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Old 02-22-2013, 11:43 AM   #1
LSJUNIPER
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Default Flathead project

This is a flathead motor I bought to tinker around with, I want to learn more about these motors. I believe it's a 39 to 41.

101_0884.jpg

101_0882.jpg


Will attach more pics as I brake the motor down..
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: Flathead project

Side view shows the '39-40 bulges, it seems to have the long crank so not 1938.
Next--pop a head and we can tell for sure whether 221 or 239 originally. It has pulley setup for big truck, and many of those came with 239.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: Flathead project

It was out of a big truck or a stationary engine. It had a generator fan. Sounds like a worth while project. G.M.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Flathead project

if it was out of a big truck try and find a set of heads from a car, truck heads are low compression
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: Flathead project

Weren't the bell housings attached to the block up until 1948 or 49? After that they could be split off, I think..???
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:43 PM   #6
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Default Re: Flathead project

I think you need to get it off that motor stand ASAP. You may find it in the floor, if not now its a good chance when you start swinging a wrench on it. The rear of the blocks on the 48 and back cant stand the pressure.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Flathead project

From here I'd call it a 42. It will pass the pencil test and I cain't see any bluges in the pan rail for any core plugs. See if the intake manafold gasket surface is raised up a little from the block. Walt
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Flathead project

Hey Walt, I stopped by your place in my 39 P/U in 2006 on my way to Nova Scotia. I had a shrould and a 6 bladed fan on the generator if you recall. G.M.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:02 AM   #9
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Default Re: Flathead project

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Originally Posted by G.M. View Post
Hey Walt, I stopped by your place in my 39 P/U in 2006 on my way to Nova Scotia. I had a shrould and a 6 bladed fan on the generator if you recall. G.M.
Hey GM. I remember that, it was a nice summer day. You and your wife and a friend of mine, we set in lawn chairs in from my shop and had great visit. I remember you drove in my drive and got out, opened the hood and pointed you heat gun at everything under the hood,it was running as cool a clam with Ships pumps, 6 bladded fan, shrould. Stop in again when you go to Nova Scotia. Walt
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: Flathead project

I took the oil pan off, there is four freeze plugs. Does that make it a 39 to 41? The person I bought it from said it came out of a truck. The water pumps also had double pulleys......
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:04 AM   #11
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Default Re: Flathead project

The intake and heads are off.

~8755551.jpg

~9280949.jpg
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:06 AM   #12
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Default Re: Flathead project

The motor is stuck, I will be soaking it in oil....
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Flathead project

The water pumps are truck. Scrape around the top of the cyl and see if you can see a sign of sleeves in the cyl. The 40-1 had sleeves, I don't think the 39 had sleeves. Walt
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:53 AM   #14
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Default Re: Flathead project

It's hard to tell from the photo, but it does not look full of rust and crud in the bores, they look quite clean. So if stuck, it may not have been stuck for long. Again, hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like it may be relieved. My relieved blocks are sort of machined out with a parallel sided cut. That looks like it is shaped to the gasket, ie hand done.
I may be imagining the relief, hard to tell from the pics.

I'd be pulling the starter and pumps, manifold and distributor. Anything to take weight off it. You have already been told about the dangers of supporting on the early bellhousing.

If you pull the sump you can lever against the ring gear teeth to try and turn it.

Be very careful though, it's easy to overdo it, an engine on a stand is very top-heavy.

Mart.

Edit: Ignore my ramblings re the relief, the gasket is still on, isn't it?

Oh yeah, measured the bore yet? A rough measurement should be good enough to tell the original size.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:05 AM   #15
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Default Re: Flathead project

Pull the front cover and the cam gear. The valves are probably stuck. If you pry on it too hard you could ruin a good cam and some lifters. Harley
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:28 AM   #16
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Default Re: Flathead project

is the passenger side exhaust manifold rusted out??...otherwise, bores, etc. do look clean....under intake??...keep on having fun....Mike
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: Flathead project

Marvel mystery oil is a good oil to soak the engine in--ive used it on several...good luck. gump
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:40 AM   #18
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Default Re: Flathead project

Thanks for all of the advise, Marvel mystery oil, OK will do. The cylinders mic out at 3.06 dia. Will keep you all posted on my progress. Mart I will figure out a better way to prop the motor. For now was thinking of supporting the end opposite the stand with a saw horse???

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Old 02-25-2013, 12:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: Flathead project

3.06? sounds like a 221 cu in motor at 3-1/16" on a standard bore. Plenty more meat in that one if you want to go bigger. Early days yet, most important thing to be looking for is cracks. Check all around the head faces and around the bottom of the block on the sump face and inside and outside the block around the sump face.

Can't recommend anything re extra support as I can't guarantee what will work. (But anything is better than nothing)

Mart.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: Flathead project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me. View Post
Hey GM. I remember that, it was a nice summer day. You and your wife and a friend of mine, we set in lawn chairs in from my shop and had great visit. I remember you drove in my drive and got out, opened the hood and pointed you heat gun at everything under the hood,it was running as cool a clam with Ships pumps, 6 bladded fan, shrould. Stop in again when you go to Nova Scotia. Walt
Not being form New England,just exactly how" cool is a clam"[just for the record.LOL Phil
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:28 PM   #21
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Heads off...freeze plug bulges confirmed...'39-40 221
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:02 AM   #22
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Default Re: Flathead project

Distributor, water pumps, oil pan removed, yuk!!!! what a mess in side the block...sludge city!!! LOL!!! So far I can't see any cracks.

