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Old 04-29-2016, 07:15 PM   #1
old28
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Default A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

Well I decided to start another thread on the running gear I will need for the
"TROG" race at Pismo Beach CA. Rules call for pre 1953 stuff only.

I have a 1939 top loader trans with a new gear set in it. I know it will cost me $500+ to hook it to a Model A block, but I would have the 2/3 synro for better shifting. Also have been thinking about putting the gears from the '39 in a model B trans. Some starting questions?

What is needed to hook a Model B trans case to a model A block?

Cost of parts (give or take) ?

Are the Model B cases & top forks had to get?

Does anyone make a synro gear set for a model A trans case?

I am looking at running a 1940 banjo 4:11 rear end.

Last edited by old28; 04-29-2016 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 04-29-2016, 07:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

Better to use the V8 case & Dennis clings adapter, A very good product ,
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Old 04-29-2016, 10:23 PM   #3
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

fourever4 --So I get the feeling that there is no real advantage in running a B trans case with 39 gears to replace a 39 trans with the Dennis Clings adapter. Peddles location is not an issue. The only issue is the $500 for the adapter.

Still like to know what it takes to adapt a B Trans to an A Block?
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Old 04-30-2016, 11:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

fourever4 --As this will be a Model A frame set up for racing with the "TROG" group at Pismo Beach, CA peddle location is not an issue, No Emergency brake.
Am I correct that a --- "B" trans will bolt up to an "A" clutch belhousing without any modifications. I understand the oil pan modifications.

Will the 39 gear set go into a "B" Trans Case with no modification?

Are any adapters needed in a setup with B trans case to a model A block.

I just like to see if I can put a nice unit togeather without forking out $500+ for an adapter unit.
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Old 05-01-2016, 07:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

This is a B transmission bolted to an A motor. You need a B upper flywheel housing and either a B rear oil pan extension or some sort of cover. I used a 32 rear mount and K member but you can use anything that you can make work.

My B trans has 40 gears and they do fit with no problems. The clutch brake setup is a 32 mount with 34 pedals but again use whatever is around.

You should really join the HAMB. There are a lot of people over there that are building TROG cars and the banger meets would really be a plus.
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

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62pan has it right. Use as many original Ford parts as you can. Isn't a modern adapter post '53? 32 K member is the way. Nothing wrong with the B case, I have '40 Zephyr gears in mine, along with the Lincoln Columbia with 4.44:1 gears....perfect for playing in the sand!
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

62pan --Thanks for the information and picture on the 32 trans to Model A block. I am a member on the HAMB, Same "old28" & have a build thread on my last 6 cylinder dragster on the site. As I am just getting started I have been happy with the Ford Barn site for the time being.

motordr -- Correct on the adapter, that is why I want to go with the B trans to an A block with pre '53 parts. Glad to hear that the gear set fits the case without any machine work. I will be running a 1940 Ford banjo rear with 4.11 gears.
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

Are the B trans cases and upper clutch/flywheel housing on the endangered list or are they still out there at Model A swap meets & for sale on the internet? I will try want ad on this site & HAMB.

Last edited by old28; 05-02-2016 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:39 AM   #9
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

Please be aware that a B flywheel housing does NOT have the same location for the starter as on an A flywheel housing. It is rotated up toward the engine. This prevents the starter pushrod from aligning with the switch. I did the later gears in a 32 case and used the B pan and B flywheel housing but never again. You need special motor mounts too. I recommend keeping the V8 gearcase and using the aluminum adaptor. Be also aware the aluminum adaptor sometimes interferes with the radius rod.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

Quote:
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Please be aware that a B flywheel housing does NOT have the same location for the starter as on an A flywheel housing. It is rotated up toward the engine. This prevents the starter pushrod from aligning with the switch. I did the later gears in a 32 case and used the B pan and B flywheel housing but never again. You need special motor mounts too. I recommend keeping the V8 gearcase and using the aluminum adaptor. Be also aware the aluminum adaptor sometimes interferes with the radius rod.
What problems did you have with the later gears in the B case and what problems did you have with the B flywheel housing and pan?

