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Old 11-15-2019, 03:41 PM   #1
reddog565
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Default y-block blow by..

hi guys! I need your thoughts? I have a 272 (1956).
that I rebuilt less than a year ago. I'm running "trips".
the problem I'm having is, I'm getting a lot of blow by
from the oil filler tube! I know the engine is mechanically
healthy, as I rebuilt it. I have a pcv installed in the top
of the block. (not the valley pan). the road draft tube
has been eliminated.(blocked off). I understand, the
oil filler tube also acts as a fresh air intake. but, something
I'm not doing right, because there is too much blow by
thru the filler tube, thus fumes are getting into car..
I know all you guys are extremely sharp! so, I'm sure
someone has a fix.
thanks!!
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Old 11-15-2019, 04:21 PM   #2
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post

hi guys! I need your thoughts? I have a 272 (1956).
that I rebuilt less than a year ago. I'm running "trips".
the problem I'm having is, I'm getting a lot of blow by
from the oil filler tube! I know the engine is mechanically
healthy, as I rebuilt it.

I have a pcv installed in the topof the block. (not the valley pan). the road draft tube has been eliminated.(blocked off). I understand, the

oil filler tube also acts as a fresh air intake. but, something I'm not doing right, because there is too much blow by thru the filler tube, thus fumes are getting into car..

I know all you guys are extremely sharp! so, I'm sure
someone has a fix.

thanks!!
Can you show a photo of the PCV SYSTEM install?

If she is pumping fumes out of the filler cap, it is either non-functional and/or has extreme blow-by.
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-15-2019, 04:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Sorry guys, having a difficult time uploading
A picture...
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Old 11-15-2019, 05:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Keep trying. If you need help, yell.
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-15-2019, 05:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

The pcv valve is next to distributer.
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Old 11-15-2019, 05:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Has the engine been having this issue ever since you installed the PCV system, or did it start later on it's own ? Even after a fresh rebuild things can happen to cause more blow by.


Sal
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Old 11-15-2019, 06:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

I can't tell where your hose is connecting to in the block from that picture. What you should be trying to do is to ventilate the crankshaft.
Best way is to have openings at opposite ends of each other in relation to crankshaft. The original ideas of having the oil filler cap with an integral filter and ventilation tube/screen cannister in the lower block is good and the other being at the back of valley pan instead of the tube is okay also.
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Old 11-15-2019, 06:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Sorry guys, couldn't get a better picture .as
I stated previously. The pcv valve is tapped
Into the block. It's vacuum is supplied from the
Port between ctr. And front carb. I'm wondering
If I should put the road draft tube back on it?
Such as Dave said about having ventilation
At opposite ends. Does anyone have a good
Canister and tube?
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Old 11-15-2019, 07:00 PM   #9
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Question Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post

The pcv valve is tapped Into the block. It's vacuum is supplied from the
Port between ctr. And front carb.
Do you mean the PCV install is as shown below?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PCV- Valve Relocation _3.jpg (17.4 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg PCV Vacuum Source- FYB EDEL 573.jpg (142.8 KB, 53 views)
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-15-2019, 07:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Yes kultulz. That's exactly what I have! I'm thinking the engine is not breathing properly so it's just blowing it back out of the oil filler tube?
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Old 11-15-2019, 07:21 PM   #11
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Exclamation Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post

Yes kultulz. That's exactly what I have! I'm thinking the engine is not breathing properly so it's just blowing it back out of the oil filler tube?
You do not have an effective system. The valve has no baffling and will ingest spray/vapors making the system ineffective.
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-15-2019, 07:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

I had a PCV valve in the valley pan without sufficient baffling. It pick up a lot of oil, which on my set up mainly ended up in # 7&8 cylinders. But that was into the rear carb fitting on a 4 barrel. A stuck PCV valve will also produce your symptoms, to the point of blowing out a valve cover gasket in extreme cases. (Ask how I know, and the mess of oil on the exhaust is almost as bad as the heart attack when all the smoke shows up).

What engine was that PCV designed for? Did it mount vertically in the OEM application?

