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Old 10-30-2018, 08:39 AM   #21
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

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Originally Posted by Bruce of MN View Post
I sure wish there was a firm consensus!

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251825
Exactly.But I just wonder what makes copper better? Because it was what was used originally although with asbestos in the middle? Or because it is a soft metal that holds up well or conforms better? Or is a modern material like Kevlar stronger but just never used by traditionalist? The gasket that is the one that I thought was bad is copper a Victor one but it could have been bad because of timing and overheat due to another issue. I know some say you can reuse copper but this one has not life in it after one cycle but that could be because of overtorquing from previous owner who"don't need no stinkin' torque wrench". Had a built in one on his arm supposedly.
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:16 AM   #22
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

This seems to be another topic similar to "what is the best oil". Lots of lively discussion where opinions vary.


Opinions vary due to personal preference based on each Barn member's experience's and understandings. If enough opinions are expressed you may see a trend. Another source of info may be to talk to reputable motor rebuilders or Model A restoration shops who have done a ton of them, ask what they use and why they use what they use.


Whatever you use, my recommendation is to use correct replacement method for the gasket. Prep the surfaces properly, use the correct sealer for the gasket if it is needed, make sure the head has been magnafluxed and checked/ground properly, check the block similarly. Once assembled re-torque the head multiple times as recommended, and in the proper sequence. Doing this should minimize encountering problems. Some recommend re-torqueing the head yearly. Even some of this info might create some discussion opinion.
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:44 AM   #23
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

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Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU View Post
This seems to be another topic similar to "what is the best oil". Lots of lively discussion where opinions vary.


Opinions vary due to personal preference based on each Barn member's experience's and understandings. If enough opinions are expressed you may see a trend. Another source of info may be to talk to reputable motor rebuilders or Model A restoration shops who have done a ton of them, ask what they use and why they use what they use.


Whatever you use, my recommendation is to use correct replacement method for the gasket. Prep the surfaces properly, use the correct sealer for the gasket if it is needed, make sure the head has been magnafluxed and checked/ground properly, check the block similarly. Once assembled re-torque the head multiple times as recommended, and in the proper sequence. Doing this should minimize encountering problems. Some recommend re-torqueing the head yearly. Even some of this info might create some discussion opinion.

Here is an example of a recommended gasket replacement procedure.


http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/brum...structions.htm
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:13 AM   #24
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

Step # 7 Do not use gasket on the water neck but smear red silicone? really why did I buy that gasket and I bought it in copper?
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Old 10-30-2018, 12:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

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Originally Posted by Bruce of MN View Post
I sure wish there was a firm consensus!

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251825
Tried the new ones and had three fail! Copper the only way to go!!! that's a firm consensus!! Torque by Brumfield specs you will have no problem,if head and block are flat and proper head studs.
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Old 10-30-2018, 12:52 PM   #26
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

Yeah he does not explain that. IMO he prefers that method so the neck studs can fully torqued as outlined (20- 40, 55 or 60). When using the copper gasket, when you torque the neck, the "ears" where the nuts seats can crack or break off.


IMO. Using the copper gasket is OK, but a more gradual torqueing side to side on these 2 studs/nuts is better, on those 2, 20-40-50-55 or 60 (depending on the head). I was just saying it was an example procedure, you can look at other procedures like in the Les Andrews book. I like this one because most reasons why are detailed, and works for that style head, written by the head manufacturer.


Others on the Barn have slightly different methods that have worked for them. Ex: instead of a single light coat of the copper spay, spray 2 or 3 coats.


Confusing yes, frequently when these alternate methods are suggested, the reason why is missing.
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Old 10-30-2018, 12:59 PM   #27
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

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Tried the new ones and had three fail! Copper the only way to go!!! that's a firm consensus!! Torque by Brumfield specs you will have no problem,if head and block are flat and proper head studs.
From what I have heard, read - IMO I agree, but am always open to being corrected if my understanding is not correct. Still think the copper neck gasket is ok if a gradual torqueing is performed on it. If my understanding is wrong, please give reasons, hate to give bad/marginal advice.
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Old 10-30-2018, 06:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

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Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU View Post
From what I have heard, read - IMO I agree, but am always open to being corrected if my understanding is not correct. Still think the copper neck gasket is ok if a gradual torqueing is performed on it. If my understanding is wrong, please give reasons, hate to give bad/marginal advice.
My limited experience with a goose neck gasket is it doesn’t torque the same as the rest. after the other 10 are holding torque, you still have to keep going on the goose neck. I like to file flat and use sealer.
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:35 AM   #29
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

Not using a gasket under the water neck and using silicone with no gasket it allows flat metal to metal contact which will stand the greatest torque with least risk of breaking neck in accordance with the greater torque amount advised for Brumfield Heads.
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:45 AM   #30
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

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Step # 7 Do not use gasket on the water neck but smear red silicone? really why did I buy that gasket and I bought it in copper?
I've used the copper gasket multiple times. Torqued to 65 lb-ft no problem (30-50-60-65). I have heard of others reporting problems with the paper gasket.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:12 AM   #31
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

I don't know about you but any time i fit a water outlet without a gasket no matter how flat it is, it'll crack.
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:00 AM   #32
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

Never had a leak or cracked neck from using sealant instead of gasket. The Best brand head gasket referred to is called GraphTite. Is has Kevlar layer in it also. I have never seen a GraphTite failure. I have seen a copper gasket failure recently. Any gasket will fail if your block and or head is not flat. Speaking of reference to information in Les Andrews book, ask Les what he recommends using now. I met Les and talked with him in length at the MAFCA national convention this year in Sparks, NV. We talked about head gaskets and he advises to use the GraphTite gasket.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:08 AM   #33
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Default Re: Copper head gasket or best Kevlar?

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Originally Posted by denniskliesen View Post
Never had a leak or cracked neck from using sealant instead of gasket. The Best brand head gasket referred to is called GraphTite. Is has Kevlar layer in it also. I have never seen a GraphTite failure. I have seen a copper gasket failure recently. Any gasket will fail if your block and or head is not flat. Speaking of reference to information in Les Andrews book, ask Les what he recommends using now. I met Les and talked with him in length at the MAFCA national convention this year in Sparks, NV. We talked about head gaskets and he advises to use the GraphTite gasket.
I think this response is very interesting that Les Andrews has endorsed the graphtite head gasket. I used similar composite gaskets on a 59AB engine 12 years ago and they are still good after a copper failure. I did install the graphtite on the Model A engine yesterday so I guess I will see.
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