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Old 08-24-2010, 04:18 PM   #41
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

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^amen
I'll second that AMEN
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:51 PM   #42
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

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i'll second that amen
hallelujah
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:28 PM   #43
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

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The problem is that people like Logan don't really have a home on the HAMB either, since pinto engines and weber carbs are totally unwelcome there also.

I think Logan should just use the DMAFC site to host his pinto discussions and keep it off Fordbarn.

amen
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:44 PM   #44
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

And don't forget to take the seat belts and safety glass out too! And I guess the guy making the new model A motor should be shot.
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:59 PM   #45
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

I would really like to see this thread get back to the original purpose and questions that were asked. Instead of playing the "original" "not original" game. The question was not asked why shouldn't i do it, it was how do i do it.
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Old 08-24-2010, 10:36 PM   #46
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

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The problem is that people like Logan don't really have a home on the HAMB either, since pinto engines and weber carbs are totally unwelcome there also.

I think Logan should just use the DMAFC site to host his pinto discussions and keep it off Fordbarn.
Dont you run electronic ignition, high comp head, generator regulator??? Did not know electronic ignition, snyders head, and regulators were era accesory. Pot calling kettle black if you ask me. Incase you hadnt noticed this is not my thread. I was awnsering what was posted. And who are you to decide where my home is at??? I fall into the Modifed A class, not street rod, you should atleast know they even have a judging class for cars like mine. The type of cars people can get in and they are set up to drive cross country, with a reliable car. Yes stock cars can do it, but I like having reliability. Ive driven 9,000 miles in two years. Thats not a lot to some, but to others its more than what theyve driven in 20 years. Ive been to 20+ meets all around texas and the country. So sorry if i dont drive a bone stock model a, but atleast i drive it . We've been through this before, and i asked you never to talk to me or about me again. I thought we had understood that. Give me a break dude im only 17 geez. But your starting it again....
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:12 AM   #47
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

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The problem is that people like Logan don't really have a home on the HAMB either, since pinto engines and weber carbs are totally unwelcome there also.

I think Logan should just use the DMAFC site to host his pinto discussions and keep it off Fordbarn.
Have you ever been on the HAMB? There are plenty of late-model four discussions. The Iron Duke, Mercruiser/Chevy II, and Quad 4 engines seem to have an edge over the Pinto, yes, but the Ford engines get some play for sure. And I've never seen a Weber shunned either.

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Old 08-25-2010, 07:18 AM   #48
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

OK, thanks for the oppertunity to jump in. I try to be a pureist for the sake of the Model A --"do no harm to original parts". but I have a B/F head (hilly country) electronic ignition, and an alternator. I want to use a generator but I keep needing to go back to the alternator when the gen. stops. I have a few questions that I didn't want to ask like; I haven't found a reasonable 31 rad. shell for my roadster project but, I have a perfect 31 commercial shell -- what would that look like painted body color until I can find a really good one that I can aford? A friend has a "B" engine for sale what is a reasonable offer for an engine that hasn't been opened for inspection? and, do they lend themselves to easily inserted mains -- I can babbitt Model A's but I don't have B stuff. Regards, E LaBrash
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:53 AM   #49
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

Maybe it IS good to get all of this controversy out in the open. Although we know that Ryan's intent for this forum is to be devoted to restoring Model A's, what exactly constitutes "too far" or "not original"? Since Logan brought up the subject about "Modified Class", --and since most of us recognize the two national clubs (MARC/MAFCA) as the organizations we belong to and use their "standards" as what we discuss here, ...then what does MARC/MAFCA say about this?

If you read the judging criteria for Touring Class (or Modified) is clearly defines what is acceptable:
ENTRY CRITERIA

Model A type four cylinder engine
Model A front axle and suspension
Model A rear axle and suspension
Model A frame
Model A production type body and custom commercial bodies using Model A hood, cowl, andfenders
Model A production type fenders without alterations
No modifications such as chopped top or other body alterations
Must complete the mandatory tour
Must complete an equipment functional check
Owners are required to assist in judging activities (unless judging in Fine Point Judging going on at the same time)
Vehicle must not be entered in Fine Point Judging during the same meet
.


