hold your hand on it. You then don't have to worry about burning a bearing out, and it is also much better on piston, and rings, because you don't have the heat to contend with.


Heat, at this point is not your friend!


Herm.
Kohnke Rebabbitting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 03:20 PM   #13
Ed in Maine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 851
Default Re: Tight engine

I had the same problem with a newly rebuilt engine that sat for 10 years. The rebuilder was a big help, "you should have been turning the engine every six months." Kohnke's suggestion for towing is a good one but in my case it wasn't enough. I started out towing the car with my tractor, all plugs out, car was in neutral. I shifted into high gear and very carefully started to let out the clutch until I could hear the clutch starting to rub and then I bumped the starter button. It was the jolt of the starter that broke it loose. Then I let the clutch all the way out. The hood was off so I could see the fan turning. I can tell you I was one very happy guy! We towed the car for about a 1/2 mile but it was not enough to break it in. We towed the car several times and then I put the plugs back in the car and went through the same towing procedure until the car started. That was a great day!! I was surprised that it took a few towings to get the car started and like magic one day it started perfectly normally with the starter. I was home free.

One note of caution, don't forget that you have a keyed rear axle that can be sheared if you are too rough in jump starting the car, messing up your axle shaft. Do this towing process very gently. Good luck with your project.
Ed
Ed in Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 03:51 PM   #14
BILL WILLIAMSON
Senior Member
 
BILL WILLIAMSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: FRESNO, CA
Posts: 12,560
Default Re: Tight engine

In the country, with NO electricity or battery chargers, it was common to push or tow a new engine job, to start it!
Bill Poordude
__________________
"THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"
BILL WILLIAMSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 10:54 PM   #15
Simonpie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland Or
Posts: 137
Default Re: Tight engine

3 hours is a pretty respectable amount of run time. Dry rings can have a lot of drag, so I agree with the oil in the cylinder ideas. When you pulled the pan, did you change the rope seal? I've seen those seals cause a lot of drag on the pulley. No real cure for it other than to force it to start and run it for a while. It breaks in over about 1/2 hour of running. You'll know it is good when the pulley stops getting smoking hot.
Simonpie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 12:17 AM   #16
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,754
Default Re: Tight engine

I started my car on a rebuilt tight engine after a tow with the plugs out, aprox. 1 mile. I went to a hill and got it rolling and did the starter+ clutch in 3rd. After it started I just ran it enough to make adjustments and be sure nothing was amiss and then shut it off. I let it set a few minutes and then started it with the starter. It only takes 1 or 2 revolutions to start if all is ok. I have a model T that starts with a prime couple of revs and fires from a dead stop when the key is turned on.
J Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 07:30 AM   #17
chap52
Senior Member
 
chap52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Marana Arizona
Posts: 1,660
Default Re: Tight engine

Sounds like everyone is on the same page. Like Bill said us old guys use to tow them to get them started.
My buddies and I rebuilt a V-8 in my 46 woodie when we were wise old seasoned 16 year old mechanics. My dad gave it a tow with his car and down the road we went. Took one of my helpers home and a half hour late my dad got a call from my friends mom complaining about the puddle of oil we left in here driveway...oops, forgot to reinstall the dip stick tube. Had to go back and clean up the mess. That helped "season us" because 55 years later I am still triple checking when I "button one up".
Keep us posted, Chap
chap52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 04:52 PM   #18
Smurkey
Senior Member
 
Smurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Esko, MN
Posts: 257
Default Re: Tight engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill williamson View Post
in the country, with no electricity or battery chargers, it was common to push or tow a new engine job, to start it!
bill poordude
bingo!
Smurkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 02:46 AM   #19
MikeK
Senior Member
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Windy City
Posts: 2,912
Default Re: Tight engine

My big 350 rpm gear-drive Milwaukee drill with 3/4 chuck spins an engine easily from the front ratchet nut. Grind three flats on a cutoff crank stub so it won't slip in the chuck. I use it to spin my mothballed engines during the winter.
It looks like this-

__________________
Mechanical engineering 101: If you put an adjustment knob, screw, bolt, or tolerance specs on something, some people will immediately fiddle with it. If you mark it DO NOT TOUCH everyone will mess with it.
MikeK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 03:13 AM   #20
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,516
Default Re: Tight engine

I also have a big Milwaukee hammer drill, similar to Mike's, and if it doesn't spin the engine, it will be spinning me. That thing has a lot of torque.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:26 AM.