101_0892.jpg

101_0893.jpg
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:31 AM   #23
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Took the head gaskets off yet?

Mart.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:57 AM   #24
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Default Re: Flathead project

Mart,
I left the head gaskets on for now, to protect the mating surface from being damaged while taking the motor apart.

2012-12-29_12-03-35_363.jpg

2012-12-04_21-07-31_436.jpg
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:04 AM   #25
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I think this motor has had work done to it in the past, found one of the tappets to be slotted, the rest are the non slotted type..

2012-12-29_12-07-26_346.jpg
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:53 AM   #26
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Default Re: Flathead project

Some more pics,

2012-12-29_12-47-06_519.jpg

2012-12-31_12-16-41_201.jpg

2013-01-02_17-20-53_82.jpg

2012-12-29_12-04-22_471.jpg

2013-01-07_11-08-34_428.jpg
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:58 AM   #27
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Default Re: Flathead project

And more, Almost ready to bring the block to the machine shop for claeaning and a mag test for cracks. If all OK then a pressure test...I desided that I will bring the block to Eastwoods Auto Machine...
~0513779.jpg

2013-01-07_11-08-24_432.jpg
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:09 AM   #28
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Default Re: Flathead project

The last "Flathead" I tore down and got to this point, pulling the pan was painfull. It had the dreaded pan rail cracks on both side
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:15 AM   #29
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Hey Phil, up here in Me. the salt water is alot cooler than it is in Florida. the clams have to bury in the mud the keep warm. LOL Walt
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:24 AM   #30
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I don't see any sign of the steel sleeves in the bottom end pic. If it's still 3-1/16 I'd call it a 39 engine. Walt
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:48 AM   #31
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Walt, there isn't any sleeves, I will call it a 39..No cracks in the block that I can see...
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:54 AM   #32
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The block does not have any cracks in it and it passed the pressure test. More pics...


2013-03-01_12-17-56_600.jpg

2013-03-01_12-18-55_453.jpg

2013-03-01_12-19-13_951.jpg

2013-03-01_12-19-36_811.jpg
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:07 AM   #33
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Looks very nice. Congrats on the crack free status. What process did they use to clean it up?

Mart.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:28 AM   #34
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It was dipped in a hot tank about 3 times, 2 days per dip. Mark at Eastwoods auto said it was a dirty block. After the hot dip Mark pressure washed it. He then rough bored the cylinders .030 over.
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:00 AM   #35
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Update, the motor is home from the machine shop, Eastwoods Auto Machine in Somersville CT. Took the advise of quickchange34 and mart and made a bracket to hold the motor from the exhaust ports...see pics...Thanks

~3338253.jpg

2013-05-28_14-48-12_885.jpg
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:13 AM   #36
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Default Re: Flathead project

I keep looking at the intake manifold surface on the block, Of all the pic I still cain't tell if it's a raised intake surface, in some of the pic it looks like it does. But, the engines with a raised surface were late 41-42 and had sleeves, so with no sleeves I'd call it a 39. Walt
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:25 AM   #37
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Walt, Yes it's a 39. Went to VanPelt sales webpage and I was able to figure it out by there section on how to ID a flathead motor....
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:56 PM   #38
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I see the head studs have been removed. Did this present any problems? It seems like the hardest problem with the crusty blocks I have worked on.
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:58 PM   #39
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I did try and remove the head studs myself, but they wouldn't budge. When the block was dipped into the cleaning tank the studs then were able to be removed. I had the machine shop remove them and two of them had to be drilled out.
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:04 PM   #40
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Just a little warning - don't run a tap down the head stud holes - they are a tight thread and a tap will open them out. Use a thread restorer or an old stud or bolt with a slot cut in it.

If you already knew this I apologise, but it isn't obvious to a novice.

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Old 05-30-2013, 02:12 AM   #41
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Thanks Mart,
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:22 AM   #42
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Default Re: Flathead project

Looking at the earlier photos, I see that the engine has an internal coating of that special black protective substance (some call it sludge, but I think it's a flathead's way of protecting itself during longterm outside storage). Maybe there's even a Ford part number for it?
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quickchange34 View Post
I think you need to get it off that motor stand ASAP. You may find it in the floor, if not now its a good chance when you start swinging a wrench on it. The rear of the blocks on the 48 and back cant stand the pressure.
Old Wives Tale !!!!
been building them for 40+ years on a stand like that !
Have 6 on stands at the moment !
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Old 05-31-2013, 04:23 PM   #44
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Quote:
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Old Wives Tale !!!!
been building them for 40+ years on a stand like that !
Have 6 on stands at the moment !
Why take chances!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:55 PM   #45
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haha 40 Deluxe, there was a lot of that black protective coating inside that motor too. Speaking of coating, I just pruchased POR-15 engine enamal for the block. I have read that some people use a base coat before using the engine enamal, if so what is the base coat???
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:20 PM   #46
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Didn't want to take a chance putting the motor back onto the stand the way I first did. So I modified the stand to hold the motor by its exhaust ports. Per quickchange34s' advice, didn’t want to chance it. Then I added another caster wheel to it from 3 casters to 4 , for stability. See the pics .
Thanks


one.jpg

two.jpg

three.JPG

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Old 06-02-2013, 05:53 PM   #47
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Quote:
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Why take chances!!!!!!!!!
after all these years & dozens of engines ....... like I said "An old Wives Tale " not even about taking a chance !!!!
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:00 PM   #48
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Kiwinus do you have a website for your shop? Sounds interesting.. This is my first Flathead.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:44 AM   #49
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Some progress this weekend.
Painted the block and attached it to the motor stand.

