Museums, Good or Bad?

[Tom Wesenberg]

The day before I was at the Gilmore museum for the Model A grand opening, I heard a comment that someone thought that museums were a bad thing because they simply hoard cars and keep them out of people's hands. Thus they had no interest in donating to the museum.

I'd never heard a comment like this before, and I couldn't disagree more with their thinking. Museums are a great place to preserve history and make cars available for ALL to see. Most of the wonderful cars on display at the Gilmore would probably be under lock and key and never driven, if in private hands. Actually many of the cars on display are owned by private individuals and are proudly on display for all to see and enjoy.

If Henry Ford hadn't built his wonderful museum I'd guess most of the things on display would have been turned to scrap and made into some modern junk, not worth looking at.

Anyway, I don't suppose what I say will change minds, but I think museums are great and I want to include the Gilmore in my will.

[Keith True]

I got a rude awakening about museums when I was about 18 or 19 years old.My girlfriends family were auctioneers,dealers,brokers,insures,etc.for antiques.They drilled it into me that the vast majority of donated stuff gets peddled off for cash.So many people have the idea that if they donate their stuff it will be preserved for others to enjoy.Where I got my shock was at an old house in town there was a Hupmobile and an Auburn.They were parked there in 41,and nicely stored.Extremely well preserved.The woman there had never driven,they were her late husbands and fathers cars.She donated the cars and a lot of historical stuff about the war to the Smithsonian.They came out and took dozens of pictures,and I got hired to make sure the cars would roll onto a trailer.A truck showed up for them,it was an antique car dealer from New Jersey that had bought them from the Smithsonian just by the pictures.He bought them cheaply,sight unseen,and the Smithsonian had a little bit of cash without a lot of effort,just a rep flying in and taking pictures.The buyer laughed and said,I bet you thought that these cars were going to be preserved and shown off to the general public.He then told me that they get hundreds of cars donated just like that,with the donor never knowing that his pride and joy will just be peddled off to the highest bid broker.

[J Franklin]

I once bought a car from the Peterson museum in Los Angeles. It was surely not up to display standards. The donation to the museum and subsequent sale helped keep things running, and the car did not go to a scrap yard. The donor was able to take a tax wright-off. We all need to think through our needs and motives for the actions we take and act accordingly. I personally love museums of all kinds.

[luckyal]

There are indeed good and bad. I think the concept is great and I also donate to them. As long as they are not misreperesented for persoanl gain we can all surely benefit from their existance. They have my vote for sure ! The Gimore certainly has my support.
Al
( Tax deductibel also )

[Jim Parker Toronto]

My grandson and I loved the new Ford Museum, there was so much there as well as a small history lesson for him that included Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, and Harvey Firestone. It was hard to explain that it was a Model A Museum, that there was other cars inside as well. It was a wonderful worthwhile trip for both of us. Old Blue ran 694 miles round trip effortlessly, and without a problem. The only disappointment for me was when I saw the chopped coupe with a chevy engine was allowed to go in with the original A's. There was another sedan there that had a 289 and an automatic in it, but the outside looked close to original, and it seemed the driver had a medical condition that would not let him shift gears, so....in my books, he gets a pass.

[Ross/Kzoo]

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Originally Posted by J Franklin

I once bought a car from the Peterson museum in Los Angeles. It was surely not up to display standards. The donation to the museum and subsequent sale helped keep things running, and the car did not go to a scrap yard. The donor was able to take a tax wright-off. We all need to think through our needs and motives for the actions we take and act accordingly. I personally love museums of all kinds.

I would think that your transaction would be SOP for museums. There's no way that they could display everything that was donated to them. They have to make decisions on what will be displayed and most visitors appreciate seeing the best of the best.