How much oil is the engine using, and how many miles since the rebuild?
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Old 11-16-2019, 02:28 AM   #13
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

I believe the pcv valve was supposed to be
For a y block application.the engine doesn't
Use oil. There's probably a couple thousand
Miles on Rebuild.
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Old 11-16-2019, 02:55 AM   #14
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post


Yes kultulz. That's exactly what I have! I'm thinking the engine is not breathing properly so it's just blowing it back out of the oil filler tube?

Let me be more concise, the setup @ the carb is fine. It is the actual valve setup that is ineffective.
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-16-2019, 07:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

So, what needs to be done to
Fix this problem?
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Old 11-16-2019, 07:36 AM   #16
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

what kind of rings did you use.i had trouble with a set of moly rings.the first time i saw a pcv in that spot i wondered.the dist, spinning in the cam gear is going to throw a lot of oil around.most of the top end oil is running down there.
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Old 11-16-2019, 09:26 AM   #17
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Thumbs up Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrell View Post

...the first time i saw a pcv in that spot i wondered.the dist, spinning in the cam gear is going to throw a lot of oil around.most of the top end oil is running down there.
Exactly! Good point ...
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File Type: jpg Oiling System _4 - Dist Drive Lube.jpg (4.9 KB, 121 views)
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-16-2019, 09:57 AM   #18
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Thanks for hanging with me guys!
This is an issue that needs to be resolved,
I can't breathe those toxic fumes... Can't
remember what type of rings are used?
Pcv valve#255.
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Old 11-16-2019, 10:14 AM   #19
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Read this thread - https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...19#post1821719

Don't worry yourself as it can be solved. BTW- Where did you get the info to set up the valve location?
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-16-2019, 10:37 AM   #20
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

I acquired the motor that way...
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Old 11-16-2019, 12:32 PM   #21
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post

So, what needs to be done to Fix this problem?
You read the URL I showed describing the OEM SYSTEM?

Because of your intake type (plenum hanging over valley cover). there will have to be a few modifications. I am sure that what the original owner attempted.
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-16-2019, 01:01 PM   #22
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Yes sir I did! Very good info..
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Old 11-16-2019, 01:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

What do you guys think about adding the road
Draft tube, I have it blocked off..
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Old 11-16-2019, 01:42 PM   #24
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post
What do you guys think about adding the road
Draft tube, I have it blocked off..
That would be a step backward! Those road draft tubes only worked at highway speeds, and not too effectively then. Around town. speeds were too slow to generate any draft at the road tube. One reason why so many Y-blocks sludged up and starved the rocker arms.
Try this: With the engine idling, lay a piece of cellophane over the fill tube. There should be enough vacuum build up after a few seconds to pull the cellophane into the tube. If not, check the PCV valve for proper flow. Some valves threaded into the carb/intake, so the flow was from the barbed (or hose) end into the intake. Other similar looking PCV valves threaded into the block/valve cover so the flow was from the threaded end, out through the hose and on to the intake. The internal check valve will block flow if the PCV valve is backwards.
You could make/adapt an oil fill cap with a hose running to the air cleaner to reburn the blowby, like OEM PCV systems do.
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:40 PM   #25
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

the fumes shouldnt be that bad.what do you have for tail pipes.your not getting exhaust fumes by chance
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:29 PM   #26
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Simply put a VACUUM/FUEL PRESSURE gauge on the dipstick tube. That will tell you if there is a partial vacuum or a pressurized crankcase.

A PCV Valve is not a precise piece. The OEM was calibrated for a specific engine(s) and was calibrated to work with several. The fuel/IGN curves were modified to work with whatever valve. As the engine wore/lack of maintenance, the system failed. Modify manifold vacuum with a cam or never adjust the valves and it will throw off the OEM System. That and the early designs were not that concise.