4.jpg

5.jpg
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Old 06-17-2013, 02:02 PM   #50
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Default Re: Flathead project

Just a reminder about supporting that engine....I've read plenty of horror stories here on The Barn about broken bell housings and smashed tootsies. That type of stand is not good for a flathead.
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Old 06-17-2013, 03:34 PM   #51
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That paint better not be Chevy orange, if so it will never start say nothing about running. Walt
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:54 PM   #52
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Nope. It's not Chevy orange....the engine is supported from the exhaust bolts...thanks for your advise.

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Old 07-31-2013, 10:36 AM   #53
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Starting to reassemble the motor!!

I1375255754.jpg

I1375255815.jpg
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:14 PM   #54
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How was Eastwoods to deal with? I live nearby. I ended up taking my Flathead to Earl's in Stafford. Still waiting.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:25 PM   #55
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I am pleased with Eastwoods work, I would go back if I ever decide to build another motor. They have a facebook page, check it out.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:51 PM   #56
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Nice work on the engine! I have the original 81A that was in my 38 Sedan. I hope to do something similar during some future Oregon Winter days. I currently have a rebuilt 1946 59 block in my car and it runs pretty nice. Nice pictures, thanks!
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:10 PM   #57
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LS Juniper, I see the block is tapped and plugged with an extra plug above the oil sender boss (casting lump) Just be sure there is no plug blocking the cross drilling.(inside the horizontal drilling) It would stop oil flowing to your crankshaft.
The Canadian military engines were built like this for its 28,000 Bren carriers, because they ran an external oil cooler. The U.S. supplied engines for Australia's 8000 carriers as well as 1100 for New Zealand's carriers. (all of these were 239c.i.) Along with these many 221's were supplied to the U.K. All these engines had that extra drilling. I don't know how many were produced for local (U.S)applications in this configuration. There were obviously quite a few. The plus is, it allows the fitting of a near full flow filtering system, without serious mods.
Walt has a few clips on you tube about those drillings. Be careful.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:44 AM   #58
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Thanks Bluebell,
When I get home form work today I will take a closer look.
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:51 AM   #59
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Thank you Fredb, This has been a fun project, can't wait to finally start it up.
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:07 PM   #60
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Got a question, should I use the split type retainers on the valves, or should I go with the solid type? I put an isky cam in. It's the 77-b. I read that the split retainers can separate and do damage to the motor.....l don't want to mess this up....Thanks
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:50 AM   #61
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Found this on line, solid retainers are the better choice...

http://www.reds-headers.com/html/red...e_talk_16.html
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:52 PM   #62
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Default Re: Flathead project

This may seem like a silly question, but does this rope seal look like it was installed right?? (See first pic) When I put the crankshaft in it didn't fit right. I have a feeling I didn't press the rope seal on far enough. It looks like one of the raised areas on the crank fits into the rope seal area and rides aginst the seal?? (See pic 2) Thank for the help..
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:15 PM   #63
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Default Re: Flathead project

To use a rope seal in this motor you need a new seal carrier (upper and lower half) and to have the crank grinder remove the slinger from your crank.
I think that is the correct info.

See the inside shape of the seal carrier. Go to Vanpelts. about $10.00 each half.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:47 AM   #64
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In 1939 there wasn't a rear rope seal, just the oil slinger???
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:27 AM   #65
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looks great do you plan on keeping the rest stock? like heads/intake/headers?
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:36 AM   #66
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Flatheadz-forever,
I want to use new aluminum heads with the 3 carb intake and headers.. I also want to use the crab style distributor conversion...
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:23 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSJUNIPER View Post
In 1939 there wasn't a rear rope seal, just the oil slinger???
Yes.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:02 PM   #68
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Thanks all!
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:31 PM   #69
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Default Re: Flathead project

Here is a better shot of the seal carrier
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:54 PM   #70
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From RedsHeaders.

What can you do if you want a rope rear main seal in your 1932-41 flathead V8?
If you are working on a 1932-41 flathead engine that is late enough to have the pot metal labyrinth seal inserts, both top and bottom, it is easy to make the change. You may just change the crankshaft and seal pieces for the later parts.
If your engine is a 221 cubic inch, you will probably want to stay with a 1.998" journal and early full floating rods. The rods for 2.138" journals will not pass through the 3 1/16" cylinder bores.
You can use a 1949-53 crankshaft in the early engines. You would have to turn the main journals down to 2.398" to fit in the mid-1936 through 1938 block. You also have to relieve either the block or the crankshaft at the rear of the front main and both sides of the center main journal. If it is a 4" stroke crankshaft with the rod journals offset ground on 4 1/8" stroke to 1.998" size, you can use 21A and/or 91A rods which will pass through the 3 1/16" cylinder bores.
When mixing crankshafts, rods, and blocks, use the correct bearing set for the housings (block and rods) in the correct undersize for the journals of the crankshaft.
For the 1932 through mid-1936 blocks, you can grind the crankshaft rear labyrinth slinger away to a 2.498" surface. Then install an upper seal retainer for a rope and an aftermarket adaptor type seal retainer in the main cap. That way you can use the stock rope seals.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:55 AM   #71
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Wow!!
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:30 AM   #72
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Can loctite be used in the place of the wire used on the crank and rods?
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:04 PM   #73
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check where the intake sits it is my understanding a 41 block is raised were the intake sits and a 39-40 is flat also a 41 I believe has core plugs in the oil pad rails
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:06 PM   #74
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looks like a 41
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:41 PM   #75
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Timing cover,on!