You will notice it specifically states a Model A type engine. Now 'one might argue a Pinto engine looks very similar to an A/B engine and can be installed without modifications. This question was posed to the club and here is there response. ..

Criterion 1 states, "Model "A" Type Four Cylinder engine". What is meant by the word "type"? With regard to the word "type" as it specifically applies to Entry Criterion #1. Criterion #1 is intended to exclude Pinto, V8, 6, and 4 cylinder engines not of the Model A "type". Model A "type" was intended to include Model "B" engines, since from a visual aspect there is very little difference between the Model A and Model B engine. Model B engines are installed in some long distance drivers. Area 2 of the TC score sheets checks for the engine number. The use of a Model B engine would result in the lost of 5 points for the engine number but would not disqualify the vehicle from participation in Touring Class Judging. If other "B" parts are used on the engine such as carburetor, distributor, manifolds, etc., additional points would be lost but the car would not be excluded from Touring Class Judging.
.
I think that clearly defines the intent of what both National clubs. Having an engine other than an A or B engine and you would be excluded from participating. (Maybe this is why many here have posted their feelings strongly opposing discussions on this topic?)

Also, some are offering an opinion about the new Burtz engine, or adding seat belts, hydraulic brakes, etc. If you notice, there is no mention of prohibiting an owner from participating if their vehicle has an overdrive transmission, or hydraulic brakes, alternators, electronic ignition, 'forklift' carburetors, etc.


So in reality, exactly "what" causes this to be such a controversy? Is it a lack of respect for one another? Is it territorial encroachment? Is it perceived "ethics"? Is it the manner in which it is presented? WHY??

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Old 08-25-2010, 08:46 AM   #50
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

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So in reality, exactly "what" causes this to be such a controversy? Is it a lack of respect for one another? Is it territorial encroachment? Is it perceived "ethics"? Is it the manner in which it is presented? WHY??

.
It is a matter of respect in my opinion, As I mentioned before there are tons of places to get help with things like engine swaps and other major modifications. I can think of only 3 places that you can get help with stock Model A questions and this one seems to have the most "experts" with the quickest answers.

Specifically, Logan and Jordan are young pups. While, to me, they do have more Model A knowledge then perhaps 1/2 of those on this board, they still are head strong youth that have to realize that there are other opinions other then their own and this forum is not, by design, for heavily modified Model A's and yes a engine swap IS a major change.

I try to answer questions on modifications with the question why. There are many people that think changes have to be done to get a Model A to run and stop. The real truth is 90% of the mods to stock setup that are put into the car are not needed! Let me say that again "90% of mods to stock setup that are put into the car are not needed" There were no turn signals so how can you modify them? There were no seat belts, so how can you modify them? Get where I'm going?

If you want them just because you want them is one thing but if you think it makes things better I will attempt to explain why your thinking is flawed.

Ryan has said on several occasions here and on HAMB what this site was designed to be. He already has a modified site so this has to be different or it will be lost.

Guys don't get me wrong I have no problem with what you do to your cars. You fall into the "because I want to" group. But don't expect us to support major mods on this board.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:07 AM   #51
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

I usually read with interest, but don't participate in threads that go off subject when there is a "Joe vs. Dave" commentary. I find that I end up picking a side, and I am all for a person's right to express their opinion; so I just leave the thread alone.

With that said, I am a purist when it comes to any old or classic car. To me there is some thing about owning and operating a vehicle as it came from the factory. I gain knowledge and perspective of what a new car purchaser must have went through during those years. I also gain historical knowledge of that era, and the people making it possible. When the car is not original; I lose that perspective of history. What I see then is a person's work to build that hot rod or modified, and can appreciate it just for that. I also find it to be a challenge because with time, new technology makes things better and user friendly. So there is a mightly temptation to change in the names of ease, availability, cost, and safety.