There are also not as many valve applications as there once was. Many have been deleted and/or replaced (the one fits all and CHI-COM).
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-16-2019, 04:31 PM   #27
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post

What do you guys think about adding the road Draft tube, I have it blocked off..
In addition to or in lieu (Fr.) of the PCV?
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-16-2019, 04:38 PM   #28
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Read This - http://mewagner.com/?p=444
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-16-2019, 04:43 PM   #29
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

As usual guys, great answers! I think we're slowly making progress? I was leaning toward the road draft but thanks I'm not going to do that now. I tried the cellophane trek put it over the oil filler tube, it did not get sucked down in! What I did find was the breather cap was filled with oil! As far as the toxic fumes, it's just the blow by coming out of the engine. I have dual exhaust with the tail pipes coming out the back and I'm positive there is no leaks. So it's all getting down to I don't think my PCV valve is working properly? If it was when the engine was running it should have sucked that piece of cellophane down in the filler tube. But it didn't.so my question now is I have vacuum going to the PCV valve why is it not working?
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

IMG_20191116_162141580.jpg
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Old 11-16-2019, 05:09 PM   #31
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Exclamation Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
What I did find was the breather cap was filled with oil! As far as the toxic fumes, it's just the blow by coming out of the engine.

Bad sign. Now there are two styles of caps, one is OPEN, its having a filter element in it and CLOSED, the cap drawing fresh air through the air cleaner. What style do you have?

I hate to be disrespectful, but that PCV install is gnarly ...

Is the car a daily driver?
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-16-2019, 05:49 PM   #32
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

No disrespect at all! You are absolutely right it is gnarly and it needs to be remade! Yes I drive it daily when it's
Not too cold. No heater! Lol! the cap is a repo of an oem
It has a logo on it stating front. It has a foam filter in it.
there are no air cleaners on this car so there's no hose to run it back to.
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Old 11-16-2019, 05:57 PM   #33
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Why not hook up a hand-held vacuum pump (like the ones used for bleeding brakes) to the hose that is hooked to the carb port? Unhook the hose there and use the vacuum pump to suck air through as a simple test to make sure the PCV valve is oriented in the correct direction to flow air from the crankcase to the carb port.

If you have a set up like Kultulz showed in his post as a suggestion, I do not think that the threaded boss (I think originally meant for carburetor/accelerator bellcrank assemblies) goes through to the crankcase on every single block cast from the factory. As I recall, I have seen blocks that contained holes that that did not go completely through. You may just want to double check that the hole goes completely through in that location.
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:06 PM   #34
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Thanks for joining the conversation hot rod Reverand.
I'm sure between everyone I'll come up with a solution.
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:42 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
Simply put a VACUUM/FUEL PRESSURE gauge on the dipstick tube. That will tell you if there is a partial vacuum or a pressurized crankcase.

A PCV Valve is not a precise piece. The OEM was calibrated for a specific engine(s) and was calibrated to work with several. The fuel/IGN curves were modified to work with whatever valve. As the engine wore/lack of maintenance, the system failed. Modify manifold vacuum with a cam or never adjust the valves and it will throw off the OEM System. That and the early designs were not that concise.

There are also not as many valve applications as there once was. Many have been deleted and/or replaced (the one fits all and CHI-COM).
To add to this, some years back (late '80's-earluy '90's) some vehicles (I think Ford Ranger was one) specified that the PCV valve be changed to a different part# after break-in. That's how specific the calibration was.
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Old 11-16-2019, 07:05 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post
It might be worthwhile to copy most '70's or so Ford systems: That is, fresh air into the engine through one valve cover, then fumes out the other valve cover through the PCV valve into the intake manifold (the system on your car will leave stagnant fumes/condensation under your valve covers, allowing for possible sludge and rust). Do those nice valve covers have pads to drill holes to add rubber grommets for the PCV valve and fresh air inlet? Or hide them on the back sides? If you do this, you will need to block the oil fill tube with a solid cap so no air flows through. Also, OEM PCV hoses were larger than on your car for better flow.
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Old 11-16-2019, 11:16 PM   #37
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

I also have that same repro oil filler cap they sell for the '50's Y-blocks with the foam filter inside. I did NOT like that foam filter. When it came time to clean it, I submerged the whole cap in a coffee can full of gasoline. After a day or so, the gas melted the foam filter enough that I could pull it out thru the middle underneath.
Then I took a bat of household fiberglass insulation and cut enough off of it to stuff it down inside that cap. It turned out to be a pretty good filter.
The gas also dissolved the black paint, but no big deal, I just repainted it with some cheap Rust-O-Leum black paint, and voila, like new again. Still using that cap.
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Old 11-16-2019, 11:44 PM   #38
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