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:49 PM   #76
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Can I ask what you did about the rear main seal?
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:52 AM   #77
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I put it back together the way it was done originally in 1939.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:41 PM   #78
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very nice best of luck
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:52 PM   #79
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Just finished adjusting the valves. I used one of those lifter wrenches from Speedway Motors. I had a difficult time at first, the tool kept slipping out of the holes in the adjustable lifters. Check out the pic, it shows what I put together as a tool to help hold the lifter wrench in place, simple but effective. Hope this will help any one else who may have the same prob with lifter wrenches slipping out of position...

valve.jpg
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:39 AM   #80
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Next, will be putting the pistons into the block.....


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Old 09-12-2013, 11:43 AM   #81
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very nice any more updates?
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Old 09-13-2013, 04:55 AM   #82
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Thank you flatheadz-forever, I should have some update pics early next week. I have to say that this project has been fun, I am learning a lot about these awesome motors.
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:17 AM   #83
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Any recommendations on what type of sealant if any on the gaskets?
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:55 PM   #84
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permatex black utv
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:49 AM   #85
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Thanks
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:49 PM   #86
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That stuff has never let me down
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:42 AM   #87
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Some progress, sent the distributor to Bubba's Hot Rod Shop a few days ago and will be sending the water pumps out tomorrow to Skip's. Hope to drop the pistons in this week, will post pics when I do.....
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:55 AM   #88
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Finally!!! Pistons are in the block!!
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:17 AM   #89
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It looks like a nice tidy job!

Excellent work!

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Old 10-01-2013, 10:34 AM   #90
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Thanks Mart!
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:37 PM   #91
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Received my water pumps from Skips today. One of the pumps has a warped pulley, not Skips fault, when I sent them I thought that the shaft was frozen on one of them but now I realized the pulley is touching the pump body. My questoin is how can a I change out the warped pulley for a new one?
Thanks
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:23 PM   #92
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Distributor update.
When this project started i hoped that lsjuniper would use the factory helmet with the build. You just cant beat the helmet when set up and ready to go.
The picture shows the before and after , we have a very mad and dead spider , we named him Henry..
I have to replace the coil and hope to have a good used one to test tomorrow. The old coil had a shorted (open) primary coil and was junk....
Anyway heres todays update......
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Old 10-09-2013, 04:56 AM   #93
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OMG!!!! I'm speechless?!?!?!?! Nice job!!!
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:15 PM   #94
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very nice looks great!
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:08 AM   #95
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The old coil had a open primary winding, dug around in the parts box and found a like new Niehoff unit. Ran on tester runs good.
Should look good with the new engine etc.......

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Old 10-11-2013, 09:21 AM   #96
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Lsjuniper, I would be be checking for cracks before spending a lot of time on it. The bad ones are between the valves and the cylinders, the center cooling openings say big truck to me. If it passes the crack test, take the cam gear off to see if the bottom end will turn over, good luck Chuck S.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:24 AM   #97
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sorry I just read the first page!
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:32 AM   #98
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No prob Chuck.
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:14 PM   #99
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Can't wait to put that Distributor on the motor!!!
Thanks
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:33 AM   #100
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Some more work done to the motor, here are some pics..

IMG_20131031_093617_096.jpg

IMG_20131031_093652_223.jpg

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Old 10-31-2013, 11:04 AM   #101
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looks good!
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:42 AM   #102
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Very nice job! I'm not sure I'll have the funds to do such a nice job on mine, but thanks for sharing the entire process and have fun!
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:05 PM   #103
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nice.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:42 AM   #104
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Thanks!!!
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:42 AM   #105
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Finally made some progress...!!

IMG_20140418_102718_793.jpg

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Old 04-22-2014, 11:49 AM   #106
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I like the tool you made to hold the adjustment wrenches in place. It looks like it would work well. have a question : Do you have to use a wrench to tighten it up enough to work, or can it be used finger-tight?
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:10 PM   #107
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wow congrates on a fine job rebuilding your flathead. That orange color looks very similar to the stock color on my 53 engine.
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:17 PM   #108
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tubman, I didn't need a wrench to tighten up the tool I used for the adjustment wrench. Adjust it just enough to fall in place, used a hooked piece of wire to pull it out for the next one...adjusted as needed.. it worked well
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:21 PM   #109
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Tiquer, Thanks!! bought the paint from POR 15, they have a selection on engine enamal paint...
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:03 AM   #110
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Put the intake on last night...


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Old 06-04-2014, 10:03 AM   #111
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Nice work LSJ !
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:50 AM   #112
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Thanks, It has been quite the project so far, large learning curve! But the guys here on the Ford Barn can take a lot of credit too. The people here have been a huge help..
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:55 AM   #113
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Great work! Very nice.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:01 AM   #114
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Thanks Tinker..
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:58 PM   #115
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Glad to see your getting it done, IMPRESSIVE---Gary
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Old 06-05-2014, 04:50 AM   #116
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Thanks Gary, Hope to fire it up some time this summer....
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Old 06-09-2014, 04:59 AM   #117
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Put the carbs on and the breather...