[theHIGHLANDER]

Originally Posted by Jim Parker Toronto

My grandson and I loved the new Ford Museum, there was so much there as well as a small history lesson for him that included Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, and Harvey Firestone. It was hard to explain that it was a Model A Museum, that there was other cars inside as well. It was a wonderful worthwhile trip for both of us. Old Blue ran 694 miles round trip effortlessly, and without a problem. The only disappointment for me was when I saw the chopped coupe with a chevy engine was allowed to go in with the original A's. There was another sedan there that had a 289 and an automatic in it, but the outside looked close to original, and it seemed the driver had a medical condition that would not let him shift gears, so....in my books, he gets a pass.

Is the fact that the early Fords are an icon of more than one genre a bad thing? Had it been a Deuce museum...

[msmaron]

As some know that comment that Tom posted came from a Club member in MY Illinois Region, Absurd and embarrassing to say the least!.. In fact actually a very ignorant statement..Museums and this museum is magnificent. Institutions as these are the future for our generations.. and as far as the hording...gosh glad someone horded the declaration of independence and the constitution while they were at it !!

[Doug in NJ]

Here's a story about how the Brooklyn Museum (a big art museum) got in 1932 a bequest of large art collection from a wealthy businessman and collector. But a lot of the stuff turned out to be fake or of poor quality, and a condition of the donation was that they could never sell any of it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/16/ar...rned.html?_r=0

Doug

[Ross/Kzoo]

I took a tour of a museum a couple of years ago and they showed us the out buildings with tons of trashy pieces in it. I asked what was to happen to these donated items and was told that they would be donated or sold to continue the ongoing expenses of the museum.

So the museums may not want that inner tube that you took out of your Model A in 1935.

[J Franklin]

That inner-tube just may end up in a depression era garage exhibit. One thing good about donating to a museum is if the item is eventually sold to raise working capital the museum staff should be able to find the right match for the item, or offer it in the right category.

[Roadster62]

The GREAT museums were started by people with a passion for the cars, these are the ones i enjoy seeing. Any time there is a commettie running things, tax writeoffs, back door deals, National Club funding things I tend to avoid them. There is one that I'll never set foot in based on the way it was founded and currently funded. I hope to see all of the Gilmore collection some day. Bob

[Tom Wesenberg]

Be sure to arrive early, as there's a lot to see. You can also take a lot of detail shots to help with restoring a car. Bring a picnic lunch as they have tables for you to sit at, and beautiful shade trees.

[59mgaguy]

There is no Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy. Museums are a business and your gifts to them are theirs to use or sell as they see fit. I've been to the auctions at Henry Ford's Museum where they've been getting rid of their cars to the highest bidder. And Crawford in Cleveland has always been selling of their donated cars. Crawford also had parties where their guest has taken the cars for the day. One over heated and the fool using the car poured water over the over heated engine and cracked it. Myself, if I was to give any of my cars to a museum it would be to AACA. But I am not naive to believe that they would keep it for others to enjoy till the end of days.

[31 Woody]

With millions of Model A's built, I am not at all worried about them all getting hidden in museums. While I have mixed feelings about them selling a car very quickly without ever taking it into inventory, I do see the value for them to generate operating capital by selling excess inventory. This keeps the museum in the black, allows them an opportunity to change up displays to keep it fresh, and may keep admission prices down a bit.
Dave

[luckyal]

59mga What a new perspective for me. I have donated three cars to museums and now I will check to see that they still are on display !
Thanks Al

[al's28/33]

Sell your cars to the highest bidder instead of donating them to anyone, at least you can then spend the money on yourself rather than letting the museum get the proceeds.

The Harrah's Car Collection in Reno, Nevada was one of the largest in the world until they decided to scale down and many original classics were sold off to private collections. Now known as the National Car Collection, I think they still have revolving display cars that have come and gone.

[jkeesey]

A buddy of mine loans his truck to a museum every winter and gets it back in the spring. Its like a free winter storage.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

Is the fact that the early Fords are an icon of more than one genre a bad thing? Had it been a Deuce museum...