This is a little off the subject, but why are we seeing Connecticut and Pennsylvania residents now converting their Y-blocks to PCV ??? Are the northeastern States laws now demanding emission controls like calif ?
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:51 AM   #39
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Disconnect pcv and run engine and see if is puffing smome. If it is not you have poor pcv vaccum or crank case ventilation. If is puffing smoke a broke ring , not seated ring or intake gasket not seated properly sucking oil from under the intake.
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:49 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan View Post
This is a little off the subject, but why are we seeing Connecticut and Pennsylvania residents now converting their Y-blocks to PCV ??? Are the northeastern States laws now demanding emission controls like calif ?
Converting your engine to a good PCV system from a road draft tube is one of the best things you can do for it! Positive Crankcase Ventilation removes corrosive combustion blowby gases that would otherwise condense and form acid and sludge. No matter how good the rings are, every engine has some combustion gases getting past the rings. With a road draft tube, these gases went into the atmosphere to add to the smog problem or condensed into the oil. Sucking this stuff out of the crankcase and "recycling" it back through the intake was a major reduction in smog. It was about the first step in pollution control, and works wonders in keeping older engines clean. So it's a win-win!
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Old 11-17-2019, 04:06 AM   #41
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post

It might be worthwhile to copy most '70's or so Ford systems: That is, fresh air into the engine through one valve cover, then fumes out the other valve cover through the PCV valve into the intake manifold (the system on your car will leave stagnant fumes/condensation under your valve covers, allowing for possible sludge and rust).

Do those nice valve covers have pads to drill holes to add rubber grommets for the PCV valve and fresh air inlet? Or hide them on the back sides? If you do this, you will need to block the oil fill tube with a solid cap so no air flows through. Also, OEM PCV hoses were larger than on your car for better flow.
What you are saying is correct in regard to design (1965 up), but you will lose the original appearance of the OEM install.

The 1960 up FYB PCV design is adequate (IMO) for the engine. There is a baffle on the underneath of the valley pan to direct air flow to the cylinder heads. You would also have to fabricate baffles for the rocker covers with the later design.

If the late OEM System is installed correctly, evacuation should be more than adequate, again IMO.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Valley Pan- 64 2V LT 292 2V _4.jpg (103.0 KB, 13 views)
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UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-17-2019, 04:16 AM   #42
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post


So, what needs to be done to Fix this problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post


Because of your intake type (plenum hanging over valley cover). there will have to be a few modifications. I am sure that is what the original owner attempted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post

So, what needs to be done to Fix this problem?
Because of your intake type (plenum hanging over valley cover). there will have to be a few modifications.

Where the problem here is that the PASS CAR had the ROAD DRAFT SYSTEM mounted on the LF engine skirt (BIRD used road draft tube) and EDEL made no allowance for either a tube or PCV. The intake plenum overhangs at that spot.

To begin, using the OEM PCV design, you will have to find a later PV valley pan and offset the plumbing (elbow) from under the plenum to where you can fabricate correct plumbing.

IMO, the system needs to be hidden as much as possible for appearance.

Do you live in Pittsburgh or an outlying area?
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UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-17-2019, 04:37 AM   #43
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I live east of city, Monroeville...
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:40 AM   #44
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What you are saying is correct in regard to design (1965 up), but you will lose the original appearance of the OEM install.

The 1960 up FYB PCV design is adequate (IMO) for the engine. There is a baffle on the underneath of the valley pan to direct air flow to the cylinder heads. You would also have to fabricate baffles for the rocker covers with the later design.

If the late OEM System is installed correctly, evacuation should be more than adequate, again IMO.
I agree, the PCV style valley pan would be an easy install but just assumed it would be near impossible to find one.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:49 AM   #45
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So, what needs to be done to
Fix this problem?
Since you drive the car daily in good weather, the fix may be to modify a set of original valve covers for a PCV system. The covers are very easy to swap out so just put your fancy ones on for shows, and the OEM ones for driving. Glue the gaskets to the covers and put a little high temp grease on the head surface so the gaskets don't stick.
Then if someone wants a ride, they won't need a gas mask!
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:05 AM   #46
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Unhappy Re: y-block blow by..