A properly restored and maintained Model A is a good car. It will do what it was designed for (driving), and continue to do it without fail (the car has been doing that for 80-years). Hydraulic brakes, electronic ignitions, pinto engines, alternators, etc are not required to enjoy the Model A. However, I am not going to deny anyone from doing the above changes, and certain changes are no-brainers; take safety glass for instance.

I will admit I would try and discourage using an authentic Model A for a pinto engine installation; just for the fact I want to see as many original parts to stay original parts. But I can see the challenge and convenience; less vibration, fewer or no leaks, etc. Let's face it, the Model A is a challenge whether it is original or modified, and I AM NOT THE OWNER. That person can do what he wants, and in no way deserves any backlash for doing so. That statement I will defend.

I have found that each Model A owner has their own perspective on how their A should look and operate. I am no different; I use a diode instead of a cut-out, standard radiator hose clamps instead of original type (for some reason I can't get the originals to stop leaking), and a leakless seal on the water pump. My wheels are painted orange; even though I know they came from the factory black. I just decided since the car is black too, black wheels were just too much. Again, my own perspective.

I can't answer the orginal poster's question how and what is required to install a Pinto engine, but I do know there is information for him to do so (their are other forums that would probably produce more deatiled information), and if I were to tackle such a challenge; would ask the same question, but would be offended if the answers were of what has been replied in this thread. I respect the question being asked, and as my grandfather stated, "Don't say something that will get you a nasty answer unless you are prepared to accept it."

The above is just my humble opinion.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:19 PM   #52
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

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But don't expect us to support major mods on this board.
Dont expect you to support it, (not towards you mike) just dont drag my name threw the mud because i dont do it the way "henry did it".
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:51 PM   #53
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

Don't know if he was a Model A owner, but the words of Rodney King are worth noting here, "Can't we all just get along".
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:55 PM   #54
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

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Dont expect you to support it, (not towards you mike) just dont drag my name threw the mud because i dont do it the way "henry did it".
That's the point! The owner of the site has stated that how henry did it is what this board is for. It has nothing to do with what you or others do. As a matter of fact my lottery car (when I win the lottery) is a 1950's style hot rod with a Flat head V8. When I win the lottery I won't be asking questions on how to build on this site.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:09 PM   #55
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

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That's the point! The owner of the site has stated that how henry did it is what this board is for. It has nothing to do with what you or others do. As a matter of fact my lottery car (when I win the lottery) is a 1950's style hot rod with a Flat head V8. When I win the lottery I won't be asking questions on how to build on this site.
I'm not using v8, v6's, pintos, or even B engines. I use a bone stock A block, with babbit, with weber carb (just added 2 weeks ago), and electronics. I know its not "suppose" to be on this website, but lots of people on here use these modern, and era speed parts. I dont post a lot of threads because i know these types of threads are frowned upon. But when someone else asks a question, i going to awnser it. Was it my idea to post about a pinto engine? nope. But some how i get blamed for it in a way. I dont even own a pinto engine and i get criticized for something I dont even have. I just know about them, and the conversions because a lot of our friends use them down here. to be honest my dream engine has an era correct craigar OHV head, on an A block, with 3/4 race cam, counterbalanced, stromberg 81 carb, and a '39 tranny.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:10 PM   #56
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

Putting a Model A engine in a Pinto sounds like a better idea than putting a Pinto engine in a Model A. Maybe then you would see more Pinto's on the road.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:20 PM   #57
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

remember Johnny Cash's song about the Cadillac?
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:32 PM   #58
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remember Johnny Cash's song about the Cadillac?
Classic
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:55 PM   #59
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

You're going to need a 411 rear end to keep the RPMs up and take advantage of all that power. A friend in my club put a toyota 4 banger in his Model A and seems happy with it.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:37 PM   #60
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Default Re: Model A Fords and Ford 2.0 and 2.3 engines

like the man said "it's mine and i'll haul coal in it if I want to"
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