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Old 06-10-2014, 08:31 AM   #118
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That really looks great!!
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Old 06-10-2014, 04:53 PM   #119
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Thanks biggeorge
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:54 AM   #120
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Question, are the pulleys on my water pumps considered wide or thin??? See pics posted previously. Thanks for the help.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:01 AM   #121
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Look like wide to me. You only get thin belts on later type (Post 59A) pumps.

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Old 07-31-2014, 04:49 AM   #122
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OK, Thanks Mart..
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:53 AM   #123
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Thanks to BUBBAS IGNITION!!!!!!

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Old 07-31-2014, 06:20 AM   #124
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Thats a sweet lookin' set up!
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:30 AM   #125
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Thank you....
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:15 AM   #126
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Looks great!!!
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:18 AM   #127
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Default Re: Flathead project

Just read your thread, don't know how I missed it. Seems like you lucked out from the get go and have there one fine flathead. What are you putting it in. I didn't see any info on that.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:30 AM   #128
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LS,
Thanks for taking the time to share this project with us. Never having taken a flathead apart, I really appreciate seeing what you did with yours and reading all the accompanying posts.
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Old 07-31-2014, 02:31 PM   #129
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LSJUNIPER, very nice job. I love it. What are you using for a cam? Stock or performance? Where did you get the carbs? Do you know what the jets and power valves size are? I'm full of questions. Thanks Walt
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Old 07-31-2014, 02:31 PM   #130
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LOOKS GREAT, and your pulleys are wide belt, as is proper for your flathead! Gary
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:03 PM   #131
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wow just read through the thread. Great work! I hope the flathead i'm getting this weekend is a good one.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:15 PM   #132
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I really like this build. What are you planning to put this engine in when you finish?
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Old 08-02-2014, 08:21 PM   #133
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Thanks for all the interest and compliments. The cam is an Isky, 77B, mild cam...the carbs are from Speedway Motors, its there Super 7 Carbs. I purchased there kit. It comes with the carbs and the intake. I am going to put the motor in a 29A frame I also purchased from Speedway. A friend of mine used to make frames for dragsters, he is going to weld it up for me on his frame table.I am not sure what I am going to put on the frame as far as a body. I really would like to put a modal A coupe body on the frame, but I am finding out that they are hard to come by. I have thought of putting a 1946 ford truck body on the frame...We will see when I get there....
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:14 AM   #134
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Very nice work!! Thank you for posting your progress and showing us all this renewed Flatty!

Kevin
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:36 AM   #135
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I have a question. If I use the original flywheel and mate up a T-5 trans will I need to use a ball bearing in the center bore like the one I removed?

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Old 01-09-2015, 11:39 AM   #136
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I have a question. If I use the original flywheel and mate up a T-5 trans will I need to use a ball bearing in the center bore like the one I removed?

Attachment 208681

Attachment 208682
I am using a pilot bushing in my T-5 installation but there are those who use a bearing like yours. I feel sure we will get comments either for or against.
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Old 01-10-2015, 05:38 AM   #137
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OK, Thanks sidevalve8ba...
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Old 01-10-2015, 07:36 AM   #138
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In your first photo I noticed a chain hoist. I fabricated a couple of straps and bolted them to #1 and 5 exhaust ports and used a hoist to stabilize the front of my 8BA until I can make a side exhaust plate for my stand. Cheap peace of mind.
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Old 01-10-2015, 08:04 AM   #139
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I have a question. If I use the original flywheel and mate up a T-5 trans will I need to use a ball bearing in the center bore like the one I removed?

Attachment 208681

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YES, Speedway has the right piolet bearing, fits the Ford flywheel and the T-5 shaft. Walt
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Old 01-10-2015, 09:00 AM   #140
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Just saw this long thread - great project and congrats on building a flathead . . . love it! You sure have learned a lot along the way and I'm sure you'll be one happy camper when you get to start it and hear it run.
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Old 01-10-2015, 09:24 AM   #141
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Yes,it's great to have more people building them, best education you;ll ever get. After a few dozen, you can do it in your sleep.right Walt.
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Old 01-10-2015, 09:32 AM   #142
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I hope you wear steel toe Shoe goodLuck.
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Old 01-10-2015, 12:09 PM   #143
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Yes, I hope to get it running in the spring, if all works out.
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Old 01-10-2015, 04:30 PM   #144
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Remember, no expensive engine stand. Just am ol tire and let her rip, listen for bad things and oil pressure. Then put it in the car and drive the PI** out of it.
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Old 01-10-2015, 05:39 PM   #145
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Looks like a raised deck 41 engine. Did 42s also have a raised deck?
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Old 01-10-2015, 08:09 PM   #146
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1941 and 1942 blocks are the same.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:34 AM   #147
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Nice truck 41LjH
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Old 01-12-2015, 02:51 PM   #148
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Great progress, that will make a super Hot Rod engine! Gary
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Old 02-04-2015, 06:21 AM   #149
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Put the oil pump cover on next will put the flywheel in...Making progress slow but sure...

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Old 02-04-2015, 10:32 AM   #150
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Did you put some Vaseline in the pumpbefore you put the cover on??
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Old 02-04-2015, 11:30 AM   #151
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I put some assembly lube on, is that OK??
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Old 02-04-2015, 04:14 PM   #152
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Put the oil pump cover on next will put the flywheel in...Making progress slow but sure...