OK ...

I readily admit that I am extremely CDO (correct alphabetical order of OCD).

What you are describing would blend perfectly with a external rocker arm lube kit. I see your point if it was a beater or truck application. I am sure the OP wants a clean driver without having to change rockers overs on a regular basis. But this engine has three deuces and is partially dressed.
Please don't hate me ...
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UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-17-2019, 11:11 AM   #47
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Thumbs up Re: y-block blow by..

Look what I found in an older post -





Y-Blockhead has a perfect install. I am not sure if the EDEL is a 553 or 573, but everything fits.
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File Type: jpg Y-Blockhead _2.jpg (43.8 KB, 81 views)
File Type: jpg Y-Blockhead _1.jpg (76.0 KB, 74 views)
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As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...


Last edited by KULTULZ; 11-17-2019 at 06:32 PM. Reason: RE-CAPTURE PHOTO
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:48 AM   #48
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I agree, the PCV style valley pan would be an easy install but just assumed it would be near impossible to find one.
They seem readily available on evil-Bay and other sources.
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UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-17-2019, 11:55 AM   #49
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The 1960 up FYB PCV design is adequate (IMO) for the engine. There is a baffle on the underneath of the valley pan to direct air flow to the cylinder heads. You would also have to fabricate baffles for the rocker covers with the later design.
Kultulz, what pictures or other information do you have on the 1960 and up design? Ford made only three valley pans that I am aware of... the early (1954) valley pan that only had the long tube for oil fill/breather at the front, the pan that came out in 1955 with the ECJ Y block that introduced a downdraft tube that exited at the bell housing (this is the same pan with the rear baffle that many convert to use with PCV in one form or another), and the E code pan that had both a dish for the dual four intake AND a provision for the same downdraft tube at the bell housing. I have disassembled quite a few Y blocks and ran several over the years but have never seen the fourth that you are describing. Did it have a provision for a PCV or some other equipment at the rear of the pan?

EDIT: I have seen the style that included a curved/bent oil fill tube to make room for a radiator overflow tank - these all had the oil baffle in the rear as well like the 55 ECJ version...
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:41 PM   #50
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

A lot of good input guys! As I recall my valley pan only had the front baffle in it. I remember that cuz I had a difficult time getting it into the block.I don't recall there being any type of baffle on the rear of it. Could this be causing an issue? Also I forgot to mention I have about 18 to 20 lb of vacuum at idle. And the gauge is reading all the way up in the green zone meaning engine is good. So I'm quite sure it's getting enough vacuum..
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:28 PM   #51
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

I have had a lot of experience with the Ford Y-block's, have had one or more in my life since 1959, currently have three F100's, '59- 63.
Many years ago I found out that the pre '63 Y-blocks were very dirty engine because the engine had poor ventilation.
In most cases I harvested the PCV systems from a '63 or later F series truck, installing same on my 56-57 T-birds and 59 and later F series trucks. I have one '59 F100 4x that I used a variation of a GM PCV in the right side valve cover. Blocked off the road draft tube located on the lower left side of the block, used a vented/filtered cap on the oil fill tube and a GM PCV and grommet in the valve cover.
I located the PCV between two rocker arms and made a baffle for the bottom of the valve cover, at high RPM's there is a lot of oil flying around the rocker arm chamber.

In order for a PCV system to work it must be able to draw fresh air through the crankcase/valley, (filtered cap on fill pipe) then into the intake, via the PCV, where it is consumed via the intake/fuel process.
Most people want to over engineer the system..
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:26 PM   #52
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rod Reverend View Post

Kultulz
YO!

Quote:
... what pictures or other information do you have on the 1960 and up design? Ford made only three valley pans that I am aware of... the early (1954) valley pan that only had the long tube for oil fill/breather at the front, the pan that came out in 1955 with the ECJ Y block that introduced a downdraft tube that exited at the bell housing (this is the same pan with the rear baffle that many convert to use with PCV in one form or another), and the E code pan that had both a dish for the dual four intake AND a provision for the same downdraft tube at the bell housing. I have disassembled quite a few Y blocks and ran several over the years but have never seen the fourth that you are describing. Did it have a provision for a PCV or some other equipment at the rear of the pan?