That's not a bad thing, however, the MAFFI museum is dedicated to original model A's. chuck

[luckyal]

I checked my donation agreements and bottom line, the cars are theirs to do whatever necessary for the efficient operation and maintenance of the museum. Maybe I was naive but I thought they would be there forever ! Live and learn I guess !
Al

[jkeesey]

Hey Al, next time donate them to me! I'll show them everyday.

[Bob-A]

Keith True,

Wow, that's an interesting tid-bit of info about the Smithsonian! When I die I "was" going to have my '65 Harley donated to the Smithsonian. Along with my and my dogs ashes secreted in the frame. Not now!

Bob-A

[Keith True]

Back when this happened,around 1974 or 75,the Smithsonian had an extensive collection of motorcycles.They weren't being hoarded,they were being culled to put together a display.A few hundred were going to be sold off when the display was decided on.There already is a collection of Harleys from every year built,all in one spot,I believe it is owned by Harley but it may be a private collection.Either way,it's available to the public.The woman that had donated the Hup and the Auburn was a little upset that her cars were just dumped,but after she thought it through she realized she had not been lied to,because she had never asked the right question.The comments by the museum evaluators were things like,these will make a fine addition to a collection,and the biggest line was,we will never touch this car,we will leave it just like it is.That one was the truth and she remembered it forever.

[JBill]

Two things:

First thing: The Smithsonian budget keeps getting slashed dramatically by one of those political parties we hear so much about, and I'll just let you guess which one. The upshot is that they can neither display nor maintain all of what they have and often have to liquidate parts of the collection in order to keep afloat.

The other thing: The real hoarders that the museum-hater should complain about are these guys who have a barn (or more likely a field) full of old cars and parts, none of which they will ever sell, none of which they will ever restore, all of which will eventually rust into dust. But they're mine, they'll say, and so I can do what I want with them, which is evidently to watch them disappear.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

It just seems to me that as the decades go past, that fewer things of value are held sacred anymore.

[Jason in TX]

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Oddly enough, a car posted on Ford Barn this morning from a museum collection in San Diego.

If you want to see the antique cars they are selling on Craigslist, CLICK HERE

[jkeesey]

At museum prices ta boot.

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

Is the fact that the early Fords are an icon of more than one genre a bad thing? Had it been a Deuce museum...

"The only disappointment for me was when I saw the chopped coupe with a chevy engine was allowed to go in with the original A's." Quote by Jim

The fact that this was a Model A event dedicated to ORIGINAL cars, and that we were allowed on the grounds with our cars, I felt the Hot Rod belonged in the regular parking lot.

This is my opinion as stated, and you have the right to disagree, after all it is a FREE country, but am I not allowed the same privilege without being ridiculed?

By the way, this is not a DEUCE museum, and I would have not been there if it was....

[59mgaguy]

If you want others to see and enjoy your car don't give it to the museum. Put it on loan with stipulations that it be cared for while in their possession.

[theHIGHLANDER]

Originally Posted by Jim Parker Toronto

"The only disappointment for me was when I saw the chopped coupe with a chevy engine was allowed to go in with the original A's." Quote by Jim

The fact that this was a Model A event dedicated to ORIGINAL cars, and that we were allowed on the grounds with our cars, I felt the Hot Rod belonged in the regular parking lot.

This is my opinion as stated, and you have the right to disagree, after all it is a FREE country, but am I not allowed the same privilege without being ridiculed?

By the way, this is not a DEUCE museum, and I would have not been there if it was....

Damn it kid, put the Tommy Gun down! You're making my point even more as there's nothing more "original" in the vintage car world as a Model A. Arguably the 2nd most iconic car in American history, it has and continues to appeal to a vast majority. For the record I simply asked a question. I didn't mean for you to internalize it so much. Personally I think rod or stock, and any variation in between belongs as long as it's a Model A. Good thing there wasn't a plethora of As with smaller diameter wire wheels on em...