Attachment 212049

Attachment 212050
That's an 11in. clutch flywheel, your not putting that engine a 5 ton dump truck are you?
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Old 02-05-2015, 05:57 AM   #153
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No Walt it's not going in a 5 ton dump truck. The person I bought it from told me that the motor came out of a delivery truck. Any advise on the flywheel before I put it on the motor? I want to use a T5 trans with this and I do plan on dropping the motor in a modal A frame.. Thanks
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:24 AM   #154
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If using Ford parts, consider running a cut-down Ford flywheel and a 10" clutch . . . or even a performance oriented 9" clutch (as they do rev nice and fast). Since you're going to be running it in a light car, you can decide whether you'd like to run a steel flywheel in the low to mid 20 lbs weight range or even go to a lightweight aluminum flywheel (which are just plain fun in my opinion). If you're buying "new", there are quite a few options out there - comes down to brand and money spent.

I'd checkout RAM Clutches - they have specific flywheel and clutch combinations for T5 trans, top-loaders, etc.. You'll find they have flywheels for 39-48, 49-53, aluminum/steel, etc.. You might want to talk to their tech departments.

Let us know what you find.

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Old 02-05-2015, 11:15 AM   #155
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I would vote for the aluminum flywheel and 9 inch clutch combination. Rotating mass and acceleration are related!! LOL
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:23 PM   #156
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No Walt it's not going in a 5 ton dump truck. The person I bought it from told me that the motor came out of a delivery truck. Any advise on the flywheel before I put it on the motor? I want to use a T5 trans with this and I do plan on dropping the motor in a modal A frame.. Thanks
I'd have that flywheel redrilled for a 9in. clutch, you can also have that wheel lightened to about 20# and balanced, I get my clutch and PP from Fort Wayne and have them install stiffer springs in the PP. Walt
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Old 02-09-2015, 11:44 AM   #157
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Was wondering, why is the 9" clutch preferred over the larger one that came with the this 39 motor? Is it a weight issue, performance thing??? Any info to educate me will be appreciated..
Thanks
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Old 02-09-2015, 12:02 PM   #158
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Performance as in acceleration. The issue is rotating mass and the distance from the centerline. You want the rotating mass as small as reasonable and as close to the centerline as possible. Something like the demonstrations of the skaters moving their arms in and out to increase and decrease rotating speed. A small amount of weight further from the centerline will make a difference in the ability of the flywheel, clutch plate and pressure plate to accelerate. The assemble should be as light and close to the centerline as possible but it is also dependent on the vehicles weight and gearing. A light car with low gearing likes a light rotating mass. As the car/truck's weight increases or using higher gear ratios, more rotating mass makes driving easier (less likely to kill the engine and/or have to slip the clutch to get it going) but acceleration suffers. Like everything it is a compromise.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:29 AM   #159
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Performance as in acceleration. The issue is rotating mass and the distance from the centerline. You want the rotating mass as small as reasonable and as close to the centerline as possible. Something like the demonstrations of the skaters moving their arms in and out to increase and decrease rotating speed. A small amount of weight further from the centerline will make a difference in the ability of the flywheel, clutch plate and pressure plate to accelerate. The assemble should be as light and close to the centerline as possible but it is also dependent on the vehicles weight and gearing. A light car with low gearing likes a light rotating mass. As the car/truck's weight increases or using higher gear ratios, more rotating mass makes driving easier (less likely to kill the engine and/or have to slip the clutch to get it going) but acceleration suffers. Like everything it is a compromise.
Couldn't have said it any better - exactly right!
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:49 AM   #160
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Thanks, I am now educated.
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Old 07-03-2015, 03:21 PM   #161
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It's been awhile since I have posted any progress on the flathead project...
That being said I finally was able to put the new flywheel, clutch and
pressure plate on today....!!

20150702_160330.jpg

20150703_155203.jpg

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Old 07-04-2015, 08:05 AM   #162
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And use the pilot bearing, not a bushing.. My bushing squeals like hell from time to time. I'll change it when I get around to pulling the engine !
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Old 07-04-2015, 01:14 PM   #163
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Yes, I did put a pilot bearing in the flywheel..if that's what you mean......
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Old 07-04-2015, 02:58 PM   #164
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Come up here to Me. Phil and we'll go to coast and get some clams. If there to cold we'll steam em. Walt
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:39 AM   #165
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Its been awhile since I posted on here, thought I would post an update. Attached are some pics of what the motor will be going in.



20161212_175954.jpg

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Old 01-11-2017, 01:00 PM   #166
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perfect!

if you don't mind my asking what did they charge you to hot tank your motor and pull the studs??

did you ever fire it??
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:24 PM   #167
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The hot tank, power wash, wire brush, was 75 bucks. the stud work was 120 bucks.
Have not started it yet. Was thinking of finishing the rolling chassis, installing the motor then start it up.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:48 AM   #168
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thanks... I'm in the springfield area and i'm always looking for decent machine work. same guy do the rest of your machine work?? did your crank need grinding too??
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:39 AM   #169
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Eastwoods Auto Machine did all of the machine work, they did grind and balance the crank. If I ever need work done that's the place I will go to.
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Old 03-06-2018, 05:54 AM   #170
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Finally dropping the motor into the frame.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:34 AM   #171
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Man, that is looking good! What clutch and pressure plate did you end up going with?
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Old 03-06-2018, 10:48 AM   #172
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looks nice, but seems like the motor is quite a ways back from the front crossmember. i trust you have had a body on?
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:55 AM   #173
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Man, that is looking good! What clutch and pressure plate did you end up going with?
Purchased the clutch and pressure plate from Speedway.
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:56 AM   #174
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looks nice, but seems like the motor is quite a ways back from the front crossmember. i trust you have had a body on?
Have not placed the body onto the frame yet. Will do that once I have a full rolling chassis.
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Old 03-07-2018, 04:33 PM   #175
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wow, my AV8 needed the front mounts only just behind the crossmember and the crankshaft nut was over the crossmember, in between the U bolts and is was still a very tight squeeze to firewall and this was a 28 , not a 31.