EDIT: I have seen the style that included a curved/bent oil fill tube to make room for a radiator overflow tank - these all had the oil baffle in the rear as well like the 55 ECJ version...
Like you said, the 54 design which was replaced by the 55/56 design. No breather provisions. The 55/57 BIRD had its own as they used a road draft tube. The 57/ FORD had a road raft tube (57 8V and SC only). And the PCV pan was introduced in 1960 on the PASS CAR. Not all cars received PCV and most were road draft. And the LT began in 1963 I believe. I got rid of most of my cataloging some years ago.

Does that explain it adequately and what pictures would you like to see (if I have them)?
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-18-2019, 09:04 AM   #53
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YO!


And the PCV pan was introduced in 1960 on the PASS CAR. Not all cars received PCV and most were road draft.

Does that explain it adequately and what pictures would you like to see (if I have them)?
The PCV pan is the one I would like to see photos of... I don't think I have ever laid eyes on one. I guess I always assumed that Ford used the 55 Tbird/ECJ version and adapted a PCV fitting to an existing design. Go figure.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:14 PM   #54
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The PCV pan is the one I would like to see photos of... I don't think I have ever laid eyes on one. I guess I always assumed that Ford used the 55 Tbird/ECJ version and adapted a PCV fitting to an existing design. Go figure.
The first photos will be the PASS CAR (60/62) pan with the modified oil fill tube (to allow for the cooing system surge tank).

The second the 63/64 292 LT pan.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Valley Pan - C0AE 6519-A - Filler Tube Modified.jpg (18.0 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg Valley Pan- 64 2V LT 292 2V _1.jpg (75.8 KB, 21 views)
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-18-2019, 03:12 PM   #55
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

these pans are all the same except for filler spout including the 55 tbird.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:48 PM   #56
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Another difference in Y-block valley pans with a road draft fitting at the back...

There are different outside lengths of the straight oil filler tubes. Most T-Bird valley pan tubes are approx 6 to 6.5 inches long from the top surface of the valley cover, on other vehicles they are approx 8 inches long.
Presumably because there's more room under the hood.
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg valley pan, bottom.jpg (66.3 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg valley pan, road draft tube hole.jpg (46.5 KB, 6 views)

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Old 11-18-2019, 04:47 PM   #57
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Ok, so there is not a pan made from 1960 on that was specifically for PCV? lol now I am confused. I have the pan that dmsfrr shows (from a 1957 Ford) but I installed the PCV plumbing that Kultulz shows in both pictures above (albeit one has the crazy bend in the oil spout for a radiator overflow tank and the other one is straight). Is not the pan on the right in Kultulz's post the same pan as the one that dmsfrr pictures?

dmsfrr - did not know that the T bird pans had an oil spout 1/5" shorter, but it surely makes sense.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:21 PM   #58
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

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Ok, so there is not a pan made from 1960 on that was specifically for PCV? lol now I am confused. I have the pan that dmsfrr shows (from a 1957 Ford) but I installed the PCV plumbing that Kultulz shows in both pictures above (albeit one has the crazy bend in the oil spout for a radiator overflow tank and the other one is straight). Is not the pan on the right in Kultulz's post the same pan as the one that dmsfrr pictures?

dmsfrr - did not know that the T bird pans had an oil spout 1/5" shorter, but it surely makes sense.
The pan was the same for either road draft or PCV. Not all cars received PCV. It was limited to state emission laws, such as CA or NY for instance. The same pan(s) were used for either application.

The earlier pans that had the actual road draft tube at the rear of the pan can be used for a PCV conversion. Same basic design.

Does this help? I seem to not being able to describe correctly ...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PCV-CCV System _2 - 1961-62 Pass Car.jpg (73.8 KB, 11 views)
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-18-2019, 07:38 PM   #59
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Here is more info that you may find helpful -
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-19-2019, 04:29 AM   #60
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Question Re: y-block blow by..

