Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-03-2014, 01:29 PM   #101
jim galli
Senior Member
 
jim galli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Tonopah, NV.
Posts: 283
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Post 100. When I originally read your first post 3 weeks ago, I thought to myself, oh, sheared the teeth off the timing gear. Didn't say anything because I figured that would be obvious to the folks here. Don't get discouraged. If 100,000 farmers and ranchers could take it apart and put a new gear on, you probably can too. But we still don't know if that's what happened.
__________________
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose... Jim Elliott, 1949

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com
jim galli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 03:12 PM   #102
George/Maine
Senior Member
 
George/Maine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mid coast Maine
Posts: 1,878
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Post 97
that's the wrong end the female end is in dist.
I don't know or ever heard of a dist puller.
If you are in a warm area like ca or fl you could use a pipe wrench to twist the dist out by now. Only you know what you have and ford made thing easy to fix not like today mass air senses were a bug would stop the car cold.
The dist can only go in one way so don,t take the joke to heart.
George/Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 12-03-2014, 03:30 PM   #103
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,718
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat/Ohio View Post
Frank,

Look at the picture that DavidG posted above, now read his post. He has clearly pointed out what you should do next. Remove the timing gear inspection cover (2 bolts shown in the picture and one under the cover that goes through the oil pan). After removing the 3 bolts and timing gear inspections cover, you can now crank the engine over a few spins and check the teeth on the timing gear. Very straight-forward procedure. Good luck!
will do!
sounds like the best plan.
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 04:35 PM   #104
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,718
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
I don't think anyone said that the timing gear was made of fabric or cardboard. It was made of a fiberous plastic called Celeron and it was likely more expensive at the time than anything made of metal.

With all due respect to the suggestion that you could inspect the timing gear by removing the timing pin on the front timing gear cover, all you would ascertain is the highly remote possibility that the nut retaining the timing gear cover on the end of the camshaft was loose. A far more likely cause is sheared teeth and that can only be checked by removing the two bolts holding the side cover of the timing gear and one beneath it through the oil pan flange (see photo below - the timing gear side cover is forward of the fuel pump and shaped something like a quarter moon) and then hand cranking the engine through several revolutions of the crankshaft.
where are these 3 screws? I have a model B I see this side piece with 2 screws and cannot see a screw below
Attached Images
File Type: jpg new photo group 142.jpg (65.4 KB, 33 views)
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 05:02 PM   #105
DavidG
Senior Member
 
DavidG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,275
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Frank,

The quickest way to teach yourself the basics of a Ford Model B engine is to pull up a chair and start to think thorough the function of each part aided by a re-print copy of the illustration from the period chassis parts catalogue shown below.

For example, you asked if you have to drain the oil to check the condition of the timing gear, but that suggests that you haven't looked at your engine, identified the timing gear cover in question, and then considered its position relative to the oil pan (where the oil is).

99% of automotive technology circa 1933 is common sense based. Nearly all the hobbyists that frequent this site acquired their knowledge before the internet existed and I'll bet that in nearly every case they did so with a direct, take-it-apart and put-it-back-together approach like the proverbial kid and his watch.

As the illustration is a composite of the Ford four-cylinder engine used between 1928 and 1934, you'll note some components that aren't on your engine or differ from what is on your engine. Once you've identified those by process of elimination or substitution, you're on your way. There is a separate illustration in the cited catalogue for each of the add-on parts to the engine such as the distributor, carburetor, generator, etc., etc.

At this stage of your education regarding your '33 four, you need pictures far more than words.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg B engine exploded view.jpg (99.9 KB, 39 views)
DavidG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 05:14 PM   #106
DavidG
Senior Member
 
DavidG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,275
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Please re-read the fifth line of the second paragraph beginning "bolts holding the side cover ......" Unless you're using a mirror or looking from beneath the car, you cannot see the 3rd bolt referred to from the top, but you can feel it by sticking your hand beneath the cover and feeling along on the flange of the oil pan. If the bolt is missing you will still feel the hole in the flange of the oil pan.
DavidG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 05:21 PM   #107
Charlie Stephens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,225
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Frank,

As a side note, save all of the bolts and reuse them. I know this would be a sin on a satellite. The bolts that hold the cover on (I assume they are the same as a '32) have a rounded head and are not available from the local hardware store with the correct head. This is typical of many things on the car.

Charlie Stephens
Charlie Stephens is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 05:35 PM   #108
DavidG
Senior Member
 
DavidG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,275
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Charlie,

With respect, I'm sure that you meant to limit that comment to the two bolts on the side of the cover and not to the hex bolt on the underside, otherwise Frank may think that the bolt underneath should have a rounded head. He should save that bolt too because it hopefully is the original with a thick flat head unlike the bolts available today at hardware stores which have noticeably thinner heads. (Except for the flywheel housing, front timing gear cover, water pump, water inlet casting and pipe, and front motor mount bracket, a '33 four is identical to a late '32 four in all respects.
DavidG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 06:16 PM   #109
midgetracer
Senior Member
 
midgetracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bismarck ND
Posts: 903
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Frank,
Do as David G says, but you have to also remove three bolts on the front of the timing cover to get the small side cover off. I am quite sure that you will find the timing gear has teeth sheared off. It is very common on an old engine. A good 4 cylinder mechanic can get the old one off and a new one on in a few hours, but it is a big job if you have never done it, but certainly not impossible for someone of your skills.
midgetracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 06:33 PM   #110
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,718
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart View Post
So what you're saying, Frank, it IS rocket science!