That chassis to me seems a lot longer than standard in the pics.

Is it still 103 1/2 inch wheelbase?
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:38 PM   #176
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Might be mid-engine ford coupe???
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:37 PM   #177
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How about a pic of the F100 you've got parked next to it?
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:35 PM   #178
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Being nosey, here...Did you pull the plugs out of the crank, to clean out the sludge, then replace with new plugs? (Few modern machinists know to do that, these days) I recently built a '49 239 and the crank was completely stopped up with asphalt-like crud. I got new plugs from VanPelt. With good oil and semi-full flow filter, the engine should out-last me!

You're doing beautiful work and that sucker should run like the wind! Can't wait to see the end results!
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Old 03-09-2018, 05:58 AM   #179
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wow, my AV8 needed the front mounts only just behind the crossmember and the crankshaft nut was over the crossmember, in between the U bolts and is was still a very tight squeeze to firewall and this was a 28 , not a 31.

That chassis to me seems a lot longer than standard in the pics.

Is it still 103 1/2 inch wheelbase?
I will take some measurements tonight.
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Old 03-09-2018, 06:02 AM   #180
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How about a pic of the F100 you've got parked next to it?
Here is the truck.
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:24 AM   #181
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Being nosey, here...Did you pull the plugs out of the crank, to clean out the sludge, then replace with new plugs? (Few modern machinists know to do that, these days) I recently built a '49 239 and the crank was completely stopped up with asphalt-like crud. I got new plugs from VanPelt. With good oil and semi-full flow filter, the engine should out-last me!

You're doing beautiful work and that sucker should run like the wind! Can't wait to see the end results!
Thanks, Had the block hot dipped before rebuilding it.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:51 AM   #182
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Testing if this thread is dead or is it me or is it the new server that Ryan has.

Last few weeks, this site has been lousy.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:30 PM   #183
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Thanks, Had the block hot dipped before rebuilding it.
But did you clean out the sludge traps in the crankshaft?
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Old 03-15-2018, 04:58 AM   #184
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But did you clean out the sludge traps in the crankshaft?
Yes, cleaned all the sludge out.
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Old 03-15-2018, 05:00 AM   #185
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Testing if this thread is dead or is it me or is it the new server that Ryan has.

Last few weeks, this site has been lousy.
Don't know. Seems to be alive and well.
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Old 03-15-2018, 08:11 AM   #186
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Yes, cleaned all the sludge out.
Not to be beating a dead horse here, but your answer isn't clear (at least to me). Tanking engine parts is not the same thing as removing the plugs in the crank and cleaning the passages. Unless the person doing the engine cleaning is familiar with flatheads and flathead cranks this could be easily overlooked. And it can lead to problems after the engine is assembled.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:19 AM   #187
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Not to be beating a dead horse here, but your answer isn't clear (at least to me). Tanking engine parts is not the same thing as removing the plugs in the crank and cleaning the passages. Unless the person doing the engine cleaning is familiar with flatheads and flathead cranks this could be easily overlooked. And it can lead to problems after the engine is assembled.
OK, I was the one who misunderstood the question. I am not sure if the machine shop did this. This is the first time I have heard about this and I am somewhat concerned now.
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Old 03-15-2018, 12:12 PM   #188
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OK, I was the one who misunderstood the question. I am not sure if the machine shop did this. This is the first time I have heard about this and I am somewhat concerned now.
Look at the sides of a crank throw (in line with the rod journal). You will see what looks like a small freeze plug. This should be obviously new-looking if they were removed and replaced after any accumulated gunk was cleaned out.
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:48 PM   #189
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Just spoke to the person who worked on the motor and I am happy to say that they do remove the plugs to clean out the gunk.
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Old 03-16-2018, 01:25 AM   #190
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Just spoke to the person who worked on the motor and I am happy to say that they do remove the plugs to clean out the gunk.
Good to hear! That stuff dries and hardens, then the hot tank loosens it. If it's not cleaned out, it gets pumped right through the bearings!
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Old 03-16-2018, 05:36 PM   #191
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Just spoke to the person who worked on the motor and I am happy to say that they do remove the plugs to clean out the gunk.
Sounds good!
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:47 AM   #192
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What sparkplugs would you recommend???
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Old 08-07-2018, 11:00 AM   #193
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Started to set the ladder bars into the frame.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:53 PM   #194
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Default Re: Flathead project

Depending on how flat/level a surface you are planning on driving on that type of setup can cause you some problems. Because the rear axle is rigged and can not flex, any rotation (side to side) about the centerline will be resisted by the ladder bars. In order to work properly they would have to rotate at a common point similar to the original ball arrangement. This is the same problem that exist with the tubular front axles and hairpin radius rods.
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Old 08-07-2018, 02:33 PM   #195
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^^^^ yep
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Old 08-08-2018, 04:57 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
Depending on how flat/level a surface you are planning on driving on that type of setup can cause you some problems. Because the rear axle is rigged and can not flex, any rotation (side to side) about the centerline will be resisted by the ladder bars. In order to work properly they would have to rotate at a common point similar to the original ball arrangement. This is the same problem that exist with the tubular front axles and hairpin radius rods.
Definitely can picture that, is there a setup out there I can use to make the "ball arrangement" work on this setup?
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Old 08-08-2018, 05:24 AM   #197
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Default Re: Flathead project