Did I explain it to your satisfaction Rev? Haven't heard anything ...
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As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

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UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-19-2019, 04:40 AM   #61
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post

As I recall my valley pan only had the front baffle in it. I remember that cuz I had a difficult time getting it into the block.I don't recall there being any type of baffle on the rear of it. Could this be causing an issue?
The rear baffle was used on both versions. It is a splash shield. The adapter (6A665) is a vapor/fume separator.

This is especially important when using the MOROSO PCV valve grommet. Usually this baffle has to have the adapter retaining nut drilled out to allow the valve to fully seat. This exposes the valve to splash.
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As we got into bed, I asked the wife if there was a chance of having sex tonight ...

As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

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UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-19-2019, 08:40 AM   #62
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Quote:
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The pan was the same for either road draft or PCV.
This should do it... thank you

what threw me was an earlier post you had that mentioned a "PCV pan" that Ford came out with in 1960.

Clear as mud
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:57 AM   #63
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Quote:
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This should do it... thank you

what threw me was an earlier post you had that mentioned a "PCV pan" that Ford came out with in 1960.

Clear as mud
What I should have said is that FORD (along with others) introduced PCV in 1960 due to emission regulations.The C0AE pan was introduced for the 1960/ FORD PASS CAR with the modified filler tube for both road draft and PCV usage.

Limited education here -
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As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

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UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-19-2019, 12:25 PM   #64
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
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these pans are all the same except for filler spout including the 55tbird
While basically all are somewhat similar, there are differences needed for certain applications -

-1954/1957 Style w Block Side Draft-

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File Type: jpg Valley Pan - Closed _1.jpg (32.4 KB, 110 views)
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As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

And that's when the fight started ...

UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-19-2019, 12:44 PM   #65
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post

Another difference in Y-block valley pans with a road draft fitting at the back...

There are different outside lengths of the straight oil filler tubes. Most T-Bird valley pan tubes are approx 6 to 6.5 inches long from the top surface of the valley cover, on other vehicles they are approx 8 inches long.

Presumably because there's more room under the hood.
Below is a filler tube height chart for the pre-1960 design(s).

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As usual, the reply was, "Not likely".

"Well then, can I call a friend"?

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UPDATE - The doctor said I will walk again but most likely with a limp ...

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Old 11-20-2019, 12:31 PM   #66
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Hey guys the final verdict is in on the blow by! Turns out I had a bad PCV valve! I installed a #2260 (very rare from early Corvettes).no more blowing smoke and it has good suction in the oil filler tube now! And I rerouted my vacuum lines. There's now a separate line for each use. I ended up making a 4-port vacuum valve. Simply made it out of copper. Very easy to solder! Now for one more issue? This is been doing this ever since I got the car it blows water out of the dual exhaust pipes. Upon startup. So what's the thoughts on this issue?
Thanks to all who participated!!
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:07 PM   #67
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Water (condensation) out the exhaust is common on cars used for short trips. Water is a byproduct of combustion. Gasoline is a hydrocarbon, the 'hydro' being hydrogen. Anyway, the water vapor in the exhaust gases condenses to liquid when it reaches the cold pipes and muffler. Idling and putt-putting around town never lets the exhaust system get warm enough to evaporate out this water so it dribbles out the tailpipes. Exhaust gases are corrosive so when mixed with water can rust out pipes and mufflers in a hurry! That's why the old-time corner gas stations all had racks and racks of tailpipes and stacks of mufflers.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:21 PM   #68
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Great answer! Any solutions for this issue?
the way I see it all that water laying in the exhaust is definitely going to eat away mufflers and tailpipes for sure...
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:00 PM   #69
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Great answer! Any solutions for this issue?
the way I see it all that water laying in the exhaust is definitely going to eat away mufflers and tailpipes for sure...
Check for drain holes in the muffler end caps. Some have them, some don't. I'm thinking here of the oval OEM style with crimped seams. You can drill a drain hole if needed; about 1/8" or so. Or, if you need an excuse for a run down the Interstate, say you have to go dry out the mufflers! I imagine putting heat lamps under the mufflers and any low points in the pipes for a few days would dry them out, but I've never tried this.
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:56 PM   #70
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

I’m glad the problem is solved. If you’ve got any miles to speak of on the motor, I’d either make a long run or change the oil. If it looks good on the dipstick a good run is probably enough. If it looks other than new I’d run it to warm it up and change it and the filter. No sense circulating contaminated oil.