[Jim Parker Toronto]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

Damn it kid, put the Tommy Gun down! You're making my point even more as there's nothing more "original" in the vintage car world as a Model A. Arguably the 2nd most iconic car in American history, it has and continues to appeal to a vast majority. For the record I simply asked a question. I didn't mean for you to internalize it so much. Personally I think rod or stock, and any variation in between belongs as long as it's a Model A. Good thing there wasn't a plethora of As with smaller diameter wire wheels on em...

Mr Highlander.... according to the Touring Class Judging Standards, as issued by The Model A Restorers Club, (ever heard of them?) I would loose 10 points for a car with a smaller diameter wire wheel on it. How much do you loose for a "chopped top?" Please check #1 and #7 of the entry criteria..... it would not be allowed in for judging

I am still in the realm of Model A, Jim

[Mike V. Florida]

If you want to donate your car to be kept in a museum forever forget it! If you want to donate your car to help a museum, either by having it displayed or sold for funds to keep the museum running then do so. If you don't want it sold give it to them on loan form you or your estate as mentioned earlier.

I would though be careful of "museums" that seem to sell off the vehicles after only being on "display" for a short while. There is one of those that sells cars all the time on Ebay.

[theHIGHLANDER]

Originally Posted by Jim Parker Toronto

Mr Highlander.... according to the Touring Class Judging Standards, as issued by The Model A Restorers Club, (ever heard of them?) I would loose 10 points for a car with a smaller diameter wire wheel on it. How much do you loose for a "chopped top?" Please check #1 and #7 of the entry criteria..... it would not be allowed in for judging

I am still in the realm of Model A, Jim

I understand judging, rules, authenticity, et al perhaps more than most. My clients have collectively nearly 130 awards to back that up. I wasn't aware that personal celebration of one of "OUR" favorite cars would be held to those standards. My personal goal would be a "Henry Award" winning 31 pickup parked right next to a fenderless 30/31 coupe with a 3" chop, a full house Nailhead full of carbs, sittin on Deuce rails with hairpin front suspension (or split 'bones). The best part about that? Both would be Model As, both would also "represent" in today's vernacular. If my loving all of em regardless of authenticity is a character flaw it's one I'm shamelessly proud of. Let me be clear here that is not a pissing contest. It's my opinion. It's what I think is an open minded approach vs one stifled in rules and standards. Happily I'm one of MILLIONS who think the same way, but there as this 1 guy who didn't think the A was good enough "as-is" for him. I think his LeBaron Phaeton was on display according to the pics shared in the A museum opening post. Just sayin. 1st cup of coffee on me if we ever meet.


Jocko "theHighlander" McNeal

[t-head]

The Larz Anderson Auto Museum in Brookline, Mass. is one of the best around....Check them out.

Patina, Provenance, Originality – Thoughtful Preservation of Collectible Automobiles: The Larz Anderson Auto Museum of Brookline, Massachusetts, renowned for housing America’s oldest car collection opened their new exhibit: Patina, Provenance, Originality: Thoughtful Preservation of Collectible Automobiles, on May 10th. Preservation of important automobiles, as both historic artifacts and industrial art, provides an important window into the technological ingenuity and design acumen of the early pioneers in auto manufacturing, motor racing, and the changes the automobile brought to America in the 20th Century. David Northey, Walter Owen Bentleys grandson, is seen here giving a speech to the attendees on the subject of originality.

The Larz Anderson Collection containing some of the rarest and most original early cars in the world, will be on display in addition to the vintage racing cars, and the other 1906-1955 automobiles choosen for the exhibit, to illustrate the principles that guide collectors of important automobiles. See many more photos and more info at The Old Motor.

[hefty lefty]

Originally Posted by JBill

The other thing: The real hoarders that the museum-hater should complain about are these guys who have a barn (or more likely a field) full of old cars and parts, none of which they will ever sell, none of which they will ever restore, all of which will eventually rust into dust. But they're mine, they'll say, and so I can do what I want with them, which is evidently to watch them disappear.

Nine times out of ten this guy is not paying his taxes or has some other issue that when the right people get whiff of......