Mart.
a real skilled and experience mechanic is like an artist!
Someone who develops a feel for the machine, no just replaces parts.
Truly skilled people in any field are rare.
We seem to have more parts replaces today than truly skilled technicians.

I am new to the field and only entered it because I fell in love with these wonderful old cars from an exciting time the 1920's to early 1930's.
I really hate new plastic cars and have little interest in them.
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 06:35 PM   #111
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,718
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by midgetracer View Post
Frank,
Do as David G says, but you have to also remove three bolts on the front of the timing cover to get the small side cover off. I am quite sure that you will find the timing gear has teeth sheared off. It is very common on an old engine. A good 4 cylinder mechanic can get the old one off and a new one on in a few hours, but it is a big job if you have never done it, but certainly not impossible for someone of your skills.
This is a silly question, do I have to drain the engine oil first.
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 06:39 PM   #112
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,718
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens View Post
Frank,

As a side note, save all of the bolts and reuse them. I know this would be a sin on a satellite. The bolts that hold the cover on (I assume they are the same as a '32) have a rounded head and are not available from the local hardware store with the correct head. This is typical of many things on the car.

Charlie Stephens
I always resuse the original bolts.

By the way, spacecraft are usually glued together...stronger than bolts and much lighter.
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 07:36 PM   #113
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,496
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankWest View Post
This is a silly question, do I have to drain the engine oil first.
No, BUT if the gear is stripped I would drop the pan to clean
the pieces out.

Bob
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 07:45 PM   #114
DavidG
Senior Member
 
DavidG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,275
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

My bad; midgetracer is correct. There are six bolts in total.
DavidG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 08:08 PM   #115
Mike B
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oakdale,Ca
Posts: 1,323
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Well, someone has to say this, so may as well be me...

Frank, as I mentioned before, I admire your tenacity to solve this on yur ow,

That said, I see in this thread, and your earlier ones, you haven't answered specific questions that could help you out, or give others offering advice, and better direction to lead you to a solution.

I really think you need to have a gear head come over and take a look at it, just to confirm what the probable cause and issues are.

You seem to be reluctant to tell anyone where you are located, and I'm not sure why...heck, you could have DavidG 2 miles away from you and in 10 minutes, eliminate 5 days of asking questions.

It is always satisfying to "fix it yourself", but sometimes a keener more experienced eye is needed.

Good luck!
Mike B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 09:52 PM   #116
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,718
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim galli View Post
Post 100. When I originally read your first post 3 weeks ago, I thought to myself, oh, sheared the teeth off the timing gear. Didn't say anything because I figured that would be obvious to the folks here. Don't get discouraged. If 100,000 farmers and ranchers could take it apart and put a new gear on, you probably can too. But we still don't know if that's what happened.
Thanks for your encouraging comments.
I am stumbling along but enjoy the fact that I am learning and feel like I am part of the 1930's.
I almost bought an already restored car but I am happy with this 95% original 1933 ford because now I am learning about the car. My plans are to keep this car and use and repair it myself for the rest of my life. Tomorrow morning I will take off the timing gear side port to see the condition of the gear.
Strange, but I have many repair books and service bullitons but no show how to replace the timing gear/gears? Well I will see tomor/row.
Thanks again....
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 10:05 PM   #117
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,496
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Frank, You might want to get the "Model A Mechanics Handbook--Vol 1".
There are a lot of things that are similar, like changing the timing gear,
between the Model A and your 1933.
Here's a link http://www.brattons.com/product.asp?...=any&PT_ID=all

Bob
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 10:19 PM   #118
George/Maine
Senior Member
 
George/Maine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mid coast Maine
Posts: 1,878
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Do you have a spark plug wrench or a adjustable wrench.
A big step for tomorrow remove the spark plugs.
Now if the can turn engine over look and see if the VALVESS are moving.

Last edited by George/Maine; 12-04-2014 at 05:57 AM.
George/Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 10:23 PM   #119
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,496
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

I think somebody forgot to take their medication.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 11:22 PM   #120
dean333
Senior Member
 
dean333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Shorewood Illinois
Posts: 357
Send a message via Yahoo to dean333
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

George you need to keep it clean. A good idea is to take a remedial English class too. You try to give advice but nobody can understand what you're trying to say because of your poor sentence structure and lack of punctuation in the correct place.
__________________
Tim Carlig
dean333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:51 AM.