I used a large (1") chrome moly heim joint on a car I built years ago. The rear suspension worked very well.
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:32 AM   #198
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I used a large (1") chrome moly heim joint on a car I built years ago. The rear suspension worked very well.
Nice, would you happen to have any pictures of that?
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Old 08-09-2018, 01:57 PM   #199
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Default Re: Flathead project

There are a lot of different approaches, here are some I like.
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File Type: jpg Radius Rods 4.jpg (61.6 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg Radius Rods 5.jpg (54.5 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg Radius Rods 6.jpg (60.6 KB, 59 views)
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Old 08-10-2018, 10:47 AM   #200
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There are a lot of different approaches, here are some I like.
I like that ball setup. Is there any place you know of where I can purchase that type of set up? I imagine it will have to be a used item and modified to work in my frame.
Thanks
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:19 PM   #201
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Default Re: Flathead project

I'm going to my shop today and will try to get some pictures of the heim joint setup on a car I'm building. The nice thing about the heim joints is that you can get them in a lot of sizes and varieties. They have rebuildable joints, joints with grease zerks, teflon joints, etc. The one I'm using is rated at 80,000 lbs. It's set up in just about the same way as the ball setup in "JSeery" 's examples, except that I have the heim directly below the pivoting cross piece in the U-joint.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:51 PM   #202
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Thanks tubman .
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:45 PM   #203
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OK. Here are my pictures. You will have to realize that this is a stalled-out project because of some other stuff that came up. The frame is sitting vertically to save space. The rear end assembly is upside down in relation to the frame. The thing to look at is the bracket on the cross-member that accepts the heim. I put the preliminary rod into the bracket so you can see how it works. This setup uses a 3/4" chrome-moly heim. My previous build use a 1" regular heim, but a 3/4 chrome-moly unit is stronger than a regular 1" heim. (I couldn't find the proper 3/4" bolt to put in the bracket, so I used a 5/8" that was close at hand). I have a lot more work to do on this one, but it worked great on my old "T" bucket. The transmission mount is for a early fifties Ford OD transmission and, as I said, positions the pivot point on the U-joint about 3 " above the heim.
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File Type: jpg IMG_1398.jpg (60.1 KB, 94 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1399.jpg (63.0 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1400.jpg (47.5 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1401.jpg (54.7 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1402.jpg (55.9 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1403.jpg (58.7 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1405.jpg (81.6 KB, 97 views)
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:19 AM   #204
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Tubman thanks for the pics. Now I can go forward with my project. Thanks again.
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:04 AM   #205
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Default Re: Flathead project

4WD vendors are are good source for these. I found this place that looks like it has a large assortment : https://www.barnes4wd.com/Barnes-4WD...ints_c_21.html.
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:28 PM   #206
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https://www.mcmaster.com/#ball-joint-rod-ends/=1e4mtjo Been looking here too. Thanks for the link.
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:55 AM   #207
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Here's an update showing the heim joins in with the ladder bars. now I need to figure out where the shocks go, any ideas?
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File Type: jpg 1.jpg (53.2 KB, 105 views)
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Old 01-14-2019, 12:08 PM   #208
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A view from the rear would be very helpful.
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:03 PM   #209
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Ok, here are the pics.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:59 PM   #210
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Default Re: Flathead project

Just curious as to why you stayed with the banjo rear end, every thing looks great. And well done. Al
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:04 PM   #211
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Most often done for the "look".
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:08 PM   #212
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Yes, I like the look. I did send it to Hot Rod Works to have them do the axle conversion. Old look on the outside, modern on the inside.
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:24 AM   #213
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Default Re: Flathead project

I'm a fan of the 9in conversions. I have one with a quick change center section I built up, really like the look.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:40 AM   #214
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I'm a fan of the 9in conversions. I have one with a quick change center section I built up, really like the look.
I like the look of the quick change axles too.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:32 PM   #215
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Looks like you have the bases covered. Al
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Old 01-18-2019, 05:42 AM   #216
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I received this picture from the Boling Brothers showing how to set up the shocks on my set-up. Also they gave me a brief description on how to set the shock in place.
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Old 02-09-2019, 02:05 PM   #217
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Rear shocks are setup.
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Old 11-22-2019, 11:51 AM   #218
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Small update here. Test fitting the body onto the frame.
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Old 11-22-2019, 11:54 AM   #219
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Lookin' good!
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Old 11-22-2019, 01:49 PM   #220
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Nice.
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Old 11-22-2019, 02:00 PM   #221
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Looks Great
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Old 11-24-2019, 04:37 PM   #222
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Thank you.
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:03 PM   #223
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What’s not to like, or love?!?!
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:36 AM   #224
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Yup, THAT IS NICE !!!
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Old 11-25-2019, 04:47 PM   #225
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Default Re: Flathead project

Great looking rig! how much chop do you have in that? I was going to chop mine but never got around to it before I put it together. Now I’m kind of glad I didn’t as I am 6 foot and don’t have a lot of headroom in it.
If I did chop, it would not be more than an inch and a half to 2 inches.
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