I’ve drilled holes in the bottom back of mufflers, mainly after blowing a head gasket and filling them with water (that’s a change the oil right now and prime, bearing materials don’t like anti freeze).

The long term solution is stainless steel mufflers and pipes behind them. Not polished street rod stuff, most products are available in utility grade stainless alloys.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:27 PM   #71
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Thanks everyone!
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Old 11-23-2019, 10:08 AM   #72
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

A quick check to make is to remove the breather cap and rig a vacuum gauge in the opening. Should be some vacuum there. Do not remember how much but some. Used to be a small plastic gauge in the old days you held over the pipe and it registered a vacuum or pressure. System works by drawing in clean air through the breather, circulating it around the engine and out the PCV valve which meters the flow. Sounds like it is blocked somewhere. Y-blocks had two styles of road draft tubes. One on the front left of the block with a filter/oil separator, the other at the back of the valley pan. Both were baffled to prevent oil from being sucked out. Which style was yours originally? I don't like the location your valve is installed in. Hard to tell what the tapped hole was originally used for. But I see another picture showing it in the valley pan. Which is correct now? Rather see it in the valley pan, but has to be baffled.
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:28 PM   #73
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

Another great reply! My draft tube is
Located front side. ( Blocked off) .
The pcv is located in the block.
I put a 4" pipe to raise it up, so it
Doesn't get oil contamination.
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:38 PM   #74
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

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Originally Posted by reddog565 View Post

Another great reply! My draft tube is
Located front side. ( Blocked off) .
The pcv is located in the block.
I put a 4" pipe to raise it up, so it
Doesn't get oil contamination.
Just keep an eye on it. Where and how the valve is situated can only lead to vapor ingestion.

OEM used both a splash shield and separator.
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Old 11-23-2019, 04:01 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flatheadron View Post

A quick check to make is to remove the breather cap and rig a vacuum gauge in the opening. Should be some vacuum there. Do not remember how much but some. Used to be a small plastic gauge in the old days you held over the pipe and it registered a vacuum or pressure.
I still have mine ...



Autolite ... But it won't ...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PCV System Tester - Autolite.jpg (21.3 KB, 64 views)
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Old 11-29-2019, 09:46 AM   #76
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

I still do not understand what the PCV valve is screwed into. I know it's a threaded hole in the block but is that hole open to the valley area or an oil galley? Was there vacuum or pressure at the breather cap pipe?
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Old 11-29-2019, 09:59 AM   #77
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Post Re: y-block blow by..

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatheadron View Post

I still do not understand what the PCV valve is screwed into. I know it's a threaded hole in the block but is that hole open to the valley area or an oil galley? Was there vacuum or pressure at the breather cap pipe?
Where the OP has the valve installed (on the block directly behind the valley pan opening) is incorrect. There is neither a splash shield under the valve or any type of separator above the valve. The valve install will continue to draw excessive fumes/vapors into the intake tract and foul earlier than preventative maintenance will catch.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg C1AE 6A665-G- Modified _5 - EDB Block - Crop.jpg (23.9 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg PCV- Valve Relocation _3.jpg (17.4 KB, 9 views)
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"Well then, can I call a friend"?

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Old 11-30-2019, 10:31 AM   #78
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

I could be wrong but from what I know it looks like the valves in these pictures are installed wrong. Normally, with these screw in valves, the threaded end screws into the intake or carb base with the threads at the vacuum source and the hose running to the valley pan, valve cover, or area where the older road draft tube went. Try reversing the valve and see what that does.
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Old 11-30-2019, 05:58 PM   #79
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Default Re: y-block blow by..

From my experience, the hose with vacuum from the carb base or intake manifold goes to the nipple end of the PCV valve. The other end goes to the crankcase/lifter valley. Looks installed correctly to me.


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