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Old 05-02-2016, 05:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

Bud --Thanks for the information on the trans/case/mounts/starter. As this will be a model A frame & engine race car for the beach race at Pismo Beach, CA I will be building and modifying lots of stuff from it's original locations to fit myself.

Charlie Stephens -- Thanks for the offer on the clutch housing. I am only in the planing stage so just building a file of what is out there.

I am currently having some medical issues and having daily radiation treatment. Have about two more weeks of treatment and then we will see if I can make this project happen. Until then I 'LL just keep asking questions and try to get as many views from as many people as I can.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

62pan and OTHERS --- I would like to make sure I have everything correct from the information & picture you sent. You said you used a 32 K member. Is the 34 Brake & clutch connected to the K Member or the trans? It looks like the K member. So far you and others have said that the 39 & 40 gears with syncro will go right into a B case without modifications. Will all41 -48 gears work also? Will side shift gear sets work with a 32 top load case?

Last edited by old28; 05-04-2016 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

Quote:
Originally Posted by old28 View Post
62pan and OTHERS --- I would like to make sure I have everything correct from the information & picture you sent. You said you used a 32 K member. Is the 34 Brake & clutch connected to the K Member or the trans? It looks like the K member. So far you and others have said that the 39 & 40 gears with syncro will go right into a B case without modifications. Will all41 -48 gears work also? Will side shift gear sets work with a 32 top load case?
The '32 and '34 brake and clutch assemblies both bolt to the chassis. In a '32 it is a K member and in a '34 it is an X member. The pedal assemblies are different and I don't know how much work it would be to interchange them. The '40 to '48 gears are the same as the '39 and they will go into the B case. Remember you need a '39 tower for the gears. The trucks were open drive and the cars were closed so there a few parts unique to each application. Don't worry about the flywheel housing I emailed you about, it will be around if you need it.

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Old 05-04-2016, 08:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

The K member I used is cut down to fit the A frame and so are the K member legs. I used a 32 brake mount and 34 pedals. Using the 34 pedals put them in the same location as the A pedals. There are other options. You could use a pickup F1 trans mount. They are alot cheaper than a 32 K member. Still in your time period. If you do a search on the Hamb I'm sure you will see what I am talking about. You can then make a wishbone and brake mounts designed for that.

What Charlie said about the gears is correct. The only issue is the order in which they are assembled. I would have to check Van Pelts book to see what I did.
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

62pan -- Thanks for the reply. As this is not a restoration I will just fab a tube unit for mounts and brackets. I have ordered Van Pelts book and catalog on the trans stuff. More good reading.

Not wanting to purchase right now but are the B trans cases hard to come by? I have a line on the B clutch/flywheel housing from a member here on this site.

Charlie Stephens -- Thanks for the additional information on the gears, peddle mounting and the housing.

Last edited by old28; 05-04-2016 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:45 AM   #16
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

They are around, not on everone's want list so you dont see them listed much. If one pops up don't hold back though. If I see any close to you I will let you know. Shipping cost now a days hurts alot of sales on those.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

I ordered Van Pelts trans book today along with their parts catalog. Should be some good reading and help in my B trans build.

Thanks to all for the information on the parts I need to mount the B Case to an A Block.
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Old 05-13-2016, 01:32 AM   #18
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

You need a B flywheel in a B transmission case. Bob
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Old 05-13-2016, 11:18 AM   #19
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

To answer the question about the 39 gears in the 32 case: yes it can be done but it took me a couple days to horse these gears into the case. Tight fit. I would recommend leaving the gears in the V8 case and just buying the different adaptor. These are a few of the things that don't get mentioned when others advocate these swaps.
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Old 05-13-2016, 02:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: A & B Running Gear For "TROG"

Bud, I did this swap and I was lucky to have Van Pelts book. For the 39 gears in a 32 case he detailed the how to part in the back of the book. Was easy knowing what to do and the correct order.
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