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Old 11-05-2019, 02:44 PM   #1
Rusty Sills
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Default Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

Mystery brake set up. It works well ... in my estimation. Just doing some maintenance.

A respected, knowledgeable brake guru has noted having seen it before, but could not identify it's origins.

First person to accurately ID this set-up wins a resounding, 'Thanks!" and will be held forever in my debt.

RS


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Old 11-05-2019, 03:07 PM   #2
Conaway2
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

I had that system on my Model A over 40 years ago (have changed back to stock now). It did work quite well. I believe either Warshawsky or Ricks sold it.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:32 PM   #3
Bob C
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

The bad thing about these is if the brakes are to far out of adjustment they
can go over center and lock up the brakes.


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Old 11-05-2019, 04:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

If I recall, they were originally sold as a "brake floater". Conway had it right, I know Rick's sold them as an aftermarket. My dad had them on his Roadster in the day, not sure it stopped any better, it was probably hiding about 10 other things that should have been done to the brakes. They have long been removed now.
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Old 11-05-2019, 05:56 PM   #5
Benson
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

Very dangerous if steel drums are over sized as mentioned above.



One or both wheels WILL lockup (and NOT release until taken apart) ... when "floater" goes over center.



I did not read this is in a book or on the internet ... it actually happened 55 Years AGO while I was driving.

Last edited by Benson; 11-05-2019 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 11-05-2019, 08:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

Wouldnt it be easy to install a stop or make the floater arms just a little longer?
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Old 11-05-2019, 09:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

I have heard stories that if you have drums turned way out and the shoes are worn thin it is possible for this type of brake floater to over-extend and lock up.

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Old 11-05-2019, 09:53 PM   #8
w.michael
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

These "brake floaters" were available from JC Whitney and Warshawsky in in 1960's. I installed a set on my grandfather's coupe (now my coupe.) They didn't help one bit with worn out brakes! Removed them after several years and went back to stock set up.

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Old 11-05-2019, 10:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

Not only lock up, but picture, if you will, the impossible situation of having to destroy the backing plate and presumably everything else on the wheel to get to a locked up brake.
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Old 11-05-2019, 10:34 PM   #10
marty in Ohio
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

They been on my car for the 26 years I've owned it and have no idea how long they were on the car before I bought it. The car was restored about 50 years ago. Whitney's or Warshawsky's sounds about right. Haven't had a problem yet!
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Old 11-05-2019, 11:56 PM   #11
Rusty Sills
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

Cool!! Thanks for the responses ... one and all.


I believe that Mr Conway stepped up and gets the first "Thanks!" ... and has accepted the burden of forever being in my "debt" ... (always read for hidden terms). But being as I am, I'll let him off the hook. chuckle


Seriously, thanks to all of you who offered your knowledge and insight. I happen to have a well used copy of Rick's book. But I'll have to dig around to find this Mr/Mrs/Ms/Mstr Warshawsky ... and find some eccentric hoarder who archives JC Whitney catalogs.


My oldest copies of JC's went to the outhouse at some time or other ... his cataloging was prolific ... and there was not enough light in there to read them. Oh! Wait!! You thought I meant ... !?


I'll have to investigate that over-center issue. Seems ... off hand ... that the lever arms should(?) be mechanically stopped from going over center when the lever arms contact ... in the horizontal state ... the bottom surface of the actuating block ... and that the downward force and travel exerted on the actuating pin would be mechanically stopped from ... hummm!? But, I'm just thinkin' out loud here.


But since I have no reason or basis to dispute the first hand experience with the over-center issue ... I'll have to give it serious consideration.



RedModelt gives me an idea on how to prevent that over-center issue ... welding a stop 'tab(?) to the fore and aft base of the actuating block. Something to stop the lever arms before they reach the horizontal position. Or, have a buddy (freebie!) mill out a couple of new blocks with added stop tabs. But I'm just thinkin' out loud here.


Since I have new cast iron drum/hubs, bearings, shoes, shoe springs, etc. ... I may just change everything out to OEM style components.


Hummm!? Shoe springs reminds me of "shoe strings" ... particularly, the potato type. I think I'll run out and get some of those ... come back ... sit down and noodle this ... noodle? ... out.



RS
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:39 AM   #12
Keith True
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

If the drums and shoes are in spec those things work great.I have had to pop a hole with a torch to reach in with a screwdriver and flip the link up.His drums were WAY out,shoes were WAY down,it was just asking for trouble.I had to do it at a stop sign here in town,the only reason I knew what to do was the guy I worked for knew the car,and told the owner it was going to happen someday.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:37 AM   #13
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

JC Whitney and Warshawsky shared the same building (and stock) on a corner in Chicago, who knows why. JCW used one street address; Ski, the other street. The warehouse is now located downriver outside of La Salle.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:05 PM   #14
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badpuppy View Post
JC Whitney and Warshawsky shared the same building (and stock) on a corner in Chicago, who knows why. JCW used one street address; Ski, the other street. The warehouse is now located downriver outside of La Salle.
I first saw JC Whitney and Warshawsky catalogs in the late '50's. Back then Warshawsky seemed to be the wholesale branch of JC Whitney. Their catalogs were identical but Warshawsky's prices were lower. Warshawsky didn't advertise, either. But if you could snag a catalog from a shop, you could order from them.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:18 AM   #15
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

My 1959 copy of JC Whitney & Co list the address as 1917-19 Archer Ave. Great place to look see what the cool guys were buying for their rides back in 59! Any Model A parts were spread out thru the catalog, the newer catalogs were in one place as I recall.
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:15 AM   #16
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

I remember my first purchase back in 66-67 when I started to restore my 1929 Standard Coupe...It was a Ring Gear and Pinion from J. C. W....still running strong (Knock on wood.)!

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Old 11-23-2019, 02:18 PM   #17
Rusty Sills
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

Business addresses on old catalogs ... ads in old car mags ... and Google Earth! Great stuff!

Thanks to all who followed on with comments about JCW, et al.

I enjoy finding these addresses and spotting them on GE. It's interesting to see what has happened at those original locations ... and even better when you find that the store front is still standing, little changed and still in use.


Will be looking up those addresses ... because ... well ... just because I'm the curious type ... and a history geek.

Interesting to look up the old Ford factory locations (Indianapolis, Toronto, Vancouver, LA, etc) on GE. Some are long time redeveloped ... but some are still readily identifiable.

RS
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Brakes quiz!! ID the mistery system.

JC Whitney was a retail seller and Warshawsky was ostensibly a wholesale seller. However it was easy to get a Warshawsky catalog as proof of being in business was easy to fabricate if